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byhisgrace88
Formerly "creation88"
USA
166 Posts |
 Posted - 02/14/2004 : 13:49:15 [Permalink]
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quote:
C88, even if you are only 15, posting from Victimland won't get you very far with me. Nobody, least of all me, is persectuing you, oppressing you, or judging you.
I am not trying to become a victim. I'm sorry if it came across as if I was. I just am frustrated with some things and I wanted to say them.
quote:
You simply don't know what you don't know, and you're rapidly reaching the point where your age no longer excuses your ignorance
Is this a joke?!?!?! Did you seriously just call me ignorant? What on earth in my post made you say I was an "ignorant fool"? On top of all that you called us pathetic.
You know, you are rapidly increasing to the point where your age does not account for being a jerk for no reason. You must just be a bitter guy looking to un-leash on anyone.
I did not launch a personal attack against you. I stated many frustrations I have in the way EVERYBODY communicates with me when they here I am a christian. And you came back call me and all my fellow christians who deserve no respect. Also telling me that I do not represent christians. I mean EXCUSE ME?!?! What right do you have to tell me what I represent. I do represent christians the best I know how. And you represent the bitter angry population. And I must say you do it quite well. |
Indeed, if we consider the unblushing promises of reward and the staggering nature of the rewards promised in the Gospels, it would seem that Our Lord finds our desire, not too strong, but too weak. We are half-hearted creatures, fooling about with drink and sex and ambition when infinite joy is offered us, like an ignorant child who wants to go on making mud pies in a slum because he cannot imagine what is meant by the offer of a holiday at the sea. We are far too easily pleased.-- C.S. Lewis |
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byhisgrace88
Formerly "creation88"
USA
166 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2004 : 13:51:57 [Permalink]
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nice i spelled "hear" h-e-r-e.......smooth
is there any way to go back and edit posts you made? |
Indeed, if we consider the unblushing promises of reward and the staggering nature of the rewards promised in the Gospels, it would seem that Our Lord finds our desire, not too strong, but too weak. We are half-hearted creatures, fooling about with drink and sex and ambition when infinite joy is offered us, like an ignorant child who wants to go on making mud pies in a slum because he cannot imagine what is meant by the offer of a holiday at the sea. We are far too easily pleased.-- C.S. Lewis |
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Trish
SFN Addict
USA
2102 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2004 : 14:23:48 [Permalink]
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| c88 the little piece of paper across the top of your post with the pencil on it will allow you to edit your posts. Click and you should open the edit window with your post in it. |
...no one has ever found a 4.5 billion year old stone artifact (at the right geological stratum) with the words "Made by God."
No Sense of Obligation by Matt Young
"Say what you will about the sweet miracle of unquestioning faith. I consider the capacity for it terrifying and vile!"
Mother Night by Kurt Vonnegut, Jr.
They (Women Marines) don't have a nickname, and they don't need one. They get their basic training in a Marine atmosphere, at a Marine Post. They inherit the traditions of the Marines. They are Marines.
LtGen Thomas Holcomb, USMC
Commandant of the Marine Corps, 1943
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2004 : 14:44:39 [Permalink]
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Creation88, the edit button on a post looks like a little piece of paper with a pencil on it. It's right next to the button with "PM" on it. Putting on my "Moderator Hat" for a moment, I would ask that when you edit a post, you add a little note on the end explaining why. "Edited to correct typos" would be a sufficient note for the hear/here problem. There are examples of other people doing this all over the forums, if you look. [Moderator Hat Off]
While I don't agree with ConsequentAtheist's tone (or choice of words), I do agree that you, C88, do not - and can not - represent Christians as a whole, nor should you try. It is a safe bet that one of the other Christians here on SFN these days disagrees with you about some point of doctrine or other, and would feel rather upset were you to presume to speak for them about it. Just like, I'm guessing, you probably don't feel comfortable with the idea that the Pope might speak for you, as a Christian (especially considering the Pope has declared that he sees no conflict between Christianity and evolution, which he says is "more than just a theory").
This is one of the "problems" with Christianity I tried to get across in my big analogy to Robb. There are literally hundreds of different Christian sects, and except for a very few and limited points, any one person who says something on behalf of all of Christendom will invariably annoy some other Christians.
Finally, although it seems obvious that ConsequentAtheist's remarks were intended to be deeply offensive (which isn't something that I would condone), I would suggest that returning the insults, while perhaps satisfying, won't do much either to improve his opinion of you, or to continue the parts of this thread which might be worthwhile. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2004 : 14:46:47 [Permalink]
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Seems I was beaten to the edit button. That's what I get for rambling on. Thanks, Trish.  |
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byhisgrace88
Formerly "creation88"
USA
166 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2004 : 15:29:16 [Permalink]
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quote:
Finally, although it seems obvious that ConsequentAtheist's remarks were intended to be deeply offensive (which isn't something that I would condone), I would suggest that returning the insults, while perhaps satisfying, won't do much either to improve his opinion of you, or to continue the parts of this thread which might be worthwhile
I did realize this after I had posted and cooled off a bit. I would like to say sorry, to you consequentathiest if I offended you.
quote:
I do agree that you, C88, do not - and can not - represent Christians as a whole, nor should you try. It is a safe bet that one of the other Christians here on SFN these days disagrees with you about some point of doctrine or other, and would feel rather upset were you to presume to speak for them about it. Just like, I'm guessing, you probably don't feel comfortable with the idea that the Pope might speak for you, as a Christian (especially considering the Pope has declared that he sees no conflict between Christianity and evolution, which he says is "more than just a theory").
