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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
 Posted - 03/14/2004 : 15:37:19 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Doomar
Check this link out for an article on the Condition of the American Church: http://www.dands-construction.com/psweb/Amerchurc1.html I think its this Churchianity that you're confusing with the old time Christianity.
I followed the link, but as soon as I got that annoying midi-music interfering with my favourite tunes from winamp I quickly closed it. I wonder that the article had to say... However I recognized the layout from the war-on-iraq article. |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 03/14/2004 : 15:53:32 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Doomar
So, you say sin is a construct of Christian mythology? Then murder, thievry, rape, adultery, lying, terrorizing, robbing, and every form of lawlessness is just a figment of Christian imagination,
It's very bad behaviour. And it is certainly not something to strive for. But that doesn't change the fact that "sin" is a construct of the christian mythology.
quote:
along with greed, lust for sex, lust for power and gain, hatred, hypocrisy, and just plain meaness and unbelief toward God is all, likewise just a myth?
He never said that all these bad things were imaginary. You are dangerously close to putting words in his mouth that he didn't say, nor implied. And that, my friend is coming very close to lying, which is a very un-christian thing to do, although not uncommon among christians.
Sin is a mythological construct.
If "unbelief toward (christian) God" is not a christian-mythology construct, then I do not know what is...
quote:
Nice try, but you lose the game of life which is based on reality.
No, he's the winner. You are the runner-up in the contest, because of your insistence in the reality of your imaginary friend Jesus. quote:
The very "snake oil" example you give is one of the deceitful ways of men, or sin.
hehe... You're trying to sell it too?
Sorry, but we're not buying it. We're not gullible enough to fall for the scam. |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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furshur
SFN Regular
USA
1536 Posts |
Posted - 03/15/2004 : 13:39:51 [Permalink]
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| Hollywood is passionate about money. With the success of 'The Passion', I would expect to see a whole slew of new religious movies. It reminds me of when Star Wars was first made - a load of sci-fi movies came out after it that were just dreadful. So... standby. |
If I knew then what I know now then I would know more now than I know. |
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Chippewa
SFN Regular
USA
1496 Posts |
Posted - 03/16/2004 : 02:15:28 [Permalink]
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To believe one is "saved" from eternal torment in a "hell" after death by "accepting" Christ through a narrowly defined avenue of precepts, establishes an unconscious sense of superiority in the ego of the "saved." A sense of superiority over other human beings who, through ethnicity, religion or culture, are deemed "unsaved" and therefore branded as "lost sinners." This bizarre concept of inequality, established sometime after the death of Christ, has laid a foundation of evil that shares equally with the better-known "goodness" and civilized benefits of Christianity.
Christians need to look in the mirror and "save" themselves from this distorted dogma before pointing self-righteous fingers at others. They need to loose the arrogant distortions that impose on their personal feeling of grace a sense of smugness or even pity for others whom they feel cannot possibly know or sense the same things, without being a Christian. That mindless acceptance that they alone feel "saved" over others informs the irrational aspects of their dogma. Otherwise, Christianity, as with other great faiths, will whither away, as the changes and transformations naturally imposed upon it come forth.
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Doomar
SFN Regular
USA
714 Posts |
Posted - 03/16/2004 : 10:03:24 [Permalink]
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| From what I can see, most of the recent responses to this thread are merely arguments against Christianity in general and are not the responses that genuinely reply to this subject. I think if you'd like to express your sincere hatred of all that is Christian, you are free to post your thoughts in a forum of your own making. That seems to be taking place in many places in Skeptics forum. This thread is for discussing Christ's true motivation or passion. If you don't believe Christ existed or that the New Testament is just made up, dont' bother responding, as you'd be wasting your time on such "trivial matters". If you believe Christ was a real person with a certain motivation, you are free to express what you think the motivation was. What would motivate you to lay down your life for someone? |
Mark 10:27 (NKJV) 27But Jesus looked at them and said, “With men it is impossible, but not with God; for with God all things are possible.”
www.pastorsb.com.htm |
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Doomar
SFN Regular
USA
714 Posts |
Posted - 03/16/2004 : 10:08:21 [Permalink]
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[quote]Originally posted by Chippewa
To believe one is "saved" from eternal torment in a "hell" after death by "accepting" Christ through a narrowly defined avenue of precepts, establishes an unconscious sense of superiority in the ego of the "saved."
