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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
 Posted - 05/25/2004 : 11:27:50 [Permalink]
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verlch wrote:quote:
I suppose science can tell me whats going to happen 1 billin years from now.
You suppose wrong, which is a large part of the problem here in this thread: you make unwarranted and baseless assumptions, but then act as if they must be "the truth."quote:
Since they can't agree on what happened 4,500 years ago...I'm all ears.
Since when are scientists in disagreement about something which happened 4,500 years ago? What, precisely, do they disagree about? |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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chaloobi
SFN Regular
1620 Posts |
Posted - 05/25/2004 : 11:43:54 [Permalink]
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Wow. This thread is huge. I can't believe you guys have gone on about this irreconcilable difference for so long. Time to get divorced! Verlch, you should take some time to brush up your understanding of science in general and of evolution in particular. Chances are you'll be amazed at what God has done OUTSIDE the bible with the tools described in evolution! (it's possible  ) And the rest of you guys should stop wasting your time arguing against ignorance. As long as this guy has it in his heart that at all costs the Bible must be true in all it's silliness, you will never gain anything by arguing with him.
There. That's my 2 cents. Verlch, if I said anything to offend you it's only because it's the truth. Sorry. |
-Chaloobi
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| Edited by - chaloobi on 05/25/2004 11:45:14 |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 05/25/2004 : 12:17:54 [Permalink]
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Yeh, and I grow bored. It is rather like listening to a screathed Alvin and the Chipmunks record, and has for a long time. Same old nonsense over and over.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 05/25/2004 : 13:10:48 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by filthy
Yeh, and I grow bored. It is rather like listening to a screathed Alvin and the Chipmunks record, and has for a long time. Same old nonsense over and over.
I agree... Despite him claiming to be a General Contractor with $10000+ orders and at least two divorces, and an IQ of 150, he still has an arguing technique (and an attention span) of an early teen. The same goes for his way of dodging uncomfortable questions.
His lack of knowledge of evolutionary theories is astonishing even though he seems so sure of himself, and he relies heavily on antagonistic sources for information about how it works.
Creationists are feeding him lies about evolution, and he just swallows it without question.
The "throw 100 pennies and see how many heads come up"-experiment suggested by creationists is such a typical demonstration of creationists lack of understanding of 1) Theory of Biological Evolution, 2) Abiogenisis, 3) Chemistry.
I do not believe Verlch has any idea what the difference is between 1 and 2.
Dave, can you post an update on Verlch's list of assertions? Perhaps it could be colour-coded? |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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furshur
SFN Regular
USA
1536 Posts |
Posted - 05/25/2004 : 13:12:14 [Permalink]
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Verlch wrote:
quote:
I suppose science can tell me whats going to happen 1 billin years from now.
This is not scientific - but I think it is clear that a billion years from now the entire galaxy will have one religion. The galactic church shall be called The Holy Church of The Raving Psychotic. I believe that Verlch will be revered as a deity. The basis of the religion will be 'the saying of Verlch'. Below are some the holy saying so far shared with us:
quote:
But believing in the creator that made the sun and moon, the creations that sun and moon worshippers worship, is what I will attempt to try and accomplish.
I think our galaxies are revolving around God!!!!!
The eight paths chariot wheel, that carried humans to where the Sun god Saturn was.
It doesn't fit with the fairy-tale theory and therefore thrown in the trash, and branded as hog-wash and lies....Masons and Catholics are also very good at doing that.
I have had a bad time with women all along, I was adopted by a women, raised by a controlling nagging feminist woman, married two more feminazies, they didn't act like that when I met them.....anyways I do not like feminism or a by product of it that allows them to steer away from God and get their existence from the beasts of the feild...
If trees evoved 1 billion years ago that means you have 3 billion chances at 3% ot trees over 3,500 years to have one fossilized with the rest of the Noianich floods fossilized trees.
Who's to say how long it was 'void' and without 'form.'? Only God knows, that could explain the varios lava action over the years. There are volcanic eruptions on planets far from earth. That could explain the layers and lots of things you claim.
Speaking back to the flood story, look the earth is 70% water right now. (were did water come from?)(I suppose it just came into being magically and without cause)
I can give you human from monkey but monkey from what? Again? I lost the sniff of reality after monkey!!!
Fish live on oxygen to pal!!!!! Same thing as us, and since evolution has no tangible purpose why are humans limited to air breathing, why didn't we evole in water and swim too and fro.
