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furshur
SFN Regular
USA
1536 Posts |
 Posted - 04/21/2004 : 09:57:29
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If the election were held today Bush would win because of the help from his best friend - Ralph Nader. Bush won the last election because of the few percentage points that Ralph got.
I think it is fair to say that Nader did not steal alot of consevative votes.
Maybe this should be on the conspiracy page - but I bet that alot of Ralph Naders funding is coming from republicans. Hell, if I was a republican I would send old Ralphy some money.
I wonder if we could get a grass-roots movement to get Trent Lott, or Pat Robertson or even Rush to run. Sort of even the 'playing field'
Just a thought.
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If I knew then what I know now then I would know more now than I know. |
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chaloobi
SFN Regular
1620 Posts |
Posted - 04/21/2004 : 11:14:54 [Permalink]
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| They're too smart for that. |
-Chaloobi
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 04/21/2004 : 12:06:54 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by furshur
If the election were held today Bush would win because of the help from his best friend - Ralph Nader. Bush won the last election because of the few percentage points that Ralph got.
I think it is fair to say that Nader did not steal alot of consevative votes.
Maybe this should be on the conspiracy page - but I bet that alot of Ralph Naders funding is coming from republicans. Hell, if I was a republican I would send old Ralphy some money.
I wonder if we could get a grass-roots movement to get Trent Lott, or Pat Robertson or even Rush to run. Sort of even the 'playing field'
Just a thought.
Every poll I've seen falls into the "margin of error". Essentially saying "we don't know who will win". Nader votes don't necessarily translate directly to Democratic votes. Theres a lot of pissed off people. Whose votes are the Libertarians and the Reform party supposed to be "stealing". Answer: no ones. Nader and others (Nader is the only one mentioned because he came close to the 15% level required for federal funding last year and his candidacy was blamed for the close race in Florida) earned those votes. It's up to the candidates of the major parties to convince the voters to vote for them.
The accusation of "Republican funds" isn't new. Al Sharpton was the recipient of quite a bit of Republican money. Instead of providing the Democratic party with a laughing stock or the Republicans with ammunition against them, it brought a lot of issues to the forefront in a campaign that really needed it.
I wouldn't count the Demos or Repubs as a shoe in or out of this race quite yet. |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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Paladin
Skeptic Friend
USA
100 Posts |
Posted - 04/21/2004 : 17:44:59 [Permalink]
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The truth is that the 2000 election shouldn't have even been close. Period.
Ralph Nader, a bona-fide American hero in my opinion, should never have even been a factor for Gore. Hell, Gore didn't even win his home state. So blaming Ralph is like blaming the guy who misses the last shot in the championship game, ignoring all the missed opportunities and sloppy play in the previous four quarters.
This is nothing more than scapegoating, pure and simple. And it appears the Democratic leadership learned nothing from 2000, because they appear to be sticking to the very same DLC strategy that got them beat in 2000 and 2002.
If Kerry gets beat in a landslide this time, I wonder who the Dems will blame this time...
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Paladin |
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Woody D
Skeptic Friend
Thailand
285 Posts |
Posted - 04/22/2004 : 01:43:30 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Paladin
So blaming Ralph is like blaming the guy who misses the last shot in the championship game, ignoring all the missed opportunities and sloppy play in the previous four quarters.
This is nothing more than scapegoating, pure and simple
Paladin hits a home run again. Brillant. Love your analogy.
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www.Carabao.net
As long as there's, you know, sex and drugs, I can do without the rock and roll.
Mick Shrimpton
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 04/22/2004 : 02:59:09 [Permalink]
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| These so-called liberals wouldn't have Nader to blame if they actually adopted somewhat of a liberal platform. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 04/22/2004 : 03:37:02 [Permalink]
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If it's any consolation, the frothing Bedlam prospect, ex-judge Roy Moore, he of the notorious "Roy's Rock" fame has recently been making noises about running. Apparently he has some support from similiar-minded groupies. These last follow him around like teeny-boppers, but instead of throwing damp underwear at him, they fall to the ground and pray a lot.
I don't recall if he's going to be a Republican or an Independent (nor even if he'll stick with it). It'll be fun to watch if he actually gets some support beyond the current handfull of hard-core grovelers.
As for Nader, I wonder if he'll really be a factor this time. Gore ran such a lack-luster, as I see it, campaign that anything could have happened, and in FL, did to our detrament.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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furshur
SFN Regular
USA
1536 Posts |
Posted - 04/23/2004 : 09:03:20 [Permalink]
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Paladin, I agree that Nader did some great things for safety in this country. The fact remains that IF the most of the Ralph Nader people had voted for Gore he would have won NH and FL. Now for all I know, the Nader people may not have even voted if Nader wasn't running. It just makes me nervous to think this country has recently been run by a retired actor using astrology, a guy who spent his time chasing skirts and a lunkhead who can barely speak.
