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Starman
SFN Regular
Sweden
1613 Posts |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 05/05/2004 : 06:55:58 [Permalink]
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In another article, I read that Moore can distribute through another company, but the finantial loss would be large. I assume it would also require a release from Miramax.
Never did much like Disney, ever since I read that the late Walt was a snitch for McCarthy.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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Renae
SFN Regular
543 Posts |
Posted - 05/05/2004 : 17:25:49 [Permalink]
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More evidence of those wacky Hollywood liberals. *coughsnort*
Shame on Disney. |
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gezzam
SFN Regular
Australia
751 Posts |
Posted - 05/05/2004 : 18:45:59 [Permalink]
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Michael Moore to Disney.....
"Thanks for the free publicity guys"
Your great country is really going pear shaped at the moment..... |
Mistakes are a part of being human. Appreciate your mistakes for what they are: precious life lessons that can only be learned the hard way. Unless it's a fatal mistake, which, at least, others can learn from.
Al Franken |
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Woody D
Skeptic Friend
Thailand
285 Posts |
Posted - 05/05/2004 : 19:37:48 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Renae
More evidence of those wacky Hollywood liberals. *coughsnort*
Shame on Disney.
I just now heard that Mr. Moore had known about Disneys decission for a year. How is it NOW that the story is coming out? Funny that it's about to be shown at the festival.
Hollywood liberals??? Perhaps the saying 'Any publicity is good publicity.' is true. Who is going to benifit more from this. The key word being Moore.
gezzam:
quote:
Michael Moore to Disney.....
"Thanks for the free publicity guys"
Yes, well. Moore is good at that (getting publicity). (See above statement.) Just as he is good at twisting 'facts'.
And just to let you know, I was a former DIS stock holder. A company has every right to make whatever business desicssions it feels nessasary for the good of the stock holders. Mr. Moore can't dictate what HE thinks is best.
Shall we be a little Skeptical here! |
www.Carabao.net
As long as there's, you know, sex and drugs, I can do without the rock and roll.
Mick Shrimpton
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@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
Posted - 05/05/2004 : 21:34:09 [Permalink]
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Shall we be skeptical?
Moore most likely did not finance this new film so while he will no doubt benefit it is the producers who stand to benefit the most. Disney may have the right to make their own business decisions but it is the right and responsibility of every American to make them pay dearly for such a piss poor decision. This is your standard business ethics course argument.
Yes, business can act as they want.
Their decisions can cost them.
Take offshoring. many businesses are shipping jobs overseas but some businesses will make it a selling point that they have an All-American call center that you can actually understand. You know what? I might be inclined to buy from such a company even if the outsourcer saved me $10 on a $500 purchase. Why? Because I vote with my dollars and the unethical corporation that sees only the bottom line sees none of my hard earned money.
That's your right and it's your responsibility.
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Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law!
Sportsbettingacumen.com: The science of sports betting |
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Woody D
Skeptic Friend
Thailand
285 Posts |
Posted - 05/06/2004 : 20:10:12 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by @tomic
Moore most likely did not finance this new film so while he will no doubt benefit it is the producers who stand to benefit the most. Disney may have the right to make their own business decisions but it is the right and responsibility of every American to make them pay dearly for such a piss poor decision. This is your standard business ethics course argument.
You seemed to have missed the point.
quote:
Take offshoring. many businesses are shipping jobs overseas but some businesses will make it a selling point that they have an All-American call center that you can actually understand. You know what? I might be inclined to buy from such a company even if the outsourcer saved me $10 on a $500 purchase. Why? Because I vote with my dollars and the unethical corporation that sees only the bottom line sees none of my hard earned money.
That's right, America right or wrong.....whatever!
Your 'vote' will cost more jobs not less. If the damn unions didn't cause prices to be so high through higer wages and those idiot congressman and other polititions who want a minimun wage would leave things alone we'd have jobs here. Although I still wouldn't buy American, with the bad attitude and poor workmanship of today. |
www.Carabao.net
As long as there's, you know, sex and drugs, I can do without the rock and roll.
Mick Shrimpton
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@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
Posted - 05/06/2004 : 22:35:10 [Permalink]
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I don't think I missed the point at all.
If all that matters to someone is price then they get what they deserve. The most highly rated automobiles are made in Japan but the US companies don't outsource to Japan for much. Maybe jet plane parts and not much else. This is not just about the USA and don't try and distract anyone with that because it's not what the facts show. All inustrialized nations show a decline in the manufacturing sector of their economy. You sound like you would like to see a return to the world of 1900 where hard working people earn next to nothing after 16 hours a day. I would turn FOX TV off and stop listening to conservative TV commentators who send their children to sleep with full bellies and think about your neighbor, your friends and maybe even your family. Look, I waved to Bill Gates as he drove home today. The dude live like 3 blocks away. It's not exactly a rough neighborhood but I still realize that minimum wage is shit. Unions have helped make America what is is. Unions are not the problem. Do you think people want to migrate here so that they can starve to death on the street? If you think that's true, maybe you should ask your doctor to adjust your prescription. Unions and the members that fought and died for a better life that made this country what it is. It's not the aristrocracy casting breadcrumbs to the downtrodden expecting them to call it ice cream. People gave up their lives so that you could sit here and bitch about it as if you had a clue as to what they gave up so you could.
