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tomk80
SFN Regular
Netherlands
1278 Posts |
 Posted - 05/03/2004 : 13:02:16
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Hi everybody,
During a discussion about Chi on the Christian forums, a hindu posted the following picture of a Yogi meditating in an extremely cold area in the himalaya:
http://www.atributetohinduism.com/images/yogi_himalaya3.JPG
Although I don't doubt that something like this could be achieved through meditation, the picture seems strange to me. I get the idea that the Yogi on the rock on the foreground doesn't fit in with the background. However, this could be a result of the perspective of the photo, or it could just be me. So my question to you, is there anybody here who can tell me whether this is a genuine picture or whether it is faked?
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Tom
`Contrariwise,' continued Tweedledee, `if it was so, it might be; and if it were so, it would be; but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic.'
-Through the Looking Glass by Lewis Caroll- |
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tw101356
Skeptic Friend
USA
333 Posts |
Posted - 05/03/2004 : 13:40:31 [Permalink]
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Hard to tell. Nothing in the background casting a shadow the same way as the yogi, but the resolution is low and it's hard to tell if anything in the background could cast much of a shadow.
If you check out the photoshop contests on fark.com or b3ta.com or somethingawful.com you'll see some quality work that looks unbelieveably real. You know it's a joke, but a good PS user can merge and blend anything.
Then again, what's the photo supposed to prove? I've seen pix of Alaskan and Greenland Inuit running around equally frozen looking landscapes in shorts and sneakers. Acclimatisation doesn't require meditation.
- TW
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- TW
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 05/03/2004 : 13:41:15 [Permalink]
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Whoo! He can have the joy of that and welcome to it!
The photo does indeed look a little wrong. The rocks don't seem to match the terrain, as if they were from another place. But remember, what I know about photography is only slightly more than I know about string theory, so any opinion I give on it is open to doubt.
Good pic even if faked, though.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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Randy
SFN Regular
USA
1990 Posts |
Posted - 05/03/2004 : 14:40:37 [Permalink]
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tomtk80, I just watched a bit on a Natural Geographic program last night. A number of Russian Polar Bear club members were doing their thing, jumping near butt-naked into a hacked-out hole in the river ice. Outdoor temp at that time was stated to be -30f.
Oh, the pic of the meditative Yogi, big yawn. Might be a 'un-molested' image. What are they trying to claim, this guy can keep his ass from freezing to death? Yeah, sure - maybe for 5 minutes, but beyond that, that depends on the ambient temperature, wind chill.
Just a wild guess - let's say the temp is at least 20f (snow is in the pic), with a bit of wind. By supper the next day, he'd be as dead and stiff as the rock he's yogi'in' on. |
"We are all connected; to each other biologically, to the earth chemically, to the rest of the universe atomically."
"So you're made of detritus [from exploded stars]. Get over it. Or better yet, celebrate it. After all, what nobler thought can one cherish than that the universe lives within us all?"
-Neil DeGrasse Tyson |
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Randy
SFN Regular
USA
1990 Posts |
Posted - 05/03/2004 : 15:03:51 [Permalink]
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Besides, if the above is a undoctored image, whose to say what's just behind the camera, a big warm Winnebago?
Here's my rather crude '5 minute' additions....
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"We are all connected; to each other biologically, to the earth chemically, to the rest of the universe atomically."
"So you're made of detritus [from exploded stars]. Get over it. Or better yet, celebrate it. After all, what nobler thought can one cherish than that the universe lives within us all?"
-Neil DeGrasse Tyson |
| Edited by - Randy on 05/03/2004 15:04:15 |
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Woody D
Skeptic Friend
Thailand
285 Posts |
Posted - 05/03/2004 : 18:58:39 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by tw101356
Hard to tell. Nothing in the background casting a shadow the same way as the yogi, but the resolution is low and it's hard to tell if anything in the background could cast much of a shadow.
Yes, I too studied the shadows and you are right, it is difficult. The back ground is a bit blured but IMO I did think the shadows are NOT correct, as good as they maybe tried to make it look. And the man does look out of place with the depth of field of the background. Like a cutout. The sharpness of the figure is almost as sharp (in this case, not sharp) so either the photographer was bad or it is a pasted photo. (I mean, the figure should have been way sharper). BUT, one can do a lot with photos. It's really not true that photos don't lie. 
BTW, if it's a digital, (I HATE Digital), then it's even more difficult to tell let alone being on the computer. On second look, the background looks like a real camera and the person looks digital I could be wrong, but also he does look cut out. Look closely at his thumb and elbow, a few parts of the photo look blended too. Guess if it is real, they wanted to make it look better!
Even if it is real I always like to know what is used to take any given photo.
Ok, hey, I tried.
No charge for critique but donations accepted. |
www.Carabao.net
As long as there's, you know, sex and drugs, I can do without the rock and roll.
Mick Shrimpton
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Tim
SFN Regular
USA
775 Posts |
Posted - 05/04/2004 : 03:19:49 [Permalink]
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First, I studied the moron on the rock. His rigid body posture and generally stiff demeanor added to his forward thrusted jaw suggests he's freezing his ass off. Plus, there is a slight fog on his lower lip suggesting visible breath. Their, also, appears to be a small breeze blowing generally into his face as seen by the forward hair position which would quickly diffuse the visible breath. In other words, we would not expect to see a small breath cloud in front of the nut case.
All shadows are consistent. The source of light is almost directly overhead, but a bit low nearest the camera and very slightly to the rear of the meditating meathead. This suggests a winter sun near mid-day with the man facing generally east. Furthermore, because of the nature of the source of the light, it makes details in the picture seem somewhat disjointed. This is why all shadows are almost directly below their sources. With a similar summertime sun, the photo would appear very flat, with little dimensionality. However, the winter sun will add a somewhat unnatural dimensionality because of the small, dark, straight down shadows. I suspect high altitudes can have the same effect, but I can't be sure. All of my photography is done at or below sea level--I live in Louisiana!
