|
|
|
Starman
SFN Regular
Sweden
1613 Posts |
 Posted - 11/21/2003 : 03:56:34
|
Michael Moore was touring Europe promoting his latest book and informing europeans about the stupidity of the American population in general and the stupidity of Bush in particular.
His stated goal is to get Bush voted out of office.
I was just wondering, does his actions really help this cause or is he preaching to the choir, alienating potential anti-B voters?
What do you think?
|
|
|
Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
 Posted - 11/21/2003 : 04:44:42 [Permalink]
|
| Supporting Bush? Are there people that are still supporting this criminal? |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
|
 |
|
|
Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 11/21/2003 : 04:58:40 [Permalink]
|
| The only ones I've seen that still supports Bush are the right wing fanatics at Rapture Ready. |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
|
|
|
Randy
SFN Regular
USA
1990 Posts |
Posted - 11/21/2003 : 05:19:51 [Permalink]
|
Maybe the fundies feel Bush will help bring the end of the world that much closer.
 |
"We are all connected; to each other biologically, to the earth chemically, to the rest of the universe atomically."
"So you're made of detritus [from exploded stars]. Get over it. Or better yet, celebrate it. After all, what nobler thought can one cherish than that the universe lives within us all?"
-Neil DeGrasse Tyson |
|
|
|
Starman
SFN Regular
Sweden
1613 Posts |
Posted - 11/21/2003 : 05:56:56 [Permalink]
|
While I doubt that Georgie Jr would win any popularity contest here at SFN, I'm not worrying about the smart voters. There are unfortunately a lot of intellectually disadvantaged voters and I'm not as certain about the Bush 2004 loss as I would like to be.
Which democratic candidates ( yes democratic, a vote for a third party candidate might just as well be a vote for Bush) can persuade enough former Bush voters to get elected.
Warning!
Do not use the following link if you are oversensitive to stupidity.
http://www.miserablemelodies.com/ram/ashkroft-eaglesoar.ram
(Yes it is Reichsführer-Asscroft himself.)
[edited for spelling] |
| Edited by - Starman on 11/21/2003 06:31:36 |
|
|
|
gezzam
SFN Regular
Australia
751 Posts |
Posted - 11/21/2003 : 06:33:04 [Permalink]
|
quote:
While I doubt that Georgie Jr would win any popularity contest here at SFN. I'm not worrying about the smart voters. There are unfortunately a lot of intellectually disadvantaged voters and I'm not as certain about Bush 2004 loss as I would like to be.
As I have said before, I think the main problem is with the media. They refuse to tell the complete truth. This morning I was flicking between the 5 news channels I have at home after I heard about the bombing in Istanbul. FOX News stayed away from it like the plague concentrating instead on the Michael Jackson chase and when there was any mention of the bombing or the protests in London it was short and sharp....
BBC on the other hand played the whole press conference with Bush and Blair including one British journalist asking the gem:
quote:
Question: What do you say to people who today conclude that British people have died and been maimed as a result of you appearing here today, shoulder to shoulder, with a controversial American president? And Mr President, if I could ask you, with thousands marching on the streets today here in London, a free nation, what is your conclusion as to why apparently so many free citizens fear you and even hate you?
President Bush: I would say freedom is beautiful. It is a fantastic thing to come to a country where people are able to express their views.
Question: So why do they hate you in such numbers?
President Bush: I don't know that they do. All I know is that people in Baghdad for example weren't allowed to do this up until recent history, and they are not spending a lot of time in North Korea protesting to current leadership. Freedom is a wonderful thing, and I respect that. I fully understand people don't agree with war, but I hope they agree with peace, and freedom, and liberty. I hope they care deeply about the fact that when we find suffering, and torture, and mass graves, we weep for the citizens that are being brutalised by tyrants. And finally, the prime minister and I have a solemn duty to protect our people, and that is exactly what I intend to do as the president of the United States - protect the people of my country.
No sign of that one on CNN or FOX. They continue to tow the Republican line. And a typical Dubya response….blah, blah freedom blah liberty blah peace. Anyway I have gone off on a tangent so back to the point.
Michael Moore is telling some things the media won't, airing some of America's dirty laundry if you will. All nations have skeletons in their closet. No doubt he has a definite liberal/progressive slant and his writings quite obviously show that, maybe the fact his books are doing so well is the old "supply and demand" people want (or need) to know the things he writes about. The more things go pear shaped with this bogus “War on Terror”, the more people are going to want information. With all the news available on the Internet it is harder and harder for governments to get way with lying to their constituents. He might be biased, but aren't we all concerning our particular beliefs?