If it wasn't for them you would probably not even be alive now. You would most likely have a life expectancy of about 40. You wouldn't be able to read. But no, you can sit here and bitch about the very people that made all this possible. First up is FDR that no doubt introduced the very legislation that pays your rent and next on the list is that bad old Lyndon Johnson and his crappy idea of health care for everyone. hell, it works for almost every other country on the planet but for some reason Americans are too stupid to find a way to make it work. What the fuck is up with that shit? Does the Statue of Libery say: Give us your poor, your downtrodden complainers yearning to bitch about everyone while still collecting a check?
Give me a break. It's not as if the poor in this country are calling the shots and making your life a living hell. You need to think this all the way through. Just why does a person work their entire lives with the promise of their needs being met only to find that the needs of stockholders, that have never missed a meal, are far more important than their useless lives. Shut the goddamn FOX news off and look outiside and check out what the truth is. Unions are not the problem. Immigrants are not the problem. Or are they Woody? You going home then? The problem is not lazy welfare people. The problem is people like you who repeat what other people say without having any idea what the hell they are talking about.
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Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law!
Sportsbettingacumen.com: The science of sports betting |
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Woody D
Skeptic Friend
Thailand
285 Posts |
Posted - 05/07/2004 : 01:27:13 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by @tomic
Shut the goddamn FOX news off and look outiside and check out what the truth is. Unions are not the problem. Immigrants are not the problem. Or are they Woody? You going home then? The problem is not lazy welfare people. The problem is people like you who repeat what other people say without having any idea what the hell they are talking about.
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LOL, I'm laughing my ass off even though I belive you are serious.
Hum! Where do I begin? I don't know, so I won't.
Other than to say, I don't know anything about Ch. 11 news execpt that Steve Edwards is on in the morning with these two stupid women and from the commericials I've seen for the show (never saw it myself), it looks like all they do is chit chat about nonsense. So the only thing I watch on Ch. 11 is 'The Simpsons'.
As for repeating what others say, I formed my own ideas long ago and then joined the Libertarian party because I saw that they agreeded with me. I say what I think because of what I see around me. If you have another perspective, I can't help that.
Health care is not working all that well in other countries.
And finally if I could go back to Canada I probably would. Sometimes I wish my mother never left there, however I don't think I'd like their health care system. |
www.Carabao.net
As long as there's, you know, sex and drugs, I can do without the rock and roll.
Mick Shrimpton
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 05/07/2004 : 02:31:22 [Permalink]
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Hmm. I don't think I'll get too deeply into this. Already have a couple of arguments going, here and elsewhere, that are more fun.
But I'd like to add that our current, so-called economic recovery ain't happenin', and won't until the mill hands are back to work and putting down payments on new pickups. This means ending outsourcing and where applicable, supporting unions. Plain and simple.
Corruption in the unions is still among us, true enough, but that's a different problem for another discussion.
I have a query, though: Putting the over-population question aside, Snake, what is it that you find so repugnent about universal health care?
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Renae
SFN Regular
543 Posts |
Posted - 05/07/2004 : 05:36:57 [Permalink]
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Shall we be skeptical? I'm absolutely skeptical of a capitalist ethic that says that anything--no matter how greedy, unethical, or unfair--is OK if it helps deliver a profit to stockholders.
Unions aren't the problem, Woody. At best they're barely keeping their heads above water in this greedy era. Unions actually help keep wages high for the rest of us, for one thing. For another, unions reduce the burden on taxpayers. If you don't believe me on this last one, read Bill Moyer's expose on Wal-Mart: California taxpayers pay for medical care for Wal-Mart employees because Wal-Mart refuses to pay them medical benefits or let them unionize.
Outsourcing, downsizing, wage stagnation, lack of health benefits, benefit cuts, dangerous working conditions, damaging the environment...I guess all these are OK corporate actions so long as a profit is delivered. Sorry, but that's unAmerian and unpatriotic.
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tomk80
SFN Regular
Netherlands
1278 Posts |
Posted - 05/07/2004 : 08:12:00 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Renae
Shall we be skeptical? I'm absolutely skeptical of a capitalist ethic that says that anything--no matter how greedy, unethical, or unfair--is OK if it helps deliver a profit to stockholders.