You know how can you explain that if humans reproduced to infinity and beyond, we would all be different!!!!
If you find a planet earth in the middle of nowhere traveling in space at over 3,000,000 mph you know somebody had to have made us.
If there is not enough truth in the bible why does the earth insist on doing the exact opposite?
AMEN
Edited for spelling |
If I knew then what I know now then I would know more now than I know. |
| Edited by - furshur on 05/25/2004 13:15:16 |
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verlch
SFN Regular
781 Posts |
Posted - 05/25/2004 : 13:12:46 [Permalink]
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| You can not offend me. This is a creation/evolution thread. So why do we all have to be evolutionists in here? It reminds me of Lenny Flank and Co. They can use all the tireless assumptions of evolution over and over. You disagree with them and your the biggest ass wad in the universe! |
What came first the chicken or the egg?
How do plants exist without bugs in the soil, and bugs in the soil without plants producing oxygen?
There are no atheists in foxholes
Underlying the evolutionary theory is not just the classic "stuff" of science — conclusions arrived at through prolonged observation and experimentation. Evolution is first an atheistic, materialistic world view. In other words, the primary reason for its acceptance has little to do with the evidence for or against it. Evolution is accepted because men are atheists by faith and thus interpret the evidence to cor-respond to their naturalistic philosophy.
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. II Timothy 4:3,4
II Thess. 2:11 And for this cause God shall
send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
You can not see the 'wind', but you can see its effect!!!!
Evolution was caused by genetic mistakes at each stage?
Radical Evolution has 500 million years to find fossils of fictional drawings of (hard core)missing links, yet they find none.
We have not seen such moral darkness since the dark ages, coencides with
teaching evolution in schools. (Moral darkness)
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places, EPH 6:12.
"Thus, many scientists embracing naturalism find themselves in the seeming dilemma recently articulated by biochemist Franklin Harold: "We should reject, as a matter of principle, the substitution of intelligent design for the dialogue of chance and necessity [i.e., Darwinian evolution]; but we must concede that there are presently no detailed Darwinian accounts of the evolution of any biochemical system, only a variety of wishful speculations."
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chaloobi
SFN Regular
1620 Posts |
Posted - 05/25/2004 : 13:15:54 [Permalink]
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| Doc, don't confuse ignorance with stupidity. He could very well have a 150 IQ - oh so much wasted potential in that, though . And to be a Creationsist, believing apparent nonsense based solely on an act of will (Faith) one MUST be sure of himself, no? |
-Chaloobi
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verlch
SFN Regular
781 Posts |
Posted - 05/25/2004 : 13:35:01 [Permalink]
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So fossils haven't changed at all in 400 million years? So did fossiliztion evolve overtime too as Mother (hen)/ Nature improved everything. So by faith what? You have to have more faith in Darwin than I do in God.
I don't understand this vapor trail that I am playing dodge the question with you all the time? I've looked at everything and tried to answer it to the best of my ability!
Someone asked where Noah built his ark? He built it in the antedeluvian world and the bible says out of Gopher wood and pitch. A male and female of all the mammals and birds came on it to propagate after the flood! The bible says that water came from inside the earth and from above! That would explain the fact the earth is 70% water. How do we not know the ancients lived in parts now covered in water. Maybe they got buried under the sea! |
What came first the chicken or the egg?
How do plants exist without bugs in the soil, and bugs in the soil without plants producing oxygen?
There are no atheists in foxholes
Underlying the evolutionary theory is not just the classic "stuff" of science — conclusions arrived at through prolonged observation and experimentation. Evolution is first an atheistic, materialistic world view. In other words, the primary reason for its acceptance has little to do with the evidence for or against it. Evolution is accepted because men are atheists by faith and thus interpret the evidence to cor-respond to their naturalistic philosophy.
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. II Timothy 4:3,4
II Thess. 2:11 And for this cause God shall
send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
You can not see the 'wind', but you can see its effect!!!!
Evolution was caused by genetic mistakes at each stage?
Radical Evolution has 500 million years to find fossils of fictional drawings of (hard core)missing links, yet they find none.
We have not seen such moral darkness since the dark ages, coencides with
teaching evolution in schools. (Moral darkness)
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places, EPH 6:12.
"Thus, many scientists embracing naturalism find themselves in the seeming dilemma recently articulated by biochemist Franklin Harold: "We should reject, as a matter of principle, the substitution of intelligent design for the dialogue of chance and necessity [i.e., Darwinian evolution]; but we must concede that there are presently no detailed Darwinian accounts of the evolution of any biochemical system, only a variety of wishful speculations."
