|
|
|
filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 01/10/2004 : 17:37:39 [Permalink]
|
quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.
Thanks for the explanations, filthy. And thanks to Randy for posting the Guardian story, which I'd heard hints of on the radio this afternoon.
One of the radio personalities who was discussing it said that it must have been cold when they re-measured the snake. 
By the way, filthy, is this an example of a "fat" snake, or do Burmese pythons always taper so quickly at the tail end? (Can you tell if that's even a Burmese?)
It is indeed a Burmese. It is about 20 feet long, perhaps a shade more, and weighs some 300 pounds. It's an obese female named Clyde, a very beautiful and gentle animal owned, and raised from an neonate, by a friend of mine. She is about 14 years old.
Eric intentionally keeps Clyde porky because he has children pose with her (for 5 bucks a pop, and if you forgot your camera, he has a Poloriod handy) and the extra weight will slow her down if she gets fractious. Fractiousness has yet to happen and they are very popular.
Eric and Clyde can be seen at the Raleigh Reptile and Exotic Animal Expo this-coming April.
The rapid tapering starting at the vent is an indication of a female. Males have a longer tail and the taper is slow due to the hemipenes being housed in it. However, with an obese snake, tail length figures by a sub-caudual scale count, or better yet, probing, is the sure way to tell.
Ask, my brother, and thou shalt recieve! 
 |
"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
|
 |
|
|
Woody D
Skeptic Friend
Thailand
285 Posts |
Posted - 01/10/2004 : 18:02:47 [Permalink]
|
quote:
Originally posted by filthy
I always reccommend buying one from a breeder and leave the wild specmins in the wild.
Yes, of course. Doubt I could catch one in the wild, I for one wouldn't know what I was getting. How old, how healthy, or any of that. That's best left to experts, thank you, so I would buy from a reputable source.
quote:
Your assignment for this coming spring is to beg, borrow, steal, or if all else fails, buy the Audubon Society Field Guide to North American Insects and Spiders.
I have the one for reptiles but let's just say creepy crawly things are not my thing. Sorry.quote:
Once aquired, go out in the brush with it, a magnifing glass, a thermos & sandwich, and a camera (optional), find a comfortable place to sit, then just watch closely.
Well, OK. I can do that, as long as I don't have to touch them or read about them.
In fact I have photographed a few. Just haven't observed their habits much. I do admit I have watched for a little while when a spider is spinning a web or has already done so and is just sitting there. We have several different kinds and some are weird looking. My backyard has a lot of vegatation, great for all those bug thingies.
quote:
It takes a little patience, and you might have to move a few times, but it's always rewarding. If you see a Rattlesnake or a Western Coral your only, medically signifcent venomous, just leave it alone. It won't attack you and makes for a good photo op, from a judicious distance, and a story to tell. While on that subject, in snake country, get in the habit of always looking where you put your feet and checking first before sitting down. Do not explore holes with your hand. It could be very painful, as I too-well know.
I'm afraid Filthy, I'm not as brave as you to stick my hand in a mysterious hole....thank you!
But seriously I do thank you for the reminder as I have a new hobby which involves hiking in the woods/wilderness. Actually have encountered what you've discribed, heard russling in bushes and do keep a lookout for 'unexpected' (Unexpected? in the mountians, duh!) wildlife.
Not long ago while starting to walk off a trail into some bushy area another hiker came by and said to be careful of snakes. On another occasion, I did see a dead body but that's another story.
And to get serious again, there is a story in the news now about a mountian biker who was attacked by a Mountian lion and another who is in serious condition in the hospital, they think from the same cat. The location, a forrest area, is not all that far from where I live. (30 miles away, give or take, not sure)
quote:
And if you see one of the cute & fluffies out there, remember: it can pass on the hanta virus and plague, endemic in our western rodents, and ain't they just the sweetist li'l thangs?
Now, isn't that wonderful. Yuk!
My teacher, who turned me on to the new adventures I'm doing, told me there are a lot of ticks in them thar hills too. I wanted to take my dog with me but he had some once and they are just the most disgusting creatures. Would rather not ad to the possibility of him getting any more.
quote:
Incidently, some entological observations in Thialand would also be rewarding. Rig up a white, cloth cylinder perhaps 18 inches in diameter and a couple of feet long, and suspend a low wattage light in it and hang it up somewhere. Turn out all other lights. Asian moths are well worth checking out, as are the dinurnal butterflies. A good camera is a must-have, here.