Yes, he is a bit of a loony, but we need people like him, along with people like Noam Chomsky and John Pilger. They spare us from the ranting of even loonier people like Ann Coulter and O'Reilly. However, I must stress it is important to read the works of all authors objectively. Left and Right have a way of twisting statistics and words in their favour.
|
Mistakes are a part of being human. Appreciate your mistakes for what they are: precious life lessons that can only be learned the hard way. Unless it's a fatal mistake, which, at least, others can learn from.
Al Franken |
|
|
|
Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 11/21/2003 : 07:09:04 [Permalink]
|
All good points. It's funny, because I think of Chomsky as a conservative. I mean, he's not for things like attacking countries at will, supporting dictators who torture their people and attack other countries. You know? How did we get so far to the right that extreme criminals like George Bush looks reasonable to people? How did we get so far to the right that Bill Clinton and Howard Dean and Wesley Clark are seen as "the Left" and people like Kucinich and Moseley-Braun and Sharpton and even conservatives like Nader are seen as the extreme left?
I agree that it's the media. You already know that people like Kucinich and Nader aren't "electable." How do you know that? The media told you that. We even see it here. These people agree with Kucinich, but they're not going to vote for him because he's not "electable." Why? Because the media told you so. Nader cost "the left" the election. How do you know that? The media told you so. I voted for Nader because he was the only reasonable candidate. Had i not voted for Nader, I would have voted for the Socialist candidate. But that's the wacky thing to do! Why? The media told you so. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
|
|
|
|
Vegeta
Skeptic Friend
United Kingdom
238 Posts |
Posted - 11/21/2003 : 08:03:47 [Permalink]
|
I don't think that much of Bush as a person, but I did support the war on Iraq.
Is it true he onced waved at stevie wonder? |
What are you looking at? Haven't you ever seen a pink shirt before?
"I was asked if I would do a similar sketch but focusing on the shortcomings of Islam rather than Christianity. I said, 'No, no I wouldn't. I may be an atheist but I'm not stupid.'" - Steward Lee |
| Edited by - Vegeta on 11/21/2003 08:05:34 |
|
|
|
Starman
SFN Regular
Sweden
1613 Posts |
Posted - 11/21/2003 : 08:06:25 [Permalink]
|
quote:
Originally posted by gezzam
Yes, he is a bit of a loony, but we need people like him, ...
True(at least the we need people like him part), but I fear that the kind of accusations (however true and/or reasonable) being leveled by Moore and others might raise sympathy for Bush.
What will an average dullard voter find most believable. That the Chief of State, a christian, whom they trusted with their vote is a lying criminal simpleton, or that their honest patriotic president is being slandered by the evil unpatriotic leftist atheists.
Remember that old Hitler quote about big and small lies.
|
| Edited by - Starman on 11/21/2003 08:08:16 |
|
|
|
Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 11/21/2003 : 08:10:19 [Permalink]
|
| Michael Moore is a bit self-righteous for me. He's also a Clinton "liberal." I like his movies and I like his TV shows and I like him though. He probably wouldn't make so much money from them if he wasn't so passionate and angry about what he does, but I don't think it helps his cause very much. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
|
|
|
|
furshur
SFN Regular
USA
1536 Posts |
Posted - 11/21/2003 : 08:32:47 [Permalink]
|
gez said
quote:
As I have said before, I think the main problem is with the media. They refuse to tell the complete truth. This morning I was flicking between the 5 news channels I have at home after I heard about the bombing in Istanbul. FOX News stayed away from it like the plague concentrating instead on the Michael Jackson chase and when there was any mention of the bombing or the protests in London it was short and sharp....
I think the reason that the 'news' programs would concentrate on Micky Jackson and not the bombings or presidential speaches is even more disconcerting than you think. I think it is because people are more interested in Micky than real news. Lets face it new programs are actually entertanment programs that are looking for RATINGS. Ratings are what counts. The news programs definitly have their own slant but the biggest driver for the news content is getting the audience not to turn the channel. |
If I knew then what I know now then I would know more now than I know. |
|
|
|
gezzam
SFN Regular
Australia
751 Posts |
Posted - 11/21/2003 : 08:55:54 [Permalink]
|
quote:
Originally posted by Vegeta
I don't think that much of Bush as a person, but I did support the war on Iraq.