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 05/25/2004 : 17:10:32 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by verlch
So fossils haven't changed at all in 400 million years? So did fossiliztion evolve overtime too as Mother (hen)/ Nature improved everything. So by faith what? You have to have more faith in Darwin than I do in God.
I don't understand this vapor trail that I am playing dodge the question with you all the time? I've looked at everything and tried to answer it to the best of my ability!
Someone asked where Noah built his ark? He built it in the antedeluvian world and the bible says out of Gopher wood and pitch. A male and female of all the mammals and birds came on it to propagate after the flood! The bible says that water came from inside the earth and from above! That would explain the fact the earth is 70% water. How do we not know the ancients lived in parts now covered in water. Maybe they got buried under the sea!
And maybe a global flood is impossible.
Every word of this has been covered back in the thread. Redundency ain't my bag. Go look it up.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 05/25/2004 : 19:38:16 [Permalink]
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verlch wrote:quote:
So fossils haven't changed at all in 400 million years?
Nobody said that. The creationist sites you pick to examine show a few examples of long-term evolutionary stability. They don't show that each and every species alive today has always existed in its current form, and in fact they agree that large species have gone extinct, which is anti-Biblical (all breathing animals were on the Ark, no?).
And that long-term stability disagrees with the short-term history (6,008 years) detailed in the Bible, so how are those sites considered reliable by you? Aren't they just more Ba'al-worshipping sinners bound for Hell?quote:
So did fossiliztion evolve overtime too as Mother (hen)/ Nature improved everything. So by faith what? You have to have more faith in Darwin than I do in God.
I have no faith in Darwin (he was just a man), and no more faith in evolutionary theory than I do in the theory of gravity or the theory of the atom. With the evidence that exists, there is no need for faith.
You, on the other hand, have so little faith in God that you appear to feel threatened by the idea that the book you worship might be wrong in the least little detail. Why is it so important to you that the theory of evolution be wrong? Is it because you've got so much of your life invested in a book that you've lost your faith in Jesus? Jesus, who agreed that bearing false witness against one's neighbor (spreading creationist lies about evolution) was a very bad thing? Jesus also said that paying attention to the small details of the law was a job for lawyers, and not the faithful. Shame on you.quote:
I don't understand this vapor trail that I am playing dodge the question with you all the time? I've looked at everything and tried to answer it to the best of my ability!
We've asked, again and again, for you to support your numerous assertions with evidence. You have failed to do so, and instead change the subject. Once again: why should we find very old fossilized trees? Why should successful species change over time? Go look at my last list of 93 assertions you've made, and address them. If you have no answer, the best of your ability would be to say so. Remaining silent doesn't tell us anything. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Stargirl
Skeptic Friend
USA
94 Posts |
Posted - 05/25/2004 : 20:28:07 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by verlch
II Timothy 4:3,4 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
Is it just me or does anyone else find it ironic that verich would post this verse since in my blasphemous interpretation it seems to describe him and other creationists to a tee. |
If God did not exist, it would be necessary to invent him - Voltaire |
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard
USA
4907 Posts |
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verlch
SFN Regular
781 Posts |
Posted - 05/25/2004 : 22:20:52 [Permalink]
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quote:
unless it is assumed that the predecessors of living systems developed elsewhere in the universe before coming to the earth.
http://www.biologie.uni-hamburg.de/b-online/e41/41.htm
The above was in the website below it!
Yeah, duh, God in Heaven!
http://www.torahbytes.org/60-05.htm
The scripture is true of things and times found in archeological finds.
http://www.escmedia.org/wires/archaeology.html
The bibles archeological finds are accurate at least they hold water!
http://www.biblical-archaeology.net/
More archeology...
http://www.absolutetruth.net/bible/page15.html
I'm sure each website is a 'lie' as soon as Dr. Zuse lays eyes upon it! How can they all be lies, the penny analagy?
http://www.aiias.edu/ict/vol_26B/26Bcc_457-477.htm
Lies, Lies and more lies, Right Doc?
http://www.creationdefense.org/53.htm
http://www.wuzupgod.com/slogans/bible.htm |
What came first the chicken or the egg?
How do plants exist without bugs in the soil, and bugs in the soil without plants producing oxygen?
