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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
 Posted - 05/19/2004 : 11:45:40
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Please, add your own examples of church signs that you've seen, with or without commentary. I'll go first.
Outside a church just a couple miles from my home:quote:
SHOW YOUR MOM
THAT YOU LOVE HER
TAKE YOUR MOTHER
TO CHURCH
Is it just me, or does this imply that taking your mother to church is the only way to show her that you care?
Outside a church in a nearby town:quote:
PUT SOME DOT FAITH
IN YOUR .COM LIFE
Aside from being hard to parse, are they really suggesting online congregations?
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- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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chaloobi
SFN Regular
1620 Posts |
Posted - 05/19/2004 : 12:01:21 [Permalink]
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| You give these folks too much credit. In the first case, no I don't think so. My mother's always trying to get me to go to church with her. And in the second, no I don't think so. My guess is they're just trying to be trendy or something. An on-line church would not work as it messes up the whole revenue portion of the business model. (How do you pass a basket when there's no pew to heard everyone into?) |
-Chaloobi
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 05/26/2004 : 01:26:11 [Permalink]
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quote:
Aside from being hard to parse, are they really suggesting online congregations?
Think I read an AP article about online churches recently....
quote:
(How do you pass a basket when there's no pew to heard everyone into?)
www.paypal.com |
Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Robb
SFN Regular
USA
1223 Posts |
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byhisgrace88
Formerly "creation88"
USA
166 Posts |
Posted - 05/27/2004 : 22:22:04 [Permalink]
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You give these folks too much credit quote:
I'm not gonna focus on any line but this one right now.
Why??? What's the point??? Has a Christian ever done anything to you??? NO....Anything worth believing in is worth sharing, so we share whenever possible. You guys talk about us "herding" you into churches. When was the last time anyone ever tried to force you into a church? If you can't think of a time that this happened, it's because it never did. We are maybe the only people who are not just going to accept that the meaning of life is to "accept everyone". If that's the meaning of life, than count me out. I might as well just stop now, if life's going to be that shallow. If were not in a position where we can try to tell other people about what has CHANGED OUR LIVES, but just have to keep quiet; and watch them go on living there miserable lives, that there most likely not even enjoying, just so we can say we "accepted" them. What's the point of acceptance? If were going to live by that standard, then let's free Saddam because we want to accept his views? It's no different. If Al Quada wants to try and take us out, who are we to try and stop them? It's there view that doing this will make them be rewarded by Allah. Why ar'ent we respecting there views?
Because that would be ridiculous to let mass-murderers run free because we want to respect there views. We feel as if we need to stand up for our views. If we had respected peoples views, Hitler would have taken over Europe, and Saddam would still be in power in Iraq.
So we share because we believe one who is not in Christ is far more doomed then if either of those cases had come to pass.
Why do you mock us for it? Un-like them, we have never hurt any of you. Yet muslims and buddhists get more respect then we do, because they "accept everyone". If every view is as good as the next, then it's no wonder people are flocking to the easiest religion possible. It does'nt matter which one you choose, as long as you acceept everyone and there view.
So it ticks me off more than you can imagine to have you Chablooie, bash me, my family, my extended family, my church family, and my christian family, all in one stinking phrase.
You take what was already derogitory conversation, that was there ONLY to offend. (if you don't realize that, your decieving yourself) Then you tell us in essence "ya know dave; I would agree with those comments about them being arrogent fools, who will do anything to get us into to there stinkin churches. But I don't think there smart enough to have thought of that.
You just told us that we would'nt be smart enough to do anything like that even if we wanted to, and that were only out for money. And I am more upset and offended about that than you will ever know.
So do me a favor. Think about why you give us this dis-respect, and tell me what we have ever done to deserve it. |
Indeed, if we consider the unblushing promises of reward and the staggering nature of the rewards promised in the Gospels, it would seem that Our Lord finds our desire, not too strong, but too weak. We are half-hearted creatures, fooling about with drink and sex and ambition when infinite joy is offered us, like an ignorant child who wants to go on making mud pies in a slum because he cannot imagine what is meant by the offer of a holiday at the sea. We are far too easily pleased.-- C.S. Lewis |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 05/27/2004 : 23:37:52 [Permalink]
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Well.... I wasn't going to respond to an emotional post like this, as emotional people are difficult to communicate with.... but here goes anyway.
quote:
So do me a favor. Think about why you give us this dis-respect, and tell me what we have ever done to deserve it.