You're right. If that was what Christianity was about...which it isn't....you just described modern evangelical Christianity in America which has little in common with original Christianity and Jesus's teachings. This thread, however is about Christ's passion. What do you think he was passionate about? |
Mark 10:27 (NKJV) 27But Jesus looked at them and said, “With men it is impossible, but not with God; for with God all things are possible.”
www.pastorsb.com.htm |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 03/16/2004 : 15:27:48 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Chippewa
Christians need to look in the mirror and "save" themselves from this distorted dogma before pointing self-righteous fingers at others. They need to loose the arrogant distortions that impose on their personal feeling of grace a sense of smugness or even pity for others whom they feel cannot possibly know or sense the same things, without being a Christian. That mindless acceptance that they alone feel "saved" over others informs the irrational aspects of their dogma. Otherwise, Christianity, as with other great faiths, will whither away, as the changes and transformations naturally imposed upon it come forth.
AMEN to that Chippewa.
However, Doomar is right in one thing though. This thread is about what the fictional founder of a religious cult was passionate about when he was on his way to his own execusion. |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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Renae
SFN Regular
543 Posts |
Posted - 03/16/2004 : 18:31:21 [Permalink]
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Until this movie was released, I hadn't heard the terms "passion" and "passion plays" used in relation to Jesus.
I don't know what Jesus was passionate about. I'm assuming love, kindness, fairness, and tolerance--because that's my rudimentary, probably under-informed, and simplified version of what Jesus taught.
But whatever I say will garner a lengthy "Lemme tell you 'bout the Bible, honey" response, right? Which is why I rarely talk about religion with believers. I hate being lectured.  |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 03/16/2004 : 18:54:42 [Permalink]
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Well put. This is why religion is dangerous.
quote:
Originally posted by Chippewa
To believe one is "saved" from eternal torment in a "hell" after death by "accepting" Christ through a narrowly defined avenue of precepts, establishes an unconscious sense of superiority in the ego of the "saved."
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I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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Robb
SFN Regular
USA
1223 Posts |
Posted - 03/17/2004 : 11:22:07 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
However, Doomar is right in one thing though. This thread is about what the fictional founder of a religious cult was passionate about when he was on his way to his own execusion.
In John 14:31 Jesus says: "but the world must learn that I love the Father and that I do exactly what my Father has commanded me".
I am not arguing the existence of God or Jesus, but taken from the Bible, Jesus primary reason he did it was to please God. |
Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. - George Washington |
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Robb
SFN Regular
USA
1223 Posts |
Posted - 03/17/2004 : 12:02:57 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by creation88
I thought this was a good time to clear up a common misconception. JESUS WAS NOT OMNIPITENT! The very fact that it says in a few places in the bible "Jesus learned" proves the fact. I believe he did not figure out that he was the son of God until later in his life.
Hebrews 10:5-7 indicates that he knew all the events that would take place and that he was the son of God.
"Therefore, when Christ came into the world, he said:
"Sacrifice and offering you did not desire,
but a body you prepared for me;
With burnt offerings and sin offerings
you were not pleased.
Then I said, 'Here I am--it is written about me in the scroll--
I have come to do your will, O God."
Jesus knew who he was even before the creation. |
Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. - George Washington |
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Chippewa
SFN Regular
USA
1496 Posts |
Posted - 03/17/2004 : 14:07:10 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Robb
Jesus knew who he was even before the creation.
"...burnt offerings and sin offerings" were also made by the ancient Greeks to Zues and many other gods and goddesses before the time of Jesus. Did earlier mortals born of gods, such as Hercules, know who they were before Mt. Olympus and the world came into being?