I mean what is the 'tri-lateral commission' thinking? Oops, wrong forum topic.
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If I knew then what I know now then I would know more now than I know. |
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ktesibios
SFN Regular
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 04/24/2004 : 13:28:21 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by furshur
It just makes me nervous to think this country has recently been run by a retired actor using astrology, a guy who spent his time chasing skirts and a lunkhead who can barely speak.
Perhaps this is evidence in favor of Douglas Adams' ideas about what Presidents are for and who should run things.
All we need now is a candidate with two heads and three arms.
VOTE ZAPHOD!  |
"The Republican agenda is to turn the United States into a third-world shithole." -P.Z.Myers |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 04/24/2004 : 14:15:30 [Permalink]
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The Big Z's got my vote, both of him!
Slartibartfast |
"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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tomk80
SFN Regular
Netherlands
1278 Posts |
Posted - 04/24/2004 : 15:02:43 [Permalink]
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| I don't know. I don't trust that new head of his. Seems to be hiding something. |
Tom
`Contrariwise,' continued Tweedledee, `if it was so, it might be; and if it were so, it would be; but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic.'
-Through the Looking Glass by Lewis Caroll- |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 04/24/2004 : 16:16:31 [Permalink]
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The second head is a huge, political advantage. If he flip-flops on a topic or outright lies, he can blame it on 'the other dude' with impunity. Also, he won't have to go through all of the hassle of choosing a VP.
And we'll only have to pay him once!
Slarti-filth
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 04/24/2004 : 17:44:26 [Permalink]
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| By the way, here in California, Kerry is leading Bush. Even with Nader thrown in, Kerry wins... |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 04/29/2004 : 06:57:12 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Paladin
If Kerry gets beat in a landslide this time, I wonder who the Dems will blame this time...
Well, one point of blame has to be our hapless media. They ruined things for Gore and their attitude has changed little since then.
Bush got a free ride in 200 while Gore got hammered. Lies put forward by the RNC (e.g. Gore said he invented the internet) were repeated ad nauseum by papers and pundits with no one bothering to check the facts. The end result is the Bush was and still is painted as a straight-shooting guy who does what he thinks is right while Gore was portrayed as an almost delusional uber-intellectual out of touch with America.
Now we see the press doing a similar number on Kerry. The "liberal" NY Times often brings up the fact the Kerry spent time at a Swiss boarding school and speaks French (as though that matters) and harps on his wife's wealth (like Bush hasn't come from one of the most well-to-do families in America).
At a rare Presidential press conference, our fatuous press corps asked the lamest questions, enabling our President to stumble and stall his way through the event without actually saying anything of value.
Only when the press starts to ask real questions about real issues will Kerry get a fair shot at this race. Without that, it doesn't matter if Nader runs or not. |
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Paladin
Skeptic Friend
USA
100 Posts |
Posted - 04/29/2004 : 17:09:05 [Permalink]
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Excellent post, Cuneiformist!  |
Paladin |
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Woody D
Skeptic Friend
Thailand
285 Posts |
Posted - 04/29/2004 : 21:53:09 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Cuneiformist
Well, one point of blame has to be our hapless media. They ruined things for Gore and their attitude has changed little since then.
Hum! Why is everyone blaming the media? The left and the right media! I suppose because they are not hearing what they want to hear.
Shouldn't much of the blame go to the PEOPLE. The good citizens who should, instead of reading what each paper or TV station says and slants according to the other side, propaganda, they should be listening to speeches or reading transscrips, geting information on their own independant of sources who are accused of being biased.
quote:
Only when the press starts to ask real questions about real issues will Kerry get a fair shot at this race. Without that, it doesn't matter if Nader runs or not.
You know what I do with all those one sided political ads in my mail box, I trash them without even looking at them. It's like reading or seeing some news story, they are only one source not to be taken as complete fact. The public needs to take responsibility and go beyond news stories.
Yeah, it might be nice to have the questions asked and answered that we'd like to know but we have to do our own digging too. I wouldn't believe everything they'd print even if they asked the 'right' questions.
Trust no one. Blame no one. But yourself.
If you don't do your homework, you have to live with the grade you get.
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www.Carabao.net
As long as there's, you know, sex and drugs, I can do without the rock and roll.
Mick Shrimpton
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