I could go on about the historical brutality of the church, or the methods used by the church in days past to convert people, or... well I could go on for a long-time like this. I doubt it would even register to you c88. So, let me try this take... I doubt it will be any better, but hey.
True believers in fundamentalist dogma think that anyone outside their sect is going to burn-in-hell-for-all-eternity(tm). Now, the reasons are as varied as the sects who believe this. Even people that I would classify as ration (for the most part) THINK that anyone who doesn't believe their dogma is going to hell. Some do it with full knowledge of what they are doing, and others do it subconciously.... but you all treat people who you have decided are going to burn-in-hell-for-all-eternity(tm) differently. You have less consideration for these people, and you blindly refuse to accept any point of view not in accordance with your own as valid.
quote:
Has a Christian ever done anything to you??? NO....Anything worth believing in is worth sharing, so we share whenever possible. You guys talk about us "herding" you into churches. When was the last time anyone ever tried to force you into a church? If you can't think of a time that this happened, it's because it never did. We are maybe the only people who are not just going to accept that the meaning of life is to "accept everyone". If that's the meaning of life, than count me out. I might as well just stop now, if life's going to be that shallow.
And here we come to the heart of the conflict.... the typical fundie view that it's OK to discriminate against people based on their race, religion (or lack therof), sexual orientation, or lifestyle.
quote:
If were going to live by that standard, then let's free Saddam because we want to accept his views? It's no different. If Al Quada wants to try and take us out, who are we to try and stop them? It's there view that doing this will make them be rewarded by Allah. Why ar'ent we respecting there views?
Uhh...... Why am I bothering to respond to this?
Oh well, sorry for contributing to the hijacking of this thread! |
Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Robb
SFN Regular
USA
1223 Posts |
Posted - 05/28/2004 : 05:56:08 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dude
And here we come to the heart of the conflict.... the typical fundie view that it's OK to discriminate against people based on their race, religion (or lack therof), sexual orientation, or lifestyle.
The typical Christian view is not to discriminate against anyone, but not to condone every behavior either. For example most christians never discriminate against homosexuals and would gladly welcome then into their church. But they would never tell that person that his lifestyle is correct or Ok with God. To do so would be hypocritical which is something Christians get blamed for all the time. Same goes for any other sin we Christians commit. If it was not for Jesus, I would be condemned also.
I know this is off topic but it seems that there are people that go out of their way to find fault with Christians. It's only a sign.
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Renae
SFN Regular
543 Posts |
Posted - 05/28/2004 : 05:58:00 [Permalink]
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My personal favorite:
"I'm not a racist, butt..."
And it was spelled exactly like that.
There's a Freedom Church of Christ in an old Safeway grocery story by my house. It struck me as funny that they would choose a grocery store (because I'm weird, I guess.) Every time we drive by, I think of possibly funny names for the church ("Our Lady of Perpetual Fresh Produce" or "Our Savior's Bake Shoppe")
Yep, I'm hell bound fer shur. |
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard
USA
4907 Posts |
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rickm
Skeptic Friend
Canada
109 Posts |
Posted - 05/28/2004 : 18:22:26 [Permalink]
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Right beside my favorite coffee shop is a field with a rental sign that gets updated about twice a week. This sign is owned by a local church and some of the stuff that gets put up is quite funny but some stuff is very irritating to me. One week it said, "God heals and the doctor takes the credit". If you believe this, just don't go to doctors, see how well you fare in God's hands.
I always said to myself, self if we ever run into a large amount of money let's rent a sign of our own and place it right beside that one. No let's rent two signs and place them on either side of theirs, that way we would not have to bother writing anything on ours. |
How can I believe in God when just last week I got my tongue caught in the roller of an electric typewriter?