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Diversity, independence, innovation and imagination are progressive concepts ultimately alien to the conservative mind.
"TAX AND SPEND" IS GOOD! (TAX: Wealthy corporations who won't go poor even after taxes. SPEND: On public works programs, education, the environment, improvements.) |
| Edited by - Chippewa on 03/17/2004 14:07:42 |
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Robb
SFN Regular
USA
1223 Posts |
Posted - 03/17/2004 : 15:00:25 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Chippewa
"...burnt offerings and sin offerings" were also made by the ancient Greeks to Zues and many other gods and goddesses before the time of Jesus. Did earlier mortals born of gods, such as Hercules, know who they were before Mt. Olympus and the world came into being?
The burnt and sin offerings made by man were not sufficient to atone for all mans sins. Jesus was fully God and fully man and was a sufficient offering to wipe away peoples sins. Jesus was not created; he is God and has always been God. The people born of Greek Gods were created and were not fully Gods. Therefore, I would say no. They did not exist before the world was created. That is if you believe that the Greek Gods existed at all. |
Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. - George Washington |
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Woody D
Skeptic Friend
Thailand
285 Posts |
Posted - 03/17/2004 : 19:49:00 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Doomar
Your comments are welcome. What do you think Jesus Christ's passion really was....I mean what Christ was passionate about...what led Him to do what He did and go through all the suffering? Could He have avoided it? If so, why did He not avoid this terrible fate? I'm not talking reasons here, but passion. Someones got to be extremely passionate about something to give up their life for it. What was it?
It's very simple. He was mentaly deranged. No, I'm not joking.
Had at that time they known about schizopphrenia, yes, he could have avoided it. But like everything else in history, it takes time to discover new scientific explanations for what is happening.
Like Mother Theresa gave her life for the misguided idea that she was helping people, he too might have had that 'passionate' thought. There are many people then and now who do things that to others seems inexplickable.
"Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father is also merciful. Judge not, and you shall not be judged. Condemn not, and you shall not be condemned. Forgive, and you shall be forgiven." |
www.Carabao.net
As long as there's, you know, sex and drugs, I can do without the rock and roll.
Mick Shrimpton
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Chippewa
SFN Regular
USA
1496 Posts |
Posted - 03/18/2004 : 01:11:22 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Robb
The people born of Greek Gods were created and were not fully Gods. Therefore, I would say no. They did not exist before the world was created. That is if you believe that the Greek Gods existed at all.
That explains why Hercules has some super strength. He's part God (Zeus) and part Mankind. Ancient Greek mythological beliefs formed a powerful religion before Christianity, which in turn adopted and altered many of the ancient myths. Such as: Adam & Eve eating the fruit of knowledge (which gives us both civilization and the trade-off in pain, as we loose our early childhood "paradise.") And also Dionysius, being resurrected as symbolized by the wine branch, which seasonally transforms from an ugly dead stump, to be reborn with fruit. Christianity assimilated many of these pagan ideas.
As far as the Greek Gods actually "existing," if one subscribes to the basic concepts of consciousness as expressed by Julian Jaynes in his book "The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind," religion likely formed from the prior non-conscious mentality which under novel conditions allowed people to experience their thoughts as hallucinations, (rather than simply think as we now do in self awareness,) so that the Gods actually spoke in their temples. Modern religious rituals and dogmas could be attempts to recapture that sense of ancient "authorization" for actions. Probably explains one of the reasons why so much evil has been done in the name of modern religious dogma.
On the other hand, it probably also explains why "Jason and the Argonauts" is still such a cool movie. Much more fun than Mel's "Passion."
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Diversity, independence, innovation and imagination are progressive concepts ultimately alien to the conservative mind.
"TAX AND SPEND" IS GOOD! (TAX: Wealthy corporations who won't go poor even after taxes. SPEND: On public works programs, education, the environment, improvements.) |
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