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 Deconstructing the Walls of Jericho
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Kil
Evil Skeptic

USA
13477 Posts

Posted - 05/03/2004 :  14:21:38  Show Profile  Visit Kil's Homepage  Send Kil an AOL message  Send Kil a Yahoo! Message Send Kil a Private Message
I found this fasinating...

quote:

A Journal of History, Geography, Language and Archaeology

By Professor Ze'ev Herzog, Tel Aviv University
Deconstructing the Walls of Jericho

Following 70 years of intensive excavations in the Land of Israel, archaeologists have found out: The patriarchs' acts are legendary, the Israelites did not sojourn in Egypt or make an exodus, they did not conquer the land. Neither is there any mention of the empire of David and Solomon, nor of the source of belief in the God of Israel. These facts have been known for years, but Israel is a stubborn people and nobody wants to hear about

This is what archaeologists have learned from their excavations in the Land of Israel: the Israelites were never in Egypt, did not wander in the desert, did not conquer the land in a military campaign and did not pass it on to the 12 tribes of Israel. Perhaps even harder to swallow is the fact that the united monarchy of David and Solomon, which is described by the Bible as a regional power, was at most a small tribal kingdom. And it will come as an unpleasant shock to many that the God of Israel, Jehovah, had a female consort and that the early Israelite religion adopted monotheism only in the waning period of the monarchy and not at Mount Sinai.Most of those who are engaged in scientific work in the interlocking spheres of the Bible, archaeology and the history of the Jewish people - and who once went into the field looking for proof to corroborate the Bible story - now agree that the historic events relating to the stages of the Jewish people's emergence are radically different from what that story tells.
What follows is a short account of the brief history of archaeology, with the emphasis on the crises and the big bang, so to speak, of the past decade. The critical question of this archaeological revolution has not yet trickled down into public consciousness, but it cannot be ignored.


Read the rest of this at:
http://antiguo.editthispage.com/jericho

Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.

Why not question something for a change?

Genetic Literacy Project

filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 05/03/2004 :  16:52:53   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message
Font's too small for me to read but the posted quote pretty well tells the tale.

Ancient stories often have a kernel of fact. This gets embellished upon until it is all but unrecognizable. And if the real story can't be made exciting enough, it gets shunted aside in favor of something more to a listener's liking. Wandering in the desert and scarfing manna is much more interesting than grubbing subsistance gardens and herding goats in a pretty harsh land.




"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

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ConsequentAtheist
SFN Regular

641 Posts

Posted - 05/03/2004 :  20:09:48   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send ConsequentAtheist a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Kil

I found this fasinating ...
Yes, but it's rather old news.

For the philosophical naturalist, the rejection of supernaturalism is a case of "death by a thousand cuts." -- Barbara Forrest, Ph.D.
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Kil
Evil Skeptic

USA
13477 Posts

Posted - 05/03/2004 :  21:35:46   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Kil's Homepage  Send Kil an AOL message  Send Kil a Yahoo! Message Send Kil a Private Message
True, I saw the date. It was news to me though...

Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.

Why not question something for a change?

Genetic Literacy Project
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Infamous
Skeptic Friend

85 Posts

Posted - 05/04/2004 :  11:50:31   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Infamous a Private Message
Most of this article is false. I wonder where the author could have possibly gotten his information, since so much of it contradicts known archaeological facts.

The Israelites' sojourn in Egypt has been proven to be factual. Buildings identified as early Israelite architecture have been found in Goshen, Egypt. These U-shaped buildings are the prototype of Israelite buildings found in Palestine hundreds of years later. Solomon's temple was based on this same architectural style.

The Israelites' conquest of Canaan has been proven to be factual as well. Letters were sent from Canaanite tribes to Egypt about 40 years after the "early" Exodus date, pleading for military assistance in defending the last from nomadic invaders. These invaders were called "apiru", which is the origin of the word Hebrew. The letter stated that, without Egypt's help, "all of Canaan will be lost". Help from Egypt never came, and Canaan did indeed fall to the Israelites.
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furshur
SFN Regular

USA
1536 Posts

Posted - 05/04/2004 :  12:09:35   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send furshur a Private Message
Infamous,

Very interesting... could you please site your sources. Many of the points you brought up as fact I have not seen. I would be interested in researching it.

Thanks.



If I knew then what I know now then I would know more now than I know.
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26022 Posts

Posted - 05/04/2004 :  13:03:53   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message
Actually, it might be interesting to see the sources for the original article, as well. I didn't see a single citation in it, just a lot of "archeologists found blah-de-blah" assertions.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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rickm
Skeptic Friend

Canada
109 Posts

Posted - 05/04/2004 :  16:11:28   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send rickm a Private Message





quote:
antiguo
A Journal of History, Geography, Language and Archaeology
About This Site

Antiguo is a journal of my discoveries made while fossicking through the world wide web in search of interesting snippets about history, geography, language and archaeology . These gewgaws are first sifted from the rubble on the basis of their interest or entertainment value. Afterwards, they are polished up and presented, hopefully, for your enjoyment.


On the basis of their interest or entertainment value. Hmm!

[Edited for the sole reason of adding quotes]

How can I believe in God when just last week I got my tongue caught in the roller of an electric typewriter?
-- Woody Allen, Without Feathers, 1975
Edited by - rickm on 05/04/2004 16:19:55
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ConsequentAtheist
SFN Regular

641 Posts

Posted - 05/04/2004 :  16:16:37   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send ConsequentAtheist a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Infamous

The Israelites' sojourn in Egypt has been proven to be factual.
Absolute rubbish.