-- Woody Allen, Without Feathers, 1975 |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 05/28/2004 : 19:21:06 [Permalink]
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quote:
The typical Christian view is not to discriminate against anyone, but not to condone every behavior either. For example most christians never discriminate against homosexuals and would gladly welcome then into their church.
www.godhatesfags.com
Pat Robertson on the gay rights day at Disney: God will probably send a hurricaine or meteor to wipe them from the face of the earth.
Robertson and Falwell on 9/11 blame feminism, liberals, and homosexuals for the terrorist attacks.
Falwell's (or Graham's) church didn't used to let BLACK people in.
http://www.godhatesamerica.com/
And then there is the last 2000 years of history to consider....
You have a very difficult time making a case for the kindness and compassion of christians. |
Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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byhisgrace88
Formerly "creation88"
USA
166 Posts |
Posted - 05/28/2004 : 20:41:16 [Permalink]
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I was'nt talking about the history of the church, becuase there have been very dark times. But these do not represent the church today. Nor do the quotes of a few people who said stupid things.
It is very simaler to saying that Timothy McVeigh represents America. Of course he does'nt. But because some people did terrible things a while back, does not mean that you can use that as justification to mock us. None of those things EVER affected our lives. So I re-ask the same question. What has the church ever done to YOU? Not some guy a couple hundred years ago. YOU! |
Indeed, if we consider the unblushing promises of reward and the staggering nature of the rewards promised in the Gospels, it would seem that Our Lord finds our desire, not too strong, but too weak. We are half-hearted creatures, fooling about with drink and sex and ambition when infinite joy is offered us, like an ignorant child who wants to go on making mud pies in a slum because he cannot imagine what is meant by the offer of a holiday at the sea. We are far too easily pleased.-- C.S. Lewis |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 05/28/2004 : 21:50:24 [Permalink]
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Creation88 wrote:quote:
What has the church ever done to YOU?
Which church? I can name examples of things which are wasting my money which can be traced back to the efforts of one church or another, but I predict you'd say that those responsible weren't really Christians, or were representatives of some minority Christian cult, and thus not part of your church. Examples like anti-gay-marriage initiatives, anti-evolution initiatives, pro-"Under God belongs in the Pledge" initiatives, priest sexual-abuse scandals. These all take time away from much more important issues facing the government, and that wasted time translates directly into my tax dollars down the drain.
That is what religion in general does to me - it's not confined to any particular church, really. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 05/29/2004 : 00:24:00 [Permalink]
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quote:
What has the church ever done to YOU?
Well, aside from the websites posted in my previous post....
Lets look at just one christian organization and the political power they have paid for right now. www.cc.org Founded by none other than Pat Robertson, who has expressed his hatred of feminism, liberals, gays, and anyone who doesn't follow his demented beliefs.
quote:
The Christian Coalition of America is America's largest Christian grassroots organization with more than 2 million supporters.
Among several things this particular organization is responsible for is the federal ban on stem cell research funding. Their payback for supporting Bush in 2000 and helping him destroy Johm McCain in the South Carolina primary with the ever effective push-poll.
The CCoA, in all it's wonderfull ignorance, denounced stem cell research because of their false belief that stem cells come only from abortions and a confusion with a certain type of cloning. It's hard to tell what the exact objection by the religious right to stem cell research actually is because of their inability to articulate coherent reasons.... but their effect is undeniable. Bush banned federal dollars for this research as one of his first official acts as president.
Stem cells (cells that can develope into any type of tissue) were/are typically donated to researchers by consent of people using fertility clinics.
Research into stem cells is the most promising area for cures for some of the worst diseases that we are fighting to overcome. Diabetes. Alzheimer's. Liver/Kidney/Heart failure. Not to mention their potential value in research directed towards spinal injury and limb/organ regeneration.
Diabtetes alone is a multi BILLION dollar drain on the US healthcare system every year.
Typically, if the federal gov does not fund research into a specific area, private companies will not either. Why? Political expedience and favors. When a pharmacutical wants something from the government, they don't want to be seen as disagreeing with the current administration's policies.
