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Ricky
SFN Die Hard
USA
4907 Posts |
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tomk80
SFN Regular
Netherlands
1278 Posts |
 Posted - 04/28/2004 : 22:38:29 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Ricky
What exactly do angles do?
I thought Angels generally acted as messengers, since men is supposed not to able to stand face to face with God.
quote:
If god is infinite as Christians believe he is, then why does he need angles to do work for him? Can he not do infinitly many things at the same time (and besides that, you claim he lives outside of time and space, right?).
Don't know, maybe He just got lonely. Since He can't really talk with men, God probably just wanted some angels around to play a nice game of charades or something. Ah, here I've got something on angels:
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01476d.htm
quote:
Why did it take 7 days for god to create the universe (Genisis), couldn't he just do it with a snap of the finger (or not even that, just thinking it). Why did he rest on the 7th day? What does it take for an infinitly strong being to get tired? All of these things seem to point out that god is not all powerful. Is there an explaination for these things?
I'm suspecting that God likes prime numbers. 3 is a holy number, 7 is. Any more?
Or maybe it's just psychological. A friend of mine had done a little project for school, which involved asking people out of the blue to name a random number between 1 and 10. If I remember correctly, 7 was the first number which came to mind in around 75% of the people he asked. Might be something like that 
I would be quite surprised if you had any real answers on this one. I couldn't find any on the web, but maybe someone with some more background knows. In my mind, God just decided it would be 7. Not 8, not 5, not even 20381, just 7. He had to make a choice, and I kinda like His choice (although an extra day in the week would be nice sometimes). 
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Tom
`Contrariwise,' continued Tweedledee, `if it was so, it might be; and if it were so, it would be; but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic.'
-Through the Looking Glass by Lewis Caroll- |
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ConsequentAtheist
SFN Regular
641 Posts |
Posted - 04/29/2004 : 03:19:51 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by tomk80
I'm suspecting that God likes prime numbers. 3 is a holy number, 7 is.
3: Earth, Sun, Moon - the biggies
7: One fourth (1 phase) of the lunar month |
For the philosophical naturalist, the rejection of supernaturalism is a case of "death by a thousand cuts." -- Barbara Forrest, Ph.D. |
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welshdean
Skeptic Friend
United Kingdom
172 Posts |
Posted - 04/29/2004 : 07:33:00 [Permalink]
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Ricky, sorry mate, but I couldn't resist, you asked:
quote:
What exactly do angles do?
ANGLE
(noun [C])
1) the space between two lines or surfaces at the point at which they touch each other, measured in degrees:
The interior angles of a square are right angles or angles of 90 degrees.
The boat settled into the mud at a 35 degree angle/an angle of 35 degrees.
The picture was hanging at an angle.
He wore his hat at a jaunty angle (= not straight or vertical).
See also angular.
2) the corner of a building, table or anything with straight sides
ANGLED (verb [T])
The stage had been steeply angled (= was sloping very noticeably).
ANGLED (adjective)
His angled shot (= from the side, not from straight in front) beat the goalkeeper from 20 yards.
(from Cambridge Advanced Learner's Dictionary)
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"Frazier is so ugly he should donate his face to the US Bureau of Wild Life."
"I am America. I am the part you won't recognize, but get used to me. Black, confident, cocky. My name, not yours. My religion, not yours. My goals, my own. Get used to me."
"Service to others is the rent you pay for your room here on earth."
---- Muhammad Ali
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 04/29/2004 : 08:10:29 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Ricky
What exactly do angles do? If god is infinite as Christians believe he is, then why does he need angles to do work for him? Can he not do infinitly many things at the same time (and besides that, you claim he lives outside of time and space, right?). Why did it take 7 days for god to create the universe (Genisis), couldn't he just do it with a snap of the finger (or not even that, just thinking it). Why did he rest on the 7th day? What does it take for an infinitly strong being to get tired? All of these things seem to point out that god is not all powerful. Is there an explaination for these things?
Angels are supposed to be the messengers and heralds of God to man. (The whole, "If you look upon the face of God, you will die" thing that seemed to be convieniently forgotten for Moses.) They are also supposed to act as agents (sometimes investigators) of God.
The creation story is one of those things where something had to exist before something else type of deals. (can't have fish before water, etc.) The Omnicient/Omnipresent God is religious dogma which is unsupported by the Bible. Especially in the Old Testament.
Dogma tried to explain such things as you describe only to a point. Sometimes, the answer is "it just happened that way because God wanted it to". (Not compelling nor logical, but neither is religion)
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Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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tomk80
SFN Regular
Netherlands
1278 Posts |
Posted - 04/29/2004 : 09:02:46 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by ConsequentAtheist
quote:
Originally posted by tomk80
I'm suspecting that God likes prime numbers. 3 is a holy number, 7 is.
3: Earth, Sun, Moon - the biggies
7: One fourth (1 phase) of the lunar month
Already thought about that. God could have made 4 biggies, or made a lunar month 36 days in stead of 28. I stick to my point. God likes primes. |
Tom
`Contrariwise,' continued Tweedledee, `if it was so, it might be; and if it were so, it would be; but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic.'
-Through the Looking Glass by Lewis Caroll- |
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furshur
SFN Regular
USA
1536 Posts |
Posted - 04/29/2004 : 09:30:00 [Permalink]
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| I like the whole fallen angel thing. Why would satan fight God? Does he think he might win??? I think this goes back to the older belief that God must not have actually been omnipotent, otherwise the fith makes no sense. |
If I knew then what I know now then I would know more now than I know. |
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Trish
SFN Addict
USA
2102 Posts |
Posted - 04/29/2004 : 09:30:31 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by tomk80
quote:
Originally posted by ConsequentAtheist
quote:
Originally posted by tomk80
I'm suspecting that God likes prime numbers. 3 is a holy number, 7 is.