For the philosophical naturalist, the rejection of supernaturalism is a case of "death by a thousand cuts." -- Barbara Forrest, Ph.D.
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ConsequentAtheist
SFN Regular

641 Posts

Posted - 05/04/2004 :  16:27:41   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send ConsequentAtheist a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.

Actually, it might be interesting to see the sources for the original article, as well. I didn't see a single citation in it, just a lot of "archeologists found blah-de-blah" assertions.

It was a newspaper article. On the other hand, the works of Dever, Finkelstein, Isserlin, Laughlin, Mazar, and Redford are replete with citations. You may also findof interest.

For the philosophical naturalist, the rejection of supernaturalism is a case of "death by a thousand cuts." -- Barbara Forrest, Ph.D.
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist

USA
4955 Posts

Posted - 05/06/2004 :  20:41:53   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Cuneiformist a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Infamous

Most of this article is false. I wonder where the author could have possibly gotten his information, since so much of it contradicts known archaeological facts.

[...]

The Israelites' conquest of Canaan has been proven to be factual as well. Letters were sent from Canaanite tribes to Egypt about 40 years after the "early" Exodus date, pleading for military assistance in defending the last from nomadic invaders. These invaders were called "apiru", which is the origin of the word Hebrew. The letter stated that, without Egypt's help, "all of Canaan will be lost". Help from Egypt never came, and Canaan did indeed fall to the Israelites.



Actually, it's your assertions which are false. The letters acout which you speak are called in the scholarly literature the 'Amarna Letters', in reference to the site where they were found. They date to the 14th century BC. Our best extra-biblical evidence for Israel comes in the form of the so-called 'Mernepta Stele' ca. 1207 BC, which refers to Israel as a foerign people, but not a geographic location. This strongly suggests that Israel was not a state by the end of the 13th century, meaning that the Amarna letters cannot be speaking of "Hebrews." (It might be worth adding that those who consider the Exodus to have been a real event tend to date it to the time of Ramses II, Mernepta's father. The stele's inscription fits in well with this notion.)

In fact, the region of Syro-Palestine (modern Israel plus Lebanon and parts of Jordan and Syria) remained under Egyptian control at least until the middle of the 12th century BCE. More interesting is the debate regarding the so-called 'conquest' of Canaan. Indeed, the Bible itself seems to contradict exactly how things happened (compare Joshua (which chronologically is to have happened first) with Judges).

Not being an archeologist I cannot speak too much about what that portion of the evidence has to say (though as an aside, I'd like to add that Solomon's temple was most certainly more like a typical Canaanite temple sructure than an Egyptian one). Nonetheless, my understanding is that the picture is not entirely clear. Aptly (but frustratingly), this lack of clarity is also apparent from the written sources.

In any event, the linking of the hapiru with the word Hebrew is dubious at best. The literature on the topic is myriad (I can provide references, though unfortunately some of the most extensive are in German), but the general conclusion has been that the hapiru of the Amarna letters are not the Hebrews of the Bible, despite the Gleichklang.

I imagine that the article came on the heels of/in anticipation of Israel Finkelstein's book The Bible Unearthed, where he (and co-author Neil Silberman) take a particularly minimalist view of things. They are in the minority, however, and most Biblical scholars take a more moderate, middle-of-the-road view.
Edited by - Cuneiformist on 05/06/2004 20:48:59
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ConsequentAtheist
SFN Regular

641 Posts

Posted - 05/07/2004 :  06:49:50   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send ConsequentAtheist a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Infamous

Letters were sent from Canaanite tribes to Egypt about 40 years after the "early" Exodus date, pleading for military assistance in defending the last from nomadic invaders. These invaders were called "apiru", which is the origin of the word Hebrew.

Cuneiformist is absolutely correct. In fact, even the Christian Resource Institute rejects such silliness:
quote:
3) The Amarna Tablets

Amarna is the modern name of the ancient Egyptian city of Akhetaten. It was established briefly as the capitol of Egypt around 1400-1350 BC by pharaoh Akhetaten, who attempted to reform Egypt's religious system and inaugurate the worship of a single deity represented by the sun disk (Aten). That experiment was a failure and the city only existed for 15 to 20 years before being abandoned. Archaeologists discovered a cache of letters at the site written on clay tablets from various city officials throughout the area including Canaan. Some of these letters are appeals to Akhetaten for help in defending against the ‘Apiru (Hapiru, Khapiru) who were threatening the cities of Canaan. This could have been the Hebrews who were invading the land and challenging the Canaanite city-states. If the ‘Apiru were the Hebrews, the date of the Amarna letters would suggest a date for the exodus from Egypt sometime in the mid to latter 15th century.

Difficulties Raised: While it was common in the period immediately following the discovery of the Amarna tablets to identify the ‘Apiru with the Hebrews, further investigation has raised serious doubts about that identification. The identification was originally made largely on the assumption that the word ‘Apiru was actually the linguistic root for the word Hebrew. However, scholars concluded that the term is actually Sumerian (the area of later Babylonian) in origin and dates much earlier than the Hebrews. The term was used throughout the Middle East to refer to groups who lived on the margins of civilized society, outcasts who were often hired as mercenaries. While the term is not linguistically related to the term Hebrew, it is possible that it could have been applied to the Israelites. However, since the term was simply descriptive of a range of people without reference to any national or ethnic origins, there is absolutely no evidence that the references in the Amarna letters can be identified specifically with the Israelites. That eliminates any use of the Amarna letters in trying to date the exodus.

- see Christian Resource Institute: The Date of the Exodus

See, also, The Old Testament and the Ancient Near East Habiru.


For the philosophical naturalist, the rejection of supernaturalism is a case of "death by a thousand cuts." -- Barbara Forrest, Ph.D.
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