Diabetes, renal failure, and Alzheimer's disease have been observed in my family (admitedly a large family). There is some risk for me and my siblings and parents to be afflicted with these diseases.
Thanks to CCoA (and other rightwing extremist religious types) the research into curing these conditions has been set back atleast a decade.
And so there you have it, what the church has done to me. They have placed my family and I (and millions of other Americans) in danger. They have decreased the chance of finding cures for some terrible diseases.
And that's just ONE thing. |
Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 05/29/2004 : 07:19:14 [Permalink]
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Creation88, before I discuss what objections I might have to religion, I'd like to make note of my objections to some of the things you wrote in your intial post to this thread:
quote:
What's the point of acceptance? If were going to live by that standard, then let's free Saddam because we want to accept his views? It's no different. If Al Quada wants to try and take us out, who are we to try and stop them? It's there view that doing this will make them be rewarded by Allah. Why ar'ent we respecting there views?
Because that would be ridiculous to let mass-murderers run free because we want to respect there views. We feel as if we need to stand up for our views. If we had respected peoples views, Hitler would have taken over Europe, and Saddam would still be in power in Iraq.
This is a bit of a straw man, no? You seem to be upset that non-Christians are too "accepting" of other non-Christians (an assertion I'm not convinced of, BTW), and then make the absurd implication that non-Christians supported Hitler and Hussein.
Please. Just because I (or any of us) don't follow your god doesn't mean that I'm in favor of the views of mass murderers!
quote:
Yet muslims and buddhists get more respect then we do, because they "accept everyone". If every view is as good as the next, then it's no wonder people are flocking to the easiest religion possible.
Are you trying to say that non-Christians in this country are more respected than Christians?!? Do you honestly think that Islam is an "easy" religion? Is it any more or less "accept[ing]" of "everyone" than Christianity?
It is a strange phenomenon that Christians in this country-- particularly conservative fundamentalist ones-- seem to think that somehow they are a minority struggling against wealthy and powerful anti-Christian forces. Yet it's clear that fundamentalist Christians presently have more wealth and power than any other groups in this country. From our President-- a self-proclaimed born-again Christian-- on down, hard core Christians run this country. And running it into the groups, if you ask me!
quote:
Think about why you give us this dis-respect, and tell me what we have ever done to deserve it.
Well, some people have already articulated some of the things that Christianity has (perhaps indirectly) done to me. I would like to reiterate that the pervasiveness of fundamentalist Christianity in the present administration has led it to engage in policies that, quite frankly, have been disasterous.
But on a more personal note, I used to be completely in love with a woman only to find out during a particularly intimate moment that her god wouldn't let her have sex. After that, the pervasiveness that her god had in all sorts of aspects of her life began to really come between us such that things had to end. So among other things, Christinity caused me much emotional anguish. And for that, I sometimes mock it.  |
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Robb
SFN Regular
USA
1223 Posts |
Posted - 05/29/2004 : 07:51:01 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dude
www.godhatesfags.com
This is a known racist group that call themselves christians but do not show thw Love that Jesus taught.
quote:
Pat Robertson on the gay rights day at Disney: God will probably send a hurricaine or meteor to wipe them from the face of the earth.
Because we oppose gay marriage does not mean we hate gay people. It is just a different view than you have.
quote:
Robertson and Falwell on 9/11 blame feminism, liberals, and homosexuals for the terrorist attacks.
Have not heard of this.
quote:
Falwell's (or Graham's) church didn't used to let BLACK people in.
These were racist christians.
quote:
And then there is the last 2000 years of history to consider....
They were not following Jesus teachings.
quote:
You have a very difficult time making a case for the kindness and compassion of christians.
http://dir.yahoo.com/Society_and_Culture/Religion_and_Spirituality/Faiths_and_Practices/Christianity/Organizations/Charities/
These are only a drop in the bucket.
Association Evangelique Des Demunis - helping needy people in Haiti, the Dominican Republic, Ethiopia, and other areas.
Bread for the World - citizens' movement seeking justice for the world's hungry people by lobbying our nation's decision makers.
Bright Hope International - working through local churches in 42 countries to provide food, jobs and aid to the needy.