I realize this. I am not trying to represent christianity as a whole. I am just speaking to MY beliefs, and mine only. And as you said I would be offended if someone within my beliefs was telling people about Christianity, in a way that assumed that I was right there with them, even if it was not the case.
And thanks for the editing help |
Indeed, if we consider the unblushing promises of reward and the staggering nature of the rewards promised in the Gospels, it would seem that Our Lord finds our desire, not too strong, but too weak. We are half-hearted creatures, fooling about with drink and sex and ambition when infinite joy is offered us, like an ignorant child who wants to go on making mud pies in a slum because he cannot imagine what is meant by the offer of a holiday at the sea. We are far too easily pleased.-- C.S. Lewis |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2004 : 15:58:06 [Permalink]
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Creation88 wrote:quote:
I realize this. I am not trying to represent christianity as a whole. I am just speaking to MY beliefs, and mine only.
You're absolutely correct. I apologize, as I got mixed up about who was saying what to whom. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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ConsequentAtheist
SFN Regular
641 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2004 : 16:51:07 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.
While I don't agree with ConsequentAtheist's tone (or choice of words), ...
My tone and choice of words reflect the conviction that what is central here is not good debating form. This convction, in turn, is based on the realization that the brand of ignorance being championed by your young fundamentalist friend has resulted, and will result, in very real pain inflicted upon very real people.
quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.
Finally, although it seems obvious that ConsequentAtheist's remarks were intended to be deeply offensive ...
My remarks were intended to be accurate and deeply impactful. What is offensive is the commitment to ignorance so proudly displayed by creation88. |
For the philosophical naturalist, the rejection of supernaturalism is a case of "death by a thousand cuts." -- Barbara Forrest, Ph.D. |
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Trish
SFN Addict
USA
2102 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2004 : 16:51:15 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.
Seems I was beaten to the edit button. That's what I get for rambling on. Thanks, Trish.
No problem, just don't want to get into that part of the argument.
c88, a bit of unsolicited advice, don't take everything/everyone so seriously and learn to laugh at yourself - laughing at others too instead of going off the deep end comes so much easier then. As long as they realize that your willing to laugh at your own gaffs, then they won't take it so hard when your willing to laugh at theirs - you tend to laugh with them then instead of at them. Also keeps things from getting too heated in any argument if you laugh at yourself first - then what comes at you is funny rather than insulting.
If that made any sense to you, great if not ignore me. |
...no one has ever found a 4.5 billion year old stone artifact (at the right geological stratum) with the words "Made by God."
No Sense of Obligation by Matt Young
"Say what you will about the sweet miracle of unquestioning faith. I consider the capacity for it terrifying and vile!"
Mother Night by Kurt Vonnegut, Jr.
They (Women Marines) don't have a nickname, and they don't need one. They get their basic training in a Marine atmosphere, at a Marine Post. They inherit the traditions of the Marines. They are Marines.
LtGen Thomas Holcomb, USMC
Commandant of the Marine Corps, 1943
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ConsequentAtheist
SFN Regular
641 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2004 : 16:58:50 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by creation88
quote:
You simply don't know what you don't know, and you're rapidly reaching the point where your age no longer excuses your ignorance
Is this a joke?!?!?! Did you seriously just call me ignorant?
Yes. You are seriously, dangerously, and naively ignorant. The problem is easily remedied ... once recognized. |
For the philosophical naturalist, the rejection of supernaturalism is a case of "death by a thousand cuts." -- Barbara Forrest, Ph.D. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2004 : 18:11:37 [Permalink]
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ConsequentAtheist wrote:quote:
My tone and choice of words reflect the conviction that what is central here is not good debating form.
I'm not even talking about good "debating form," just simple civility. There are certainly other ways to get your point across, and it's plain to me that your previous attempt resulted in little but Creation88 ignoring your points in favor of being justifiably insulted. In other words, you have succeeded in doing the opposite of what you apparently wanted to do.quote:
This convction, in turn, is based on the realization that the brand of ignorance being championed by your young fundamentalist friend has resulted, and will result, in very real pain inflicted upon very real people.
Yes, including himself. However, attempting to show him how to fix the problem might be a better solution than insulting him. I understand that you tried to do part of this, with the snippet from ADL at the end of your post, but you'll notice that it was completely ignored. Apparently, bludgeoning him isn't working.quote:
My remarks were intended to be accurate and deeply impactful.
