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Dog_Ed
Skeptic Friend
USA
126 Posts |
 Posted - 04/25/2001 : 13:41:25
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I've done a bit of reading on the subject of evil, and I am puzzled by the concept of an omnipotent God with special concern for mankind who nevertheless allows agonizing human suffering.
One standard justification used in the Christian community suggests that God uses human suffering as a means of leading humans toward moral perfection or redemption. But that's quite silly: If God is omnipotent and unthinkably wise, surely He could devise a humane method of teaching goodness. (To assume that God's purpose is unknowable and therefore we should just accept it is equally dumb--an ignorant shrug and a muttered "Insh'Allah, God's will.")
Some evangelical-ecstatic Christians say that an evil being, Satan, controls the world, and that mankind was cursed and fell into Satan's grasp after the Garden of Eden incident. However, this does not absolve God of responsibility: If a loving father allows a child rapist to live in his home and have access to his children, we would consider the father an evil barstid. Equally, if God allows Satan access to mankind when He could prevent it (being omnipotent and all), then I would certainly believe Him to be an evil barstid.
Remove a caring God from the picture, and you find that human suffering is, like it or not, a natural part of the Universe. I may not like the fact that an innocent newborn child happens to have an agonizing deformity, but it is not evil--just a fact of the Universe, like sunlight and thunder. True evil occurs when a sentient being inflicts needless suffering on other beings. Humans can be evil; even animals can be evil (for example, a case where two male chimpanzees beat a third to death), but unless we propose a God that is evil or insane, we cannot accept an omnipotent, loving God that co-exists with suffering.
--Dog Ed
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Tiptup
Skeptic Friend
USA
86 Posts |
Posted - 04/26/2001 : 01:17:02 [Permalink]
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quote:
Humans can be evil; even animals can be evil (for example, a case where two male chimpanzees beat a third to death), but unless we propose a God that is evil or insane, we cannot accept an omnipotent, loving God that co-exists with suffering.
The bible's view on this topic is that suffering and evil occurs because God wants it to. Basically all things, even those that are evil, are or will be used to glorify God. Many Christians don't like this idea but the bible makes God's providence clear.
Now the bible also says that God hates evil itself, even though He likes the purposes that He uses it for. This concept is more complicated and requires going into the ideas of free will, love, and mercy. Essentially though, the bible says that people have no right to complain about God being unfair, because nothing has the right to exist unless God first gives them that right, especially sinners.
My personal view (which is based on what the bible says) is that God sends love and evil to us for a real purpose. Some purposes we can see now, others most likely cannot be revealed to our finite minds even in eternity. Christians cannot escape hardships by appealing to God or casting out Satan or other demons. The bible promises that all humans will endure hardships.
The God of the bible does not "co-exist" with anything. It says that nothing can transpire with Him knowing it. I do not believe that God is evil or insanity, but that both come from Him. One must first be good and sane to recognize that which is evil and insane. I for one would be thankful that I could have even a little bit of the good stuff.
Tiptup
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I DON'T MAKE SENSE-I GOT MY PRIDE; DON'T NEED NO MEANING; I FEEL NO SHAME-I WILL NOT BELIEVE; I GOT NO CHOICE-I'M OUT OF CONTROL; AND I LOVE IT!! |
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Dog_Ed
Skeptic Friend
USA
126 Posts |
Posted - 04/28/2001 : 04:33:48 [Permalink]
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Well, perhaps, Tiptup. But to me a being from which evil comes is pretty much evil. As I mentioned, the argument that our finite minds cannot comprehend the purposes of God does not excuse Him from responsibility for evil.
The Bible is of course an amalgam of ancient Jewish writings, relevatory passages written by various individuals, collections of aphorisms, and latter-day reconstructions of mythical events, all translated first into Greek and then into a multitude of English versions, and of course other languages. It is one book among many that are claimed to be holy or inspired by one god or another. On the face of it, I can't think of a single Christian prophecy that has come to pass. Certainly Christ's promise that some who were living at the time of the Crucifixion would be alive for the Second Coming flopped.
All that said, Christians are neither worse nor better than most men. There are murders and geniuses, artists and charletons among them. I would not consider myself "better" than any particular individual, but I will trust fact before mysticism.
"Even Einstein put his foot in it sometimes" |
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