Finally, I checked the photo at the pixel level. I found no irregularities, and the blending is consistent throughout the picture. If this photo is a cut and paste, clone tool cleaned digital image, the work is beautiful. Such work would have taken hours at the pixel level.
Does all of this mean the photo is real?
No...
But, I will say that the work involved with staging and choosing the appropriate background and the digital work would not be warranted for such a photo of limited artistic quality. Plus, I have only seen a copy of a copy. Therefore, there is little means to measure technical quality.
But, that's just my opinion as an advanced amateur photographer...whose been reduced to shooting only snapshots for the past couple of years. |
"We got an issue in America. Too many good docs are gettin' out of business. Too many OB/GYNs aren't able to practice their -- their love with women all across this country." Dubya in Poplar Bluff, Missouri, 9/6/2004
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Maglev
Skeptic Friend
Canada
65 Posts |
Posted - 05/04/2004 : 11:31:16 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Randy
Oh, the pic of the meditative Yogi, big yawn. Might be a 'un-molested' image. What are they trying to claim, this guy can keep his ass from freezing to death? Yeah, sure - maybe for 5 minutes, but beyond that, that depends on the ambient temperature, wind chill.
Yeah, bring me an avi file, I might be convinced... Then again, if he manages to stay on his rock for hours without freezing, someone should tell him that he could easily win a cool million (yes, pun) from Randi's foundation. Oh, right, yogis are above such things as money.
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Maglev
"The awe it inspired in me made the awe that people talk about in respect of religious experience seem, frankly, silly beside it. I'd take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance any day."
--Douglas Adams, on evolutionary biology. |
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Woody D
Skeptic Friend
Thailand
285 Posts |
Posted - 05/05/2004 : 19:53:22 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Tim
All shadows are consistent. The source of light is almost directly overhead, but a bit low nearest the camera and very slightly to the rear of the meditating meathead. This suggests a winter sun near mid-day with the man facing generally east. Furthermore, because of the nature of the source of the light, it makes details in the picture seem somewhat disjointed.
But, that's just my opinion as an advanced amateur photographer...whose been reduced to shooting only snapshots for the past couple of years.
From one photographer to another I respectfully disagree. Having a print would be best, at least for me in order to examine it better. But as TW said, in so many words.......who cares why or what is't for. Just something interesting, I guess and to those who believe in it, what would it take to convince them it's not real, and does it make a difference to anyone who doesn't believe?
BTW, I too have only been taking snapshots. Quick but unrewarding. |
www.Carabao.net
As long as there's, you know, sex and drugs, I can do without the rock and roll.
Mick Shrimpton
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tomk80
SFN Regular
Netherlands
1278 Posts |
Posted - 05/05/2004 : 22:31:26 [Permalink]
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Guys, thank you for your feedback. Unfortunately, the link to the picture I have here is the only thing I've got.
For the discussion itself the photo was minor. I just thought it was fishy, and wondered what other, more experienced people thought. The original claim made in the discussion was that the yogi sat like this for days because of his mastery of prana. It turns out that for me it really is impossible to decide whether this claim was originally made in the first place, rendering the whole discussion about it useless.
Again, thanks for your efforts. I really enjoyed your posts. |
Tom
`Contrariwise,' continued Tweedledee, `if it was so, it might be; and if it were so, it would be; but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic.'
-Through the Looking Glass by Lewis Caroll- |
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Computer Org
Skeptic Friend
392 Posts |
Posted - 05/07/2004 : 08:59:37 [Permalink]
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For whatever it's worth: Once I was out walking the Dog in a Michigan winter with a foot or so of snow on the ground. I was wearing a heavy parka and after a mile+ walk through the woods we stopped for a rest near a lake. I lay down in the snow but the Sun was warm and so I peeled off everything above the waist and laid back, quite warm. The temp was in the 20's (F) and there was no wind.
Real or not, the guy in the photo has only minimal contact with the ground. If the wind weren't blowing and the Sun was out full as it appears to be, then I have no problem with the pic, having personally "been there; done that". :))
On the other hand, the photo does appear to be fake. |
Do thou amend thy face, and I'll amend my life. --Falstaff |
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Woody D
Skeptic Friend
Thailand
285 Posts |
Posted - 05/07/2004 : 20:18:41 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Computer Org
Real or not, the guy in the photo has only minimal contact with the ground. If the wind weren't blowing and the Sun was out full as it appears to be, then I have no problem with the pic, having personally "been there; done that". :))
On the other hand, the photo does appear to be fake.
Sure, that's right. People ski here (in California) all the time with shorts and T shirts. Didn't mention that because I thought the photo was what was in question. And as far as being in the cold or hot, one can control their body....or not, haha. I'm always cold, even in the summer, hate airconditioners, so my room mate and I fight every time we are in the car. He puts it on, even in the winter and I have to cover with a blanket and gloves, even in the summer.
And Org, you are right, real or not the photo looks fake. |
www.Carabao.net
As long as there's, you know, sex and drugs, I can do without the rock and roll.
Mick Shrimpton
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Computer Org
Skeptic Friend
392 Posts |
Posted - 05/17/2004 : 06:16:40 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Woody D
. . . ski here (in California). . . .
Aha. But are you in Thailand (as it says under your name/handle) or are you "here in California"?
I confess (and admit) that I left a (small) piece of my spirit (and my mind . . . whatever that is) in Bangkok back in 1965. It's a place that's hard to get out of your head. I can understand if you sort of think of yourself as being in both places. ;) |
Do thou amend thy face, and I'll amend my life. --Falstaff |
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