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Maverick
Skeptic Friend
Sweden
385 Posts |
 Posted - 01/31/2004 : 03:10:38 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by filthy
And merrily we roll along on the road to organized ignorance. 
An ignorant people is, I suppose, the dream of most leaders. Nothing is easier than to control a people that has been dumbed down. If you can induce fear into their minds as well, then you're all set. |
"Life is but a momentary glimpse of the wonder of this astonishing universe, and it is sad to see so many dreaming it away on spiritual fantasy." -- Carl Sagan |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 01/31/2004 : 09:46:58 [Permalink]
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| You know, and this is an unfortunate consequence of the evolution/creation debate, many biology text books omit the word "evolution" already. Not wishing to ruffle any feathers, some primary education text book publishers are playing it safe. They do describe evolution, however. At least in the books I have seen. And they don't present the creationist case. (As if there is a creationist case that is well supported and has earned the right to be taught as science.) |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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gezzam
SFN Regular
Australia
751 Posts |
Posted - 01/31/2004 : 10:25:03 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Maverick
quote:
Originally posted by filthy
And merrily we roll along on the road to organized ignorance.
An ignorant people is, I suppose, the dream of most leaders. Nothing is easier than to control a people that has been dumbed down. If you can induce fear into their minds as well, then you're all set.
Exactly right, would it be to cynical of me to say that the worlds media help with this.
Look at the highest selling mags and highest rating television shows. Popular Science and Discovery Channel lag a long way behind Who magazine and FOX News.
Supply and demand I suppose |
Mistakes are a part of being human. Appreciate your mistakes for what they are: precious life lessons that can only be learned the hard way. Unless it's a fatal mistake, which, at least, others can learn from.
Al Franken |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 01/31/2004 : 13:37:28 [Permalink]
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Gezzam wrote:quote:
Look at the highest selling mags and highest rating television shows. Popular Science and Discovery Channel lag a long way behind Who magazine and FOX News.
Not that it much matters, since the Discovery Channel is almost a constant parade of "Monster Garage," "Monster House," "American Choppers," etc. now. And when the Learning Channel isn't broadcasting wedding shows, it's showing "Trading Spaces," "Clean Sweep," and other home-improvement "game shows."
The History channel has taken to replaying "Modern Marvels," and I caught the Science Channel recently offering "Junkyard Wars." While the last is one of my faves, it certainly is pretty shallow on the science.
Of course, all four of these cable channels are owned by the same people, so it's probably little wonder that they're all slowly going down the tubes. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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gezzam
SFN Regular
Australia
751 Posts |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 02/04/2004 : 10:29:36 [Permalink]
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And according to this and other stories, the governor of Georgia is attempting to salvage his state's science standards by talking about how evolution needs to be taught as "an academic theory," along with other alternative theories.
The problem is, of course, that there are no scientific alternative theories to evolution at this moment. To truly "balance" evolution with the teaching of something else, that "something else" needs to be just as well-verified and predictive as evolution. Nothing, not one different idea, can meet that standard today.
The governor is obviously confused about what the word "theory" means. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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lovekraft0
New Member
USA
6 Posts |
Posted - 02/04/2004 : 15:53:39 [Permalink]
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| One bright note here - I caught a show today on Alabama Public Television that explained evolution very clearly. It broke it down to micro and macro evolution, explained and demonstrated how micro-evolution works, applied the same principles to macro-evolution, and even touched on the controversy, saying that while few will argue against micro-evolution (since it is observable), most of the furor surrounding macro-evolution stems from a lack of understanding of minor variations over geologic time. Creation was never mentioned. I was delighted to see it here, but I fear that some poor fool's job will be lost if the Fundies find out. |
...extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence... |
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Maglev
Skeptic Friend
Canada
65 Posts |
Posted - 02/05/2004 : 12:18:22 [Permalink]
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Well, score one for the good guys;
Ga. School Chief Puts 'Evolution' Back in Science
Still doesn't excuse the original idea, but at least shows that "expressing outrage" at something sometimes works. |
Maglev
"The awe it inspired in me made the awe that people talk about in respect of religious experience seem, frankly, silly beside it. I'd take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance any day."
--Douglas Adams, on evolutionary biology. |
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the_ignored
SFN Addict
2562 Posts |
Posted - 02/05/2004 : 23:56:41 [Permalink]
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Gee, I hope they don't ever remove evolution because they think that the evolutionists are "possessed"!
Get a load of this, from "Rapture Ready":
This post has got to be the most warped thing I've ever seen! (It's in "Members Only" though, unfortunatly!)
quote:
[color=blue]"Based on that comment I would say at that point of time you were no longer talking to the man that you see, but rather his demon."[/color]<--"hopemail" quoting some guy talking about another crazy group, the "scientologists", the irony in this thread is almost too much to bear, much less the usual insanity!
"Amen!! That's what I thought too."
I agree, and glad to see there are others whose first thought is this...
a week ago I went to the mountains of Colorado with some friends, one of whom preaches. He's a creationist big into 'trying to' refute evolutionists, I say 'trying to' because he's rather wishy-washy in his arguments. I told him, I'd rather argue with a brick that an evolutionist, a brick is more pliable.