There are no atheists in foxholes
Underlying the evolutionary theory is not just the classic "stuff" of science — conclusions arrived at through prolonged observation and experimentation. Evolution is first an atheistic, materialistic world view. In other words, the primary reason for its acceptance has little to do with the evidence for or against it. Evolution is accepted because men are atheists by faith and thus interpret the evidence to cor-respond to their naturalistic philosophy.
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. II Timothy 4:3,4
II Thess. 2:11 And for this cause God shall
send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
You can not see the 'wind', but you can see its effect!!!!
Evolution was caused by genetic mistakes at each stage?
Radical Evolution has 500 million years to find fossils of fictional drawings of (hard core)missing links, yet they find none.
We have not seen such moral darkness since the dark ages, coencides with
teaching evolution in schools. (Moral darkness)
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places, EPH 6:12.
"Thus, many scientists embracing naturalism find themselves in the seeming dilemma recently articulated by biochemist Franklin Harold: "We should reject, as a matter of principle, the substitution of intelligent design for the dialogue of chance and necessity [i.e., Darwinian evolution]; but we must concede that there are presently no detailed Darwinian accounts of the evolution of any biochemical system, only a variety of wishful speculations."
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| Edited by - verlch on 05/25/2004 22:56:29 |
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verlch
SFN Regular
781 Posts |
Posted - 05/25/2004 : 23:11:26 [Permalink]
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quote:
Is it just me or does anyone else find it ironic that verich would post this verse since in my blasphemous interpretation it seems to describe him and other creationists to a tee.
Well lady I think that comment is rather mean spirited! That's like me saying your prosible witchcraft 101 teachers and students, all worship the devil. Sure they sit around a pentagram speaking to the dead, but are they really worshiping a goat or what? Then they talk to wood, and get a dial moved around, who's to say that's a wicked establishment? What's your sign baby, are you a saggitaris or another star group? I was born in on the 19th of March, I don't think star girl and I are compatible! Too bad! What do you think there hotstuff?
"Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils." - 1 Timothy 4:1
And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead? -somewhere in the bible.
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. Ephesian 6
Maybe your 30 year old goddess of the wind and rain has all the answers? Or maybe the other 160 year old faith based Darwin...?
In a Creation vs. Evolution debate I can use the bible, its not against the rules unless Lenny Flankinator is in here!!!!
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What came first the chicken or the egg?
How do plants exist without bugs in the soil, and bugs in the soil without plants producing oxygen?
There are no atheists in foxholes
Underlying the evolutionary theory is not just the classic "stuff" of science — conclusions arrived at through prolonged observation and experimentation. Evolution is first an atheistic, materialistic world view. In other words, the primary reason for its acceptance has little to do with the evidence for or against it. Evolution is accepted because men are atheists by faith and thus interpret the evidence to cor-respond to their naturalistic philosophy.
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. II Timothy 4:3,4
II Thess. 2:11 And for this cause God shall
send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
You can not see the 'wind', but you can see its effect!!!!
Evolution was caused by genetic mistakes at each stage?
Radical Evolution has 500 million years to find fossils of fictional drawings of (hard core)missing links, yet they find none.
We have not seen such moral darkness since the dark ages, coencides with
teaching evolution in schools. (Moral darkness)
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places, EPH 6:12.
"Thus, many scientists embracing naturalism find themselves in the seeming dilemma recently articulated by biochemist Franklin Harold: "We should reject, as a matter of principle, the substitution of intelligent design for the dialogue of chance and necessity [i.e., Darwinian evolution]; but we must concede that there are presently no detailed Darwinian accounts of the evolution of any biochemical system, only a variety of wishful speculations."
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| Edited by - verlch on 05/25/2004 23:57:37 |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 05/26/2004 : 02:10:55 [Permalink]
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quote:
In a Creation vs. Evolution debate I can use the bible, its not against the rules unless Lenny Flankinator is in here!!!!
Actually, (I didn't read all 16 pages of this thread so I'll apologize later if I'm repeating stuff that has been said before) you can use the bible as evidence in your argument only after you can prove that it is the inerant word of god. Atleast, that's what you'd do if you expected any skeptic to accept your argument as sound.
As it's extremely unlikely that you can prove that point..... I could point out to you the incredible number of logical and argumentive fallacies you perpetrate by citing the bible as your evidence. But I won't.
Instead, can we implore you to drop the dogmatism long enough to go learn about critical thinking?
Trust me when I say that if you were to develope even a basic understanding of critical thinking and learn even a few logic/argument fallacies.... you'd be much more capable of presenting your point in a way that people on a SKEPTIC bb would accept. |
Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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