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@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
 Posted - 08/09/2001 : 22:57:45
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So we all saw what the President decided today but what I am wondering is how big a deal it was. Isn't the research just the tip of the iceburg in terms of making a moral decision? What happens when a major breakthrough is made? Are significantly larger amounts of stem cells going to be needed? Was today's decision just putting the big decision off till later?
I have to admit to being very amused by the spin I am hearing on this. That it's morally OK to use the cells currently in the lab but let's just not use any more because that wouldn't be moral. I just about wanted to bust out laughing at the absurdity of it.
@tomic
Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law!
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Lisa
SFN Regular
USA
1223 Posts |
 Posted - 08/09/2001 : 23:14:15 [Permalink]
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The guy is probably still wondering how a science issue got dumped in his lap. Get serious, how many in this political debate really even understood the issue? With any luck, the whole issue will fade from the public's mind. Then scientists and researchers can go on with what they do best, science and research. Maybe another politician will get caught with an intern under his desk, and give the general public something else to rant about.
Lisa
Chaos...Confusion...Destruction...My Work Here Is Done |
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 08/09/2001 : 23:49:29 [Permalink]
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quote:
So we all saw what the President decided today but what I am wondering is how big a deal it was. Isn't the research just the tip of the iceburg in terms of making a moral decision? What happens when a major breakthrough is made? Are significantly larger amounts of stem cells going to be needed? Was today's decision just putting the big decision off till later?
I have to admit to being very amused by the spin I am hearing on this. That it's morally OK to use the cells currently in the lab but let's just not use any more because that wouldn't be moral. I just about wanted to bust out laughing at the absurdity of it.
@tomic
Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law!
Is it just ME or did anyone else notice that during the speech, Bush's lips weren't moving with the words? Looked kind of like when Connon O'Brian does that 'talking to the president' bit at the beggining of his show.
Rap Crap is to music what Paint by Numbers is to art. |
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@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
Posted - 08/09/2001 : 23:56:14 [Permalink]
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I didn't notice that, but I have to admit I was looking for strings 
 @tomic
Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law! |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 08/10/2001 : 08:11:13 [Permalink]
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quote:
So we all saw what the President decided today but what I am wondering is how big a deal it was. Isn't the research just the tip of the iceburg in terms of making a moral decision? What happens when a major breakthrough is made? Are significantly larger amounts of stem cells going to be needed? Was today's decision just putting the big decision off till later?
I have to admit to being very amused by the spin I am hearing on this. That it's morally OK to use the cells currently in the lab but let's just not use any more because that wouldn't be moral. I just about wanted to bust out laughing at the absurdity of it.
@tomic
Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law!
By choosing this middle ground, he has been able to piss off everybody. I think he couldn't outright ban it, but wanted to appear compassionate. He is probably comfortable with the idea of being a one term President. He merely delayed the issue.
I don't envy him the decision. Those right to lifers have a few fanatics with guns.
It's always confused me that some right to lifers are also supporters of the death penalty.
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Tokyodreamer
SFN Regular
USA
1447 Posts |
Posted - 08/10/2001 : 09:05:20 [Permalink]
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quote:
I think he couldn't outright ban it, but wanted to appear compassionate. He is probably comfortable with the idea of being a one term President. He merely delayed the issue.
Or maybe he {gasp!} made a decision based on his actual feelings on the matter! For some reason, I'm a bit less cynical in regards to W.'s motives than I was with Clinton.
quote:
It's always confused me that some right to lifers are also supporters of the death penalty.
It's the whole "guilty" vs. "innocent" defense. Innocent "babies" versus "guilty" criminals. What disturbs me most is the seeming enjoyment they get out of the death penalty...
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Ma gavte la nata! |
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Kristin
Skeptic Friend
Canada
84 Posts |
Posted - 08/10/2001 : 09:09:28 [Permalink]
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quote:
It's always confused me that some right to lifers are also supporters of the death penalty.