But they were ineffectual in creating an environment in which Creation88 could take even a small step towards an end to his ignorance. I'm sure there are plenty of folks similar to him who would simply re-read Matthew 5, and say to themselves (or to you), "Jesus teaches that if I'm being attacked for my beliefs, I am blessed." Therefore, in my opinion, your tone and choice of words (regardless of their accuracy) just reinforce the ignorance you are trying to combat.quote:
What is offensive is the commitment to ignorance so proudly displayed by creation88.
And if you discuss things with him, you've got a chance, however small, of lessening his committment to that goal. If, on the other hand, you eliminate all possibility of communication, either by ensuring that he won't listen to you in particular, or by filling these forums with venom so thick that he won't return, you will have absolutely zero further opportunities to help him and others in similar situations.
And with that, it appears to me that your demeanor here can only augment the "brand of ignorance" that "has resulted, and will result, in very real pain inflicted upon very real people." To use your words, "Where you go from here is your choice. I hope you choose wisely." |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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byhisgrace88
Formerly "creation88"
USA
166 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2004 : 19:07:58 [Permalink]
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quote:
your previous attempt resulted in little but Creation88 ignoring your points
(edited for content) I really do not ignore his points. I will try to do better, on the things he pointed out. I was upset with the manner, in which he said them. Someone like Renae, while I dis-agree with her on most subjects. She gives me advice, but in a more respectful way.
It is very hypocritical for anyone to tell me that I ignore points that people make. I also have made many valid points, that nobody replyed to. They only replyed to what they thought they could give a good answer to.
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Indeed, if we consider the unblushing promises of reward and the staggering nature of the rewards promised in the Gospels, it would seem that Our Lord finds our desire, not too strong, but too weak. We are half-hearted creatures, fooling about with drink and sex and ambition when infinite joy is offered us, like an ignorant child who wants to go on making mud pies in a slum because he cannot imagine what is meant by the offer of a holiday at the sea. We are far too easily pleased.-- C.S. Lewis |
| Edited by - byhisgrace88 on 02/14/2004 19:09:37 |
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Renae
SFN Regular
543 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2004 : 21:06:56 [Permalink]
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C88, I think the phenomenon you're referring to (about people picking one thing out of a long, thoughtful post and disagreeing with it) is common to most boards. I, too, find it frustrating--and I'm quite sure I'm guilty of doing it to others. I'm trying to be better about it.
CA, you were fifteen once, too.
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2004 : 22:15:30 [Permalink]
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Creation88 wrote:quote:
It is very hypocritical for anyone to tell me that I ignore points that people make.
Sorry, but phrases like "it's plain to me" and "in my opinion" should tell you that what I was saying (and not to you) was simply the impression I had, and not any sort of fact. Thanks for clearing things up, and telling us you weren't ignoring anything (and "respect" was partially my point, too), but I think my prior statements to ConsequentAtheist are still valid, especially in light of the fact that since he made the post which upset you, we haven't talked about much else.quote:
I also have made many valid points, that nobody replyed to. They only replyed to what they thought they could give a good answer to.
Careful there. That last sentence is not very different than if I had told you that you were ignoring CA. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Doomar
SFN Regular
USA
714 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2004 : 23:16:06 [Permalink]
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Creation88, I wonder if some Jews have trouble getting over the crucifixion and passion of Christ because they continue today to "crucify" Christ by their opposition to Christian belief. It is not a wonder to me that people, such as CA, are also having trouble because they continue to "bash" Christians and Christ by their words and passionate hatred of everything "God".
On another level, I think many Jews worry about the possible backlash such reviewing of this historic event may foster in some, seeing that they are hated by so many and think it may just cause more hatred. They are afraid of being continually blamed for the sins of their forefathers. Were they not still committing those sins, it would not be an issue with them.
One can't expect people to get over something that is a true issue with them, regardless of how many years have passed since the event. The issue of whether Jesus of Nazareth was or wasn't the Messiah is clearly pivotal in Jewish belief. They are taught that Jesus was a false prophet and that the Messiah has not yet come. Why wouldn't you expect them to react strongly toward any point of view that demeans their current faith, and Christianity, which is based on the life, death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus, does just that. This is not to say that Jesus was against the Jewish law or Jews. On the contrary, Jesus was a Jew and loved all Jews. He died for Jews and Gentiles, as he realized the inability of men to find God without a savior, and He wants all of us to find God. The Jewish law, however, was fulfilled by Jesus and the need for ritual sacrifice was fulfilled by the shedding of his own blood, once for all men. For Jews to deny that is to continually deny God's "sacrifice" for men, and thus modern practicing Jews still agree with the crucifixion of Christ as the killing of a dangerous false prophet, they just won't tell you that. In spite of this, most Christians love the Jews and want the best for them. |
Mark 10:27 (NKJV) 27But Jesus looked at them and said, “With men it is impossible, but not with God; for with God all things are possible.”
www.pastorsb.com.htm |
| Edited by - Doomar on 02/14/2004 23:32:01 |
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