Well maybe. But I've seen some of the things they have there. 
I have a great Macro lenz, wasn't planning to take all my equipment this time. So much hassel, what with the 300mm (fixed), 80-200 zoom, etc., filters, tripod, a 100 rolls of film.... ok let me think about it. oy!
quote:
I'm not reccommending my personal favorites, but I have a weakness for spiders, scorps, and centapedes. Rookie bug-watchers should work themselves up to these gradually.
That's ok Filthy, I think we part company there. But thanks anyway. Let's stick to snakes. |
www.Carabao.net
As long as there's, you know, sex and drugs, I can do without the rock and roll.
Mick Shrimpton
|
| Edited by - Woody D on 01/10/2004 18:14:35 |
|
|
|
filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 01/10/2004 : 19:19:18 [Permalink]
|
quote:
That's ok Filthy, I think we part company there. But thanks anyway. Let's stick to snakes.
(Chuckle) I can dig it.
But really, when you see a bug, don't just look at it, but really look. Before long you will begin seeing some remarkable things, I promise.
Here's a hand-in-hole story:
I was a lad at this time, and we had moved to Warm Springs, GA. I was currently keeping a Canebrake Rattler (C. h. atricaudatus) and a Southern Copperhead (Agkistrodon c. contortrix) (I've been doing this insanity ever since I was old enough to know what a snake was). I wanted a Diamondback. I began to wander the palmettos, looking for one. And I soon found one. It was going down a gopher tortise hole and I rushed up and grabbed the tail. That snake's head shot by my hand and forearm like a rocket! It was my first really close call and it scared the rabbit tobacco and bubblegum out of me!
What happens is that when a snake enters a hole, it will often turn and the head will be only a short way in while the body continues to to slide down. It can easily strike. I was very lucky, as well as having good reflexes, not to get my first, hot bite that day. I put the good fortune down to the snake's not being able to effectivly establish it's anchor coil, necessary for a really hard strike.
I captured the snake (to my long-suffering mother's dismay) and it was with me until I joined the service, when I donated it and three others to the Grant Park Zoo in Atlanta.
You do not have to go through this nonsense in the field; not as long as you think before you grab.
I would still like to see some pics of Asian insects. Bugs are not only neat, most of them, anyway, but they are by far our evolutionary masters.
|
"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
|
|
|
|
Woody D
Skeptic Friend
Thailand
285 Posts |
Posted - 01/10/2004 : 21:03:59 [Permalink]
|
quote:
Originally posted by filthy
But really, when you see a bug, don't just look at it, but really look. Before long you will begin seeing some remarkable things, I promise.
Funny you should talk about REALLY looking.
Much of my training and education is in the field of art. Trust me, I see all sorts of things that I think most average persons don't ever notice in their day to day lives. The world, not only of bugs or any one subject but all things, is a fantastic vision of colors and shapes, sounds and textures. It's overwhelming. I'm happy to know there some people who do appriecate that.
Getting on soap box, in this computer age I see people rushing around in a hurry to get to 'who knows where?', not paying attention to anyone let alone the small things around them. What ever happened to, 'Take Time to Smell the Roses'? Why is everyone in such a hurry?
quote:
I captured the snake (to my long-suffering mother's dismay) and it was with me until I joined the service, when I donated it and three others to the Grant Park Zoo in Atlanta.
You do not have to go through this nonsense in the field; not as long as you think before you grab.
That's why they call it expierence!
quote:
I would still like to see some pics of Asian insects. Bugs are not only neat, most of them, anyway, but they are by far our evolutionary masters.
Funny you should mention evolution.
When 1st I started liking snakes it was just because they were interesting and beautiful but as I learned more I found out they are one of natures most evolved creatures, which only solidified my love for them. |
www.Carabao.net
As long as there's, you know, sex and drugs, I can do without the rock and roll.
Mick Shrimpton
|
| Edited by - Woody D on 01/10/2004 21:07:19 |
|
|
|
Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 01/10/2004 : 21:27:13 [Permalink]
|
Well, looks like I hit the Google lottery, by happening across a photo of a snake you know well. That's neat-o.