Do you still support it now? |
Mistakes are a part of being human. Appreciate your mistakes for what they are: precious life lessons that can only be learned the hard way. Unless it's a fatal mistake, which, at least, others can learn from.
Al Franken |
|
|
|
@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
Posted - 11/21/2003 : 10:50:50 [Permalink]
|
I actually saw Michael Moore on this book tour and he disappointed me compared to seeing Al Franken and Bill Maher last weekend. He was so light and fluffy rather than tight and intellectual. He was acting like a cheerleader and kept trying to work the crowd up with rhetoric which was entertaining in a sense but I didn't have as much I wanted to talk about after the Molly Ivins-Al Franken show.
The crowd was also very different at the Michael Moore gig. There were tons of protestors and displays of liberalism than the other speaking gigs I have seen in the last few weeks that were also liberals. Michael just brings that out in people I think and there is a need for Michaels type. Someone needs to keep people motivated but I prefer the dry irony of Maher and Franken and Ivins.
@tomic
|
Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law!
Sportsbettingacumen.com: The science of sports betting |
|
|
|
Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 11/21/2003 : 12:01:54 [Permalink]
|
He is what he is too. He's a factory guy that went out to right a wrong and ended up making some noise and some money doing it. He believes in what he's doing, but in my mind, like the rest of us, doesn't quite know what to do about it sometimes.
Like the Chuck Heston thing. Chuck Heston is not an intellectual, either. Yes, ask him tough questions, but why bother getting all self-righteous with him? |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
|
|
|
|
Vegeta
Skeptic Friend
United Kingdom
238 Posts |
Posted - 11/21/2003 : 17:20:54 [Permalink]
|
| I wouldn't say its going particularly well. but pulling out of Iraq would be the worst thing they could do IMO. |
What are you looking at? Haven't you ever seen a pink shirt before?
"I was asked if I would do a similar sketch but focusing on the shortcomings of Islam rather than Christianity. I said, 'No, no I wouldn't. I may be an atheist but I'm not stupid.'" - Steward Lee |
|
|
|
Tim
SFN Regular
USA
775 Posts |
Posted - 11/25/2003 : 07:25:19 [Permalink]
|
If anybody on this bulletin board has any doubt that Bush II doesn't have a better than average chance on winning the presidency in 2004 they should visit working class America. Go visit Moore's hometown. Go visit any town with a population less than one million in the midwest, or the south. Ask the guys that work in the factories, on the construction sites, and in the neighborhood shops.
These people are my peers, and while some are vehemently anti-GW, many more are just as strongly pro-GW. Dean was right with his comment about appealing to working class white men that drive pick ups with confederate flags. These guys have some sort of fantasy about the American way, and a docile, stay-at-home wife with three kids, like something straight out of the Clever household. These guys believe in the death penalty, and that killing a few innocent people is okay, just as long as the message gets out. These guys believe in GW's god, like it is some sacred rite that needs to be defended at all costs, but not actually supported in faith and action. These guys believe that the founding fathers were all good Christians that supported market Capitalism, and revered the modern American corporation above all else. These guys believe in their right to shoot a burglar in the back as he's running from their home with nothing more than a peice of bread in their theiving little hands. These guys really do think that the USA is the greatest nation in the world, and therefore has the right to force its will on others despite the death toll that may be required of those soon to be liberated ignorant masses. Unfortunately, these guys let their fantasies get in the way of reality. They buy into the Bush manifesto lock, stock and barrel.
Many more folks are just like my father--A staunch old fashioned Goldwater conservative. I just got home from spending a few days at his home. Nearly, the entire time I was there the television stayed on the Fox news network. In all that time, I never heard or saw a single liberal, or Democrat, or even a left leaning Republican appear in any other than a derisive mannor. And, this was called balanced news? I did, however, hear the New York Times and NPR being ridiculed for their bias, but have yet to see these media outlets not bend over backwards to give the other side a voice.
Let me add, my father is a strong Bush supporter, but can in no way be considered ignorant of current events, or less than intelligent, or less than fairly well educated.
On the positive side, I can say that I'm glad to see that people like Michael Moore, Al Franken, Noam Chomsky and Molly Ivins are receiving some national exposure. However, I am sad that much of this exposure is so slight, or so reproachful. |
"We got an issue in America. Too many good docs are gettin' out of business. Too many OB/GYNs aren't able to practice their -- their love with women all across this country." Dubya in Poplar Bluff, Missouri, 9/6/2004
|
|
|
 |
|
Topic Locked