3: Earth, Sun, Moon - the biggies
7: One fourth (1 phase) of the lunar month
Already thought about that. God could have made 4 biggies, or made a lunar month 36 days in stead of 28. I stick to my point. God likes primes.
Eh but the lunar month isn't exactly 28 days, it's 29.531 days. Now it's apparent that god doesn't like whole numbers either. Look at the stunts we went through to keep the calendar on track before the leap year idea. |
...no one has ever found a 4.5 billion year old stone artifact (at the right geological stratum) with the words "Made by God."
No Sense of Obligation by Matt Young
"Say what you will about the sweet miracle of unquestioning faith. I consider the capacity for it terrifying and vile!"
Mother Night by Kurt Vonnegut, Jr.
They (Women Marines) don't have a nickname, and they don't need one. They get their basic training in a Marine atmosphere, at a Marine Post. They inherit the traditions of the Marines. They are Marines.
LtGen Thomas Holcomb, USMC
Commandant of the Marine Corps, 1943
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tomk80
SFN Regular
Netherlands
1278 Posts |
Posted - 04/29/2004 : 09:42:49 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Trish
Eh but the lunar month isn't exactly 28 days, it's 29.531 days. Now it's apparent that god doesn't like whole numbers either. Look at the stunts we went through to keep the calendar on track before the leap year idea.
Okay, let me rephrase. God likes numbers that we, as mere mortals, can approximate with primes. |
Tom
`Contrariwise,' continued Tweedledee, `if it was so, it might be; and if it were so, it would be; but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic.'
-Through the Looking Glass by Lewis Caroll- |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 04/29/2004 : 10:20:10 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by furshur
I like the whole fallen angel thing. Why would satan fight God? Does he think he might win??? I think this goes back to the older belief that God must not have actually been omnipotent, otherwise the fith makes no sense.
For every God, there must be a force which qualifies as an anti-God. There has to be a measure by which the Correctness(tm) of God can be determined.
Judeo-Christianity:
God: God, Elohim, Jehoviah, etc
Anti-God: Satan, Belezebub, Old Scratch, the Devil, etc
Wicca
God: a central creative force in the universe coupled with a central destructive force in the universe with the purpose of building something better
Anti-God: a central destructive force in the universe with the purpose of destruction for it's own sake.
Buddhaism:
God: none
Anti-God: None
Satan's purpose is to tempt morals to see if they will remain faithful to God. So in this aspect, he serves as a servant of God to cull the faithful. |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard
USA
4907 Posts |
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tomk80
SFN Regular
Netherlands
1278 Posts |
Posted - 04/29/2004 : 23:29:16 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Ricky
Well, I don't remeber seeing any Bible passeges that support the Devil is a fallen angle. Now you have said that God uses angles as messengers, but can he not be the messenger himself? Is he limitted to a power less the UPS?
The fallen angel is based on Revelation 12: vs 7-9:
quote:
7. And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8. And prevailed not: neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9. And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
For a more comprehensive description:
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/04764a.htm
About the whole messenger thingie. Didn't Valiant Dancer answer that already. I think that's the best answer you'll be able to get. |
Tom
`Contrariwise,' continued Tweedledee, `if it was so, it might be; and if it were so, it would be; but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic.'
-Through the Looking Glass by Lewis Caroll- |
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Trish
SFN Addict
USA
2102 Posts |
Posted - 04/30/2004 : 09:43:43 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by tomk80
quote:
Originally posted by Trish
Eh but the lunar month isn't exactly 28 days, it's 29.531 days. Now it's apparent that god doesn't like whole numbers either. Look at the stunts we went through to keep the calendar on track before the leap year idea.
Okay, let me rephrase. God likes numbers that we, as mere mortals, can approximate with primes.
OK, Sounds good to me, why don't we have 4 day weeks and 7 weeks per month? You don't have to answer, I'm being contrary today. |
...no one has ever found a 4.5 billion year old stone artifact (at the right geological stratum) with the words "Made by God."
No Sense of Obligation by Matt Young
"Say what you will about the sweet miracle of unquestioning faith. I consider the capacity for it terrifying and vile!"
Mother Night by Kurt Vonnegut, Jr.
They (Women Marines) don't have a nickname, and they don't need one. They get their basic training in a Marine atmosphere, at a Marine Post. They inherit the traditions of the Marines. They are Marines.
LtGen Thomas Holcomb, USMC
Commandant of the Marine Corps, 1943
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tw101356
Skeptic Friend
USA
333 Posts |
Posted - 04/30/2004 : 10:47:10 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Trish
Now it's apparent that god doesn't like whole numbers either.
Would that be because god is irrational or because he's transcendental? Then again, maybe he's just imaginary.
- TW |
- TW
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard
USA
4907 Posts |
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Trish
SFN Addict
USA
2102 Posts |
Posted - 04/30/2004 : 21:38:33 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by tw101356
quote:
Originally posted by Trish
Now it's apparent that god doesn't like whole numbers either.
Would that be because god is irrational or because he's transcendental? Then again, maybe he's just imaginary.
- TW
Ooh, can I pick irrational and imaginary. Pleeeeease.... |
...no one has ever found a 4.5 billion year old stone artifact (at the right geological stratum) with the words "Made by God."
No Sense of Obligation by Matt Young
"Say what you will about the sweet miracle of unquestioning faith. I consider the capacity for it terrifying and vile!"
Mother Night by Kurt Vonnegut, Jr.
They (Women Marines) don't have a nickname, and they don't need one. They get their basic training in a Marine atmosphere, at a Marine Post. They inherit the traditions of the Marines. They are Marines.
LtGen Thomas Holcomb, USMC
Commandant of the Marine Corps, 1943
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