Cedar Fund - a charity supported and staffed by HK Christians which works in 13 countries in Africa, Asia and eastern Europe.
Christian Appalachian Project - volunteer inter-denominational service helping people in the Appalachians.
Christian Embassy of Christ's Ambassadors, The - supports and encourages both national and international aide projects.
Christian Reformed World Relief Committee (CRWRC) - relief, development, and educational ministry supported by the Christian Reformed Church in North America.
Christian Relief Services - charitable organization providing humanitarian relief in the United States and around the world.
Church Action on Poverty - national charity seeking to eradicate poverty in the U.K. Publishes educational materials, undertakes research, and runs events across the country.
Church Urban Fund - a charity making grants to Church linked projects in England's urban priority areas.
Church World Service (2)
Educational Concerns for Hunger Organization - offers information about tropical agriculture, seeds, and training to missionaries, and development workers worldwide.
Faith in Practice - a community of volunteers who work to improve the physical, spiritual and economic conditions of the poor in Central America.
Fellowship of Associates of Medical Evangelism [FAME] - dedicated to bringing medical help and hope to least reached people in underdeveloped nations.
Food for the Hungry International (FHI) - global Christian organization providing resources and humanitarian assistance to improve the lives of children and their families.
Global Hope - extending a vision of faith through hands-on Christian love in Romania.
Global Outreach - nonprofit foundation dedicated to helping people of developing countries to help themselves.
Good News Family Care - seeking a return to traditional family values and offerering support, counselling, and temporary accommodation to families in distress.
Heal the Nations - Christian nonprofit organization dedicated to facilitating community health development for needy people in remote areas of the world.
Helps International - nonprofit, non-denominational Christian organization providing assistance with medical care, education, housing, agriculture and economic development in rural Guatemala.
His Kids, Too - Christian nonprofit international humanitarian aide organization providing aide to orphans and widows in several countries, including Ukraine, Russia, and Albania.
Honduras Outreach - ecumenical Christian ministry partnership to improve quality life in Agalta Valley, Honduras.
Hope Connections - making donations to the homeless and poor in the Oakland, Hayward, and Union City areas.
Hope Now - helps people worldwide through prayer and donations.
India Partners - nonprofit organization that works with charities in India.
International Orthodox Christian Charities - coordinating international relief.
Jericho Road, Inc. - contacting nonprofit, social service organizations regarding volunteer opportunities.
Kingdom Ventures - philanthropic venture capital organization supporting emerging Christian ministries.
Kingscare - meeting practical needs with the love of God in developing countries through self help, medical, educational and training projects.
Maranatha Volunteers International - constructs churches, schools, orphanages, clinics, housing and other structures in areas of great need around the world.
Marine Reach International - interdenominational Christian organization providing medical care and facilities via ship, truck, and other means.
MEDAIR - Christian relief and aid organisation.
Mercy Ships - humanitarian organization committed to a three-fold purpose of mercy and relief, training, and ministry.
Mission Noah - dedicated to humanitarian aid throughout the world.
National Benevolent Association - provide social and health services
to meet physical, emotional, mental and spiritual needs.
New Life Counselors, Inc. - grows and sells trees and shrubs to raise funds for Christian missions and for the training of Christian missionaries.
Operation Blessing International (2)
Operation Warmup - clothing ministry serving needy families in Appalachia. High school students serve as Christian ambassadors taking warmth and Christ's love to the needy.
Pura Vida Coffee - sells hand-roasted, gourmet coffees in a variety of blends and flavors. All net proceeds benefit at-risk children in coffee-growing regions of the world. Also provides information about the ministry.
Rivers of the World - exploration and development group targeting the world's most remote rivers. Projects focus on health, education, agriculture, microeconomic development, and evangelism.
Romanian Aid Foundation, The - provides help to the needy and offers hope through the Christian message in the Botosani region of the northeast.
Salvation Army (29)
Siloam Christian Ministeries - assists national co-workers, churches, and independent workers in the "Two Thirds World".
Society of St. Vincent de Paul@
Stamps for Christian Missions (SFCM) - collects used postage stamps to r |
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