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Wendy
SFN Regular
USA
614 Posts |
 Posted - 11/10/2003 : 09:13:34 [Permalink]
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| I would love to vote for the best person for the job. I will actually vote for the best man to defeat Bush. They probably won't be the same person. Douglas Adams wrote in one volume of his "Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy" series that the person most qualified to run the universe doesn't want the job. The candidate we need won't run... but if he/she did that person would most likely (IMHO) be a Libertarian. |
Millions long for immortality who don't know what to do on a rainy afternoon.
-- Susan Ertz
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 11/10/2003 : 09:42:23 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Kil
quote:
Paladin:
If Nader runs again, I'll likely vote for him again.
Ya know what? Screw integrity! We need to get rid of Bush and voting for candidates who cannot win is not the way to get the job done. While all of those who voted libertarian or for Nadar can pat themselves on the back for not having voted for Bush, and not voting for the lesser of two evils, it is you who gave us Bush.
Let's please get rid of this psycho. Be pragmatic. After Bush is gone you can go back to being idealistic...
Kil,
I gotta disagree with you on this one. Nader was offset by Buchannan and a slew of other third party candidates. People voted for the person they thought would do the best job. Some of us comprimised those for a known evil (Gore) against a worse known evil (Bush). Nader wouldn't have garnered so many votes if people hadn't agreed with him. The only really questionable parts about the election was Florida. Disenfranchised voters, people not paying attention to the butterfly ballot, voting machines that had not been maintained per the manufacturers express written instructions all had lasting and profound effects on the 2000 Presidential election. It wasn't the fault of Nader voters.
I can't fault people for doing their Constitutional duty of voting their conscience. |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 11/10/2003 : 09:43:58 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Gorgo
If Republicans like Kerry are too far left, then the U.S. deserves extreme right wing criminals like Bush and Clinton.
Kerry is a Democrat, not a Republican. |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 11/10/2003 : 10:11:13 [Permalink]
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| Tell Kerry that. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 11/10/2003 : 12:01:50 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Gorgo
Tell Kerry that.
He is running as a Democrat. I think he knows it. I find your intimation that he is a Republican in Democrat clothing to be unsupported. He is a moderate Democrat. |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 11/10/2003 : 12:42:55 [Permalink]
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No, Democrats would not support NAFTA, Democrats would not support a Pentagon System that chokes the lifeblood out of the country, Democrats would support Universal Healthcare, Democrats would not support the so-called "Drug War," Democrats would not support such a large percentage of its citizens being imprisoned....
These people are Republicans. Or I don't understand the meaning of the term "Democrat." Maybe that's it. Republican must mean extreme Nazi, and Democrat must mean Republican.
Here's someone that approaches the idea behind what I think the word Democrat means:
http://www.kucinich.us/whichway.htm
Kucinich is a moderate Democrat. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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| Edited by - Gorgo on 11/10/2003 12:44:32 |
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 11/10/2003 : 13:09:24 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Renae
Paladin, it isn't you or me who elects the president. It's the middle-American swing vote--the voters who can be convinced that either the Republican or the Democrat best serves THEIR interest. What, honestly, are the chances that they're going to be convinced that Ralph Nader (who even I don't like) or *snicker* Lyndon LaRouche is Their Man? Hell, Senator Kerry is too far left of most of America right now. Do you honestly think that middle America will ever elect someone remotely radical?
Do I think we need campaign finance reform? Of course. We have the best government money can buy. How is voting for a random candidate--and essentially wasting your vote--going to further that cause? The two main political parties care little about token opposition; a small % doesn't 'send a message'. The vote is rendered essentially meaningless.
No one is saying there will be change right away, or even in years to come but sounds to me what you are saying is if we don't like what's going on now we are stuck with it. How is working for change within a party going to happen when it's the same dish rag inside out?
There must be a break away party.
If all the people I've talked to would really be brave enough to vote for what they think instead of fearing the 'other party' or the 'worse of two evils' will win then we wouldn't be having this discussion.