I guess they think everyone deserves a chance to fsck up before they get offed 
On Dubya's decision... yeah, middle of the road. 'I REFUSE TO MAKE A DECISION.' It is holding back research, but not nearly as much so as total banning of stem cell research could be. Are the scientists allowed to obtain cell lines from other countries? May make no difference in the long run. From what I read, only another 2 years would be required to produce enough cell lines to be compatible with any and all human beings. So progress may be made in spite of legislation, and by the time he's out of office it'll be a moot point.
But that's just my take on it.
Good judgement comes from experience: experience comes from bad judgement. |
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Greg
Skeptic Friend
USA
281 Posts |
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PhDreamer
SFN Regular
USA
925 Posts |
Posted - 08/14/2001 : 07:54:19 [Permalink]
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quote:
quote:
I think he couldn't outright ban it, but wanted to appear compassionate. He is probably comfortable with the idea of being a one term President. He merely delayed the issue.
Or maybe he {gasp!} made a decision based on his actual feelings on the matter! For some reason, I'm a bit less cynical in regards to W.'s motives than I was with Clinton.
I think @tomic's comments speak to this. It doesn't really make any sense. Either it is morally allowable to harvest stems cells or it isn't. I don't see how the present state of the embryos has any bearing.
quote:
quote:
It's always confused me that some right to lifers are also supporters of the death penalty.
It's the whole "guilty" vs. "innocent" defense. Innocent "babies" versus "guilty" criminals. What disturbs me most is the seeming enjoyment they get out of the death penalty...
I thought most forms of Christianity had humans born guilty and having to live a pentient life in order to be saved. Original sin and all that.
This signature does not exist. |
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theatheistknight
New Member
USA
13 Posts |
Posted - 08/15/2001 : 18:26:28 [Permalink]
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For Bush, his decision was not a moral choice, it was political.
Richard J. Allen |
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Tokyodreamer
SFN Regular
USA
1447 Posts |
Posted - 08/16/2001 : 05:49:28 [Permalink]
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quote:
For Bush, his decision was not a moral choice, it was political.
Richard J. Allen
So you know him personally, then?
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Ma gavte la nata! |
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@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
Posted - 08/16/2001 : 09:09:34 [Permalink]
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If it was a moral choice then let's get Saint Clinton back because Dubya's got some incredibly warped morals!!!!
@tomic
Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law! |
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Lisa
SFN Regular
USA
1223 Posts |
Posted - 08/16/2001 : 09:20:24 [Permalink]
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I'm certainly not W's biggest fan, but I couldn't help but feel for him in this situation. The loud minority in this country started screaming for the guvmint to "do something". Unless we want to see a bunch of medical research exported to other countries, there was really only one choice. If I'd been him, I would have realized a good way to weasel out. A medical ethics committee, two months of conferences, and about a metric ton of paperwork filled with incomprehensible medical jargon. Release to public knowing full well 99.9 won't have a clue. Say "go ahead".
Lisa
Chaos...Confusion...Destruction...My Work Here Is Done |
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@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
Posted - 08/16/2001 : 09:30:01 [Permalink]
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Yes there was only one choice, but the reasons he gave made me laugh outloud. The way I heard it was "George tried to pull a Clinton"
Unfortunatley, Dubya's about as smooth as a field of broken glass. Maybe it's not so unfortunate. It's good to know when your leaders are lying.
@tomic
Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law! |
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Greg
Skeptic Friend
USA
281 Posts |
Posted - 08/16/2001 : 09:55:23 [Permalink]
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quote:
I'm certainly not W's biggest fan, but I couldn't help but feel for him in this situation.
He brought it on himself. When Clinton decided to renew funding and GW was a candidate, he made a campaign issue out of it to impress the "pro-life" voters. It would have never been such a big deal if he didn't make it so.
Greg.
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@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
Posted - 08/16/2001 : 10:00:44 [Permalink]
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Heh heh, sort of like when he pledged to sign the Kyoto treaty?? Give this guy another 6 months and he will have broken promises to every American. Shoot he already has...
@tomic
Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law! |
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