Unions aren't the problem, Woody. At best they're barely keeping their heads above water in this greedy era. Unions actually help keep wages high for the rest of us, for one thing. For another, unions reduce the burden on taxpayers. If you don't believe me on this last one, read Bill Moyer's expose on Wal-Mart: California taxpayers pay for medical care for Wal-Mart employees because Wal-Mart refuses to pay them medical benefits or let them unionize.
Outsourcing, downsizing, wage stagnation, lack of health benefits, benefit cuts, dangerous working conditions, damaging the environment...I guess all these are OK corporate actions so long as a profit is delivered. Sorry, but that's unAmerian and unpatriotic.
I'd like to add unethical to that. |
Tom
`Contrariwise,' continued Tweedledee, `if it was so, it might be; and if it were so, it would be; but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic.'
-Through the Looking Glass by Lewis Caroll- |
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Woody D
Skeptic Friend
Thailand
285 Posts |
Posted - 05/07/2004 : 10:52:32 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by filthy
I have a query, though: Putting the over-population question aside, Snake, what is it that you find so repugnent about universal health care?
Don't have a lot of time now so I hope this quick answer will sufice.
It's socialistic. I'd like to have a choice of who I want to see and the type or level of care I get.
Also doctors deserve more than to be put under too much restrictions.
nlm |
www.Carabao.net
As long as there's, you know, sex and drugs, I can do without the rock and roll.
Mick Shrimpton
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Woody D
Skeptic Friend
Thailand
285 Posts |
Posted - 05/07/2004 : 11:08:00 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Renae
capitalist ethic that says that anything--no matter how greedy, unethical, or unfair--is OK if it helps deliver a profit to stockholders.
"capitalist ethic"
Oh brother! (big yawn and sigh)
So, you got that idea from... how many stock holder meetings you've been to! Or just the aberrations of the 'Enron' type scandles?
Tell me this, are you too ethical to own stock? Or you don't want to just so you can complain?
You know, shares of SBC pays more dividends than you can get from a regular bank account. Good time to buy too, but check it out 1st for your own financial needs.
BTW, if you work for someone and you don't like it, you can quit if you think they are unethical or don't pay enough. Don't you think they want to keep good workers. It's costs them money every time they have to train someone. It's not easy being a company, they are answerable to the stock holders, because the FCC* says so. And they have to keep customers and the workers happy too. All you have to do is sit back and complain.
*fedreal trade commision.....whatever letters they use! |
www.Carabao.net
As long as there's, you know, sex and drugs, I can do without the rock and roll.
Mick Shrimpton
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| Edited by - Woody D on 05/07/2004 11:13:31 |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 05/07/2004 : 12:02:05 [Permalink]
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quote:
Don't have a lot of time now so I hope this quick answer will sufice.
It's socialistic. I'd like to have a choice of who I want to see and the type or level of care I get.
Also doctors deserve more than to be put under too much restrictions.
nlm
Ah, I see. And socialism is bad thing. I only partially agree with that.
I am fortunate to be in the the VA system, where I get no choice of doctors but get free care. Over the years, they've kept my battered carcass going pretty well. And there is nothing stopping me from seeing an outside doc except a chronic lack of funds. Isn't that how the Canadian system works?
But, back to the topic. I think that the film is going to be a huge success and Disney, unless they change their minds, is going to miss out. The stockholderrs might not exactly be delighted about that.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Woody D
Skeptic Friend
Thailand
285 Posts |
Posted - 05/07/2004 : 20:36:59 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by filthy
Ah, I see. And socialism is bad thing. I only partially agree with that.
Having grown up in a country that boasts about it's freedom I guess I was indoctrinated that we have a choice and can do what we want. So yes, paying for someone else who should be able to take care of himself is a bad thing. BTW, Filthy, that doesn't include those who served the country as you did, that's a speical situation and a reward for your courage. I'm talking about average citizens who think the government is there and always will be for them when they don't even try to make their own way. The government isn't...wasn't supposed to be a baby sitter for the whole population.
quote:
And there is nothing stopping me from seeing an outside doc except a chronic lack of funds. Isn't that how the Canadian system works?
Can't quote exactly all the details but people I've talked to up there, are not completely happy with the present system.
quote:
But, back to the topic. I think that the film is going to be a huge success and Disney, unless they change their minds, is going to miss out. The stockholderrs might not exactly be delighted about that.
According to the company, they think they are doing the right thing. So doesn't that mean they are being ethical in putting their money...of lack there of where their mouth is.
Guess they (companies) can win! If they try to be ethical, when some (see above posts) think all big business are crooks, they get boycotted (see above posts) for standing up for what they believe.
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www.Carabao.net
As long as there's, you know, sex and drugs, I can do without the rock and roll.
Mick Shrimpton
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