I said to him, "you know why you creationists hardly ever look good in an argument with an evolutionist?" "No, why?" he asked. I said, "because evolution's premise is the repudiation of the existence of G-D. Therefore it's excelling is very important to satan, therefore evolutionists, particularly the fervent ones, are closely watched over and protected by satan. he gives them the belief system and arguments to discredit wishy-washy counter arguments, probably assigns a personal imp to plant thoughts and words in times of debate. Creationists end up arging of their own limited resources against timeless spiritual entities with unlimited resources for lies and arguments."
I asked him, "you ever heard of a creationist binding the evolutionist's demon before engaging the evolutionist?" (he's of that anti-spirit denomination, went right over his head). "No, actually, I never have", he said. I told him, "that's the trouble, none do, in fact it doesn't even occur to them, I've never heard of one doing it." I told him to try it the next time he's confronted,.. and, at the same time, ask the HS to give you the thoughts and words you need. "You'll find out that even the best of evolutionists become disarmed when his protective demon is gagged and a particularly poignant point is raised in the discussion (as planted by the HS)."
Then, when asked by someone else:
quote:
[color=blue]Originally posted by Heracles
Binding demons? Please tell me you're not serious![/color]
I'm quite serious...
Then, in another post, someone said:
quote:
A very long time ago I thought demons were mythology.
Now I know better!
mercyme
and, now, for a humor break, from another post on that thread, by some guy named "LaMontre"
quote:
Thats the one common denominator among "religious" unbelievers. They are hypocritical and logically inconsistant. And really, that is your best weapon in witnessing to them.
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>From: enuffenuff@fastmail.fm
(excerpt follows):
> I'm looking to teach these two bastards a lesson they'll never forget.
> Personal visit by mates of mine. No violence, just a wee little chat.
>
> **** has also committed more crimes than you can count with his
> incitement of hatred against a religion. That law came in about 2007
> much to ****'s ignorance. That is fact and his writing will become well
> know as well as him becoming a publicly known icon of hatred.
>
> Good luck with that fuckwit. And Reynold, fucking run, and don't stop.
> Disappear would be best as it was you who dared to attack me on my
> illness knowing nothing of the cause. You disgust me and you are top of
> the list boy. Again, no violence. Just regular reminders of who's there
> and visits to see you are behaving. Nothing scary in reality. But I'd
> still disappear if I was you.
What brought that on? this. Original posting here.
Another example of this guy's lunacy here. |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 02/06/2004 : 00:18:19 [Permalink]
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| When I'm loosing an argument to a creationist, I prefer to cut the head off of a chicken and wave it over my head three times. Never fails... |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Renae
SFN Regular
543 Posts |
Posted - 02/06/2004 : 05:55:12 [Permalink]
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quote:
Creationists end up arging of their own limited resources against timeless spiritual entities with unlimited resources for lies and arguments."
That literally made me spew coffee on my keyboard!  I'm not just a little brown-haired girl who spends too much time on the Internet...I'm a timeless spiritual entity! And since I have unlimited resources, I must win every argument I'm ever in. LOL
Okay, I might have to break my "no deliberately starting arguments on the Internet" rule and register at Rapture Ready. If I even can. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 02/06/2004 : 07:24:18 [Permalink]
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The way I read it, Renae, you aren't a timeless spiritual entity, but you are possessed by one.
The best part was the last paragraph:quote:
I asked him, "you ever heard of a creationist binding the evolutionist's demon before engaging the evolutionist?" (he's of that anti-spirit denomination, went right over his head). "No, actually, I never have", he said. I told him, "that's the trouble, none do, in fact it doesn't even occur to them, I've never heard of one doing it." I told him to try it the next time he's confronted,.. and, at the same time, ask the HS to give you the thoughts and words you need. "You'll find out that even the best of evolutionists become disarmed when his protective demon is gagged and a particularly poignant point is raised in the discussion (as planted by the HS)."
Bolding mine, of course. This person has never seen anyone "bind" an evolutionist's demon, has never even heard of anyone doing so, and yet states as fact that "evolutionists become disarmed" when it is done.
Now that is faith. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Paladin
Skeptic Friend
USA
100 Posts |
Posted - 02/06/2004 : 19:10:38 [Permalink]
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To be fair, I don't believe these nutcases represent the majority or mainstream of those who hold creationist beliefs. These guys are seriously deluded - f***ing certifiable.
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Paladin |
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Randy
SFN Regular
USA
1990 Posts |
Posted - 02/06/2004 : 20:29:28 [Permalink]
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Brings to mind one of my favorite Sagan quotes,
"Life is but a momentary glimpse of the wonder of this astonishing universe, and it is sad to see so many dreaming it away on spiritual fantasy". |
"We are all connected; to each other biologically, to the earth chemically, to the rest of the universe atomically."
"So you're made of detritus [from exploded stars]. Get over it. Or better yet, celebrate it. After all, what nobler thought can one cherish than that the universe lives within us all?"
-Neil DeGrasse Tyson |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 02/07/2004 : 08:38:36 [Permalink]
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Pretty much predictably, cooler and wiser heads have prevailed over yonder in the Peach State. 
quote:
"After Georgia being the laughing stock of the world for the last week over that foolishness, I'm glad she backed off," said Bobby Kahn with the Georgia Democratic Party. "It doesn't help us attract business, it doesn't help improve education and when we focus on that kind of thing instead of reducing class sizes, we're going in the wrong direction."
http://www.macon.com/mld/macon/news/breaking_news/7882570.htm
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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