Interesting about tail tapering, thanks.
On another note, is this an albino retic? |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
|
|
|
Woody D
Skeptic Friend
Thailand
285 Posts |
Posted - 01/11/2004 : 00:23:32 [Permalink]
|
quote:
Originally posted by filthy
Males have a longer tail and the taper is slow due to the hemipenes being housed in it.
Been meaning to post this, so you've given me a good oppertunity.
A cartoon I saw many years ago 'The Far Side'. (you know he did many of them with a snake theme)
This one always makes me laugh:
Snakes don't have tails........
They are tails.
And since Filthy likes spiders so much....I still have this Far Side cartoon taped up in my work room:
Two spiders sitting near a big web they just weaved across the bottom of a slide in a playground.
The caption is: (hope I'm quoting correctly but you get the idea)
"If we play our cards right, we'll eat for a week."
Also wanted to add, about seeing the beauty of different kinds of bugs. There's this beetle in my yard, have never seen a live one and only one dead one after all these years but many times there have been parts of it, I think wings, laying around that have the most incrediable green irridesent color. The bug is about an inch, the shape could probably be a model for the Egyptian scarab. I think it burries into the ground, that's where I've seen holes and the green. |
www.Carabao.net
As long as there's, you know, sex and drugs, I can do without the rock and roll.
Mick Shrimpton
|
| Edited by - Woody D on 01/11/2004 00:44:11 |
|
|
|
filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 01/11/2004 : 03:49:21 [Permalink]
|
quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.
Well, looks like I hit the Google lottery, by happening across a photo of a snake you know well. That's neat-o.
Interesting about tail tapering, thanks.
On another note, is this an albino retic?
A Retic? Hmm. I'll give it a firm 'probably' -- it's an Asian, anyway. Hard to say really, as albinos show washed out, piss-yellow markings at best. Also, Retic's markings can vary wildly from snake to snake. Pretty though, for a whitey.
The pet trade being what it is, albinism is being bred for in many species, notably Boids, King and Milk, and Ratsnake species. The hot snakes are also not immune from this idiotcy. I once boarded a large Mojave Rattler (Crotalus s. scutalutus) for a friend that was white, with faint, yellow markings, and looked like hell, to me, anyway. Even though it's a species I'm interested in, I was glad to see the ugly thing leave. If you've seen one white snake, you've pretty much covered the subject.
I recall reading, a couple of decades ago, about an albino Python -- don't remember the species -- that sold for several thousand dollars. From there, it seemed that everybody (except me) wanted one and the breeders hit the ground running. Today, they are almost a drug on the market and the prices are low.
I have found exactly one albino in the field, an Eastern Kingsnake. It was about 2 feet long and, what with the resident Watersnake and Red-tailed Hawk population in the area, I was amazed that it had lived long enough to get that big. I put it back down and wished it luck.
Snake, I have that spider 'toon and get a chuckle every time I look at it. It's a great one. The caption reads: "If we pull this off, we'll eat like kings."
The beetle could be any of several things; Junebugs and Japanese Beetles come to mind. But this is something I couldn't ID without the book and seeing the subject. I love to observe them and have kept Trantulas and Scorpions, and even a Madagascar Cockroach colony, but I'm not really all that much of a bug man. I have a great interest, but lack the passion. I'd rather be floundering around in the swamp trying to catch some stupid moccasin that nobody really wants, including myself.
|
"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
|
|
|
|
Woody D
Skeptic Friend
Thailand
285 Posts |
Posted - 01/13/2004 : 03:54:42 [Permalink]
|
quote:
Originally posted by filthy
Snake, I have that spider 'toon and get a chuckle every time I look at it. It's a great one. The caption reads: "If we pull this off, we'll eat like kings."
Why of course, that's IT. Haven't been in the back room for a long time but now that you've said it, I do recall. Sorry and thanks.
Have been so busy didn't even turn on the computer at all yesterday, that's why some replies will be late.
But the lord works in mysterious ways or this is a big coincidence, today we were in a book store looking for some books that were requested for us to bring to Thailand when we go and what do you think I saw on the sale table?
A Far Side book. Thumbed through it and what do you think I saw?
Another spider cartoon.....thought of you right away. Bought the book too.