If ethics is important to a person then it's not meaningless to vote for whom you believe is going to do the best job than vote out of fear. The only other thing to do is not vote for anyone if the viable choices are not to ones liking. |
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@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
Posted - 11/10/2003 : 13:09:47 [Permalink]
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quote:
Here's someone that approaches the idea behind what I think the word Democrat means:
You don't really think that it's you alone who gets to define the meaning of words do you? The Democrats are what they are. It was was the Democrats that bombed the piss out of the Germans and Japanese in WWII by the same president that began social security. Lyndon Johnson began the Great Society and signed legislation and made policies that ended a hundred years of oppression against blacks yet he escalated the Vietnam War. No candidate is ever going to be the perfect shining icon of goodness you want. Kucinich has taken some interesting views on abortion for instance which a lot of women take issue with but is posibly not your area of concern. To abortion rights advocates Kucinich may be the Republican.
Think about it.
@tomic |
Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law!
Sportsbettingacumen.com: The science of sports betting |
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 11/10/2003 : 13:24:10 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Paladin
Dave, I agree that the best way to achieve reform is to work WITHIN the two major parties, and I have hope there are those within those organizations who are attempting to do so as we speak.
Ain't goina happen.
I guess a lot of people know about the recent California election. So as an example I'll use that. There was a very conservitive Repubican running, named McClintock. He refused to get out of the race to help Arnold 'win for the party'. To make a long story short, had Arnold not won, McClintocks political career would have been destoryed. And who knows how long people will remember what he did anyway. Is that supposed to be an example of how working within parties is going to help?
There are too many and too wide a range of ideas within each party. How on earth can they come together to get anything done? IMO, there has to be at least a third pary......maybe several to represent each of those fractions of thoughts.
For me the Libertarians do represent a part of each of the two main parties ideas that are what I want for the country too. |
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 11/10/2003 : 13:34:00 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Paladin
p.s. Thanks for the kind words, Snake. I gave the Libertarian Party a good examination in 2000, but overall, I was disappointed. While I share their desire to limit the role of government, I feel they take the principle much too far. Contrary to folks like Harry Browne, I believe government can play a substantial role in making life better and fairer for everyone without being too intrusive.
I actually don't wholly support any particular political party. I've searched and searched through resources, such as the excellent database at Politics1, and have yet to find any platform with which I totally agree. But I guess that's to be expected. Until I do find the perfect match, I'll continue to base my support on particular issues and particular candidates, regardless of what party they belong to.
You've welcome.
At least you did check it out. Unlike some, IMO, who don't even try but want to dismiss them as wierdos. I still respect you. So far!
I used to vote for the man not the party. Registered back and forth all the time in the different parties. Until I found the Libertarians. Of course I don't agree with all of their ideas completely. I don't know if it's possible to do that with any one but so far at least I know where they stand when a person is running as a Libertarian and they are the closest to what I do believe. Thanks for listening. |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 11/10/2003 : 13:54:27 [Permalink]
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No, I don't think that, I'm just trying to make a point. People paint these people as extremists, but Ralph Nader is a conservative capitalist. Dennis Kucinich is a conservative capitalist. People like Clinton and Bush are the extremists, with their disregard for international law and human life.
I agree with you that generally, all presidents have been a pretty sorry lot. Most of them criminals by their own definitions. That's the problem. That's why I'm saying that this time, right now, I've been asked to compromise and vote for a Democrat. Kucinich is the closest thing to what I understand Democratic ideals to be while staying within the Democratic Party. As far as I know, Nader night be supporting Kucinich. If he doesn't win, there is no Democratic Party for me.
Kucinich had views about abortion which have changed over the years. He is now pro-choice.
quote:
You don't really think that it's you alone who gets to define the meaning of words do you?
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I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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| Edited by - Gorgo on 11/10/2003 14:00:27 |
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@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 11/10/2003 : 15:40:53 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Valiant Dancer
I can't fault people for doing their Constitutional duty of voting their conscience.
Give me a break. I worked at the polls in this last California election. Some people are idiots. That coupled with the demographics of Florida, I think much of the falut was on the voters then. |
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 11/10/2003 : 15:51:12 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by filthy
Me, I'd have gone after the Taliban the day they started demolishing those two, magnificent statues of Budda. That's probably a good reason why I should never be given great authority.
I'll give you the authority Filthy.
Yes, you are so right. As a Buddhist it was most horrible for me to watch what they were doing. Whatever happened after that wasn't as drastic. Those people are monsters. |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 11/10/2003 : 15:55:51 [Permalink]
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I think it was before that, but on the other hand, who cares so long as he sincerely changed?
quote:
Originally posted by @tomic
Kucinich changed his abortion stance with the launch of his presidential campaign fooling no one that follows such things.
@tomic
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I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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Topic Locked