It's too cold in here now to go get it.....want to quote it correctly (this time)
So stay tunned.
c ya,
Snake
quote:
I'd rather be floundering around in the swamp trying to catch some stupid moccasin that nobody really wants, including myself.
Well that's just wonderful, Filthy!!!
That's my motto too.
Live dangerously, LOL. |
www.Carabao.net
As long as there's, you know, sex and drugs, I can do without the rock and roll.
Mick Shrimpton
|
|
|
|
Woody D
Skeptic Friend
Thailand
285 Posts |
Posted - 02/03/2004 : 23:02:51 [Permalink]
|
quote:
Originally posted by Woody D
A Far Side book. Thumbed through it and what do you think I saw?
Another spider cartoon.....thought of you right away
Sorry I couldn't find the cartoon and am bad at telling jokes unless I remember the words exactly. So....later for that.
But guess what?
Today I went to this used book store where I usualy get my ceramic books for class but I was looking for another different book instead.
'The 10 Things You Can't Say in America' by Larry Elder. I always go directly to the art section but this time had to go ask for the book, he didn't have it. But as I turned to walk away, what do I see? A whole bunch of books about SNAKES and reptiles. So cool! Never knew the guy had so many and it's just a tiny store. Couldn't afford to buy the 3 that I most wanted but did get the less expensive of the lot, Poisionous Snakes of the World. It has charts and photos. I like the way it's written too, as if the person really cares about the snakes. Has two pages on how to avoid geting bitten.
Just had to tell you. BTW, I learned that there are 3 catorgories not the 2 I thought of poisions. Nuralogical, Hemotilogical, AND cartiologiacl poisions. Didn't know about the 3rd. Also learned that sometimes the poision isn't just one or the other but can be mixed together.
Did you know that Sea Snakes loose teeth when they bit you? |
www.Carabao.net
As long as there's, you know, sex and drugs, I can do without the rock and roll.
Mick Shrimpton
|
| Edited by - Woody D on 02/03/2004 23:09:28 |
|
|
|
filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 02/04/2004 : 05:01:52 [Permalink]
|
Sounds to me like you're having a blast!
All serpent venoms contain a mix of toxins. They vary in the percentages. The big Bitis, such as the Puff, have a dreadful mix of almost everything, notably myo (muscular) and cardiotoxins. The aforementioned terrificus has mostly neurotoxins, as do the sea snakes.
All snake lose teeth when they bite. The teeth are set quite loosely in the jaws, and the teeth are shed on a regular basis, just like their skins. Lizards and crocodilians also shed and replace their teeth. For a couple of years, I kept a huge Gaboon Viper (Bitis gabonica rhinocerous), and I was saving it's shed fangs (I retrieved these by saving the feces and disolving them in alcohol). Her (a female) fangs approached some 1.5 inches. I've heard of longer, and believe it.
I'm not familiar with the book you've found. I'll have to look it up. Another you might enjoy is: Rattlesnake, Portrait of a Predator by Manny Rubio. It's well written and accurate, with excellent photography, and aimed at the layman.
If you wish, I'll give you a site with bite photos. WARNING: Snakebite can be gruesome. And like a good marriage, a bite lasts a lifetime. My right arm is weak and the hand function is a bit impared from bites. The hand gets cold very quickly in only mild weather. I think I've gotten off lucky. And I've become very careful in these, my declining years.
|
"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
|
|
|
|
Woody D
Skeptic Friend
Thailand
285 Posts |
Posted - 02/05/2004 : 01:35:02 [Permalink]
|
quote:
Originally posted by filthy
Sounds to me like you're having a blast!
Well, it would have been nice if I could have gotten more of the books, you never know when 'what' will be there or not.
The guy is nice, gives a discount if you pay cash but even still the Encyclopedia of Snakes was $40.
quote:
All serpent venoms contain a mix of toxins.
So far I've only flipped through the book but yes, I do believe that is what it said. Guess you know what you are talking about.
BTW, the book is:
"A Manual for the Use by U. S. Forces".
Department of the Navy Bureau of Medicine and Surgery
It said the 1st edition was June 30 1962, mine was revised on Nov. 1 1965.
quote:
All snake lose teeth when they bite.
I'll have to read further but this page was about how to determain what kind of snake bit you buy looking at the marks. Between the other two kinds it said it was difficult to tell due to various factors but that the Sea Snake was different for reasons described before.
(no time to quote exact paragraph or find page....will do later)
quote:
I'm not familiar with the book you've found. I'll have to look it up. Another you might enjoy is: Rattlesnake, Portrait of a Predator by Manny Rubio. It's well written and accurate, with excellent photography, and aimed at the layman.
See above remarks.
And thanks for the recomendations. Layman huh? Ok, just for you Filthy I won't get upset with that remark....even though I might be!
quote:
If you wish, I'll give you a site with bite photos. WARNING: Snakebite can be gruesome.
Don't worry, my mother was a nurse. LOL, you don't know what I grew up hearing about. Bring it on.
My x-sister is a nurse and used to work at a famous burn hosptial near where I live. Don't even want to think about the horrors she saw. She also once told me about a big macho biker guy who was bitten by a Black Widow. Easy to cure, but he didn't want to go to the hosptial, let's just say he died and it wasn't pretty.
quote:
And like a good marriage, a bite lasts a lifetime. My right arm is weak and the hand function is a bit impared from bites. The hand gets cold very quickly in only mild weather. I think I've gotten off lucky. And I've become very careful in these, my declining years.
You think it could also be arthritis, I have it and have some of the same symptoms. Always cold too.
Hey, Filthy, could you (or your blood) be a donor for snake bit anti-venom? |
www.Carabao.net
As long as there's, you know, sex and drugs, I can do without the rock and roll.
Mick Shrimpton
|
|
|
|
filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 02/05/2004 : 03:43:35 [Permalink]
|
Okely Dokely, as Ned said to Homer.
Here's some from The Southeast Hot Herp Association (I‘m a charter member). Click on the pics to enlarge:
http://www.venomousreptiles.org/libraries/Snakebite%20Photos
One of my bites is here; a hit from a sub-adult Southern Copperhead, three years ago this April. It was a minor bite that only put my right arm out of whack for a couple of weeks. I wrote, it up, pics and text, for the association, as there are many visitors that are interested in how a highly experienced, hot snake man gets stupid. I'll add the link to the text a little later.
These next are from tongs.com, a snake-handling tool company -- also friends of mine. Here, it gets a little nasty, although I see they've trimmed the volume back a bit. Dana used to have some real doozies in there.
http://www.tongs.com/gallery/index.php?G=snakebites
There have been a lot of amputations due to snakebite, and I'm lucky to still have a full roster of digits. Indeed, sometimes I count them, just to be sure.
No, my blood can't be used for serum, although I know some people whose can. These are the ‘milkmen' on commercial venom lines. They get bitten a lot! I am also acquainted with Bill Haast, who pioneered personal immunity. Emergency serum has been made with his blood on several occasions.
This is done with carefully measured injections of Elapid venom. All, of my bites are from Viperids, which, due to tissue destruction, the venom is not suitable for this purpose. Also, the venom was measured by the snakes, not science. Snakes are not to be trusted with this sort of thing.
Re: your book. I hate to say this, but it is way out of date. Also, military manuals (I seem to remember seeing this one when I was in the service, though I'm not sure) tend to only hit the high spots. But, it'll give you a pretty good overview.
As for IDing the snake by looking at the bite, no, not necessarly. Some species chew, and this happened to me, much to my astonishment, with a juvenile Cottonmouth. Viperids are not known for chewing.
A sea snake bite is little different from that of any other Elapid (there are some current studies that are suggesting they are not Elapids, but it's not yet conclusive, one way or the other). I lack hands-on experience, but from my reading, they use the lunge, bite, and often hang-on method common to Cobras, rather than a strike like a Viper.
These are wholly aquatic, only coming ashore to lay eggs, and found only in the Pacfic Ocean. I'd think a bite from one would be pretty obvious simply from where it was recieved.
Sea snakes tend to be very mild tempered and bites are rare.
Due to old injuries, mainly from the service, I'm full of arthritis. Oddly enough, some venoms are being studied as a medication for it, notably, my old friends, the Copperheads and some other Agkistrodon species. From what I hear, it looks promising. I hope so, although getting another dose of venom is not one of my priorties.
|
"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
|
|
|
 |
|
|
|
Topic Locked
