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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
 Posted - 05/21/2004 : 08:34:20
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In another thread ('Things get Fugly!!!!!!!!!' in the Creation/Evolution forum), verlch several times made the assertion that sun worship originated in Babylon, and implied that somehow the religion of pagan sun worship continues to this day in the guise of mainstream Christianity.
Here, I'd like to demonstrate that the claims by verlch, as well as those of the crazy websites he linked, are completely bogus. For perhaps 99% of those here thise is a complete non-issue, as only crazed anti-World Church/One World Government/New World Order fundamentalist pseudo-Christians would ever fall for such a thing, as it goes along with their paranoid delusion that the whole world is out to get them, as per (misinterpreted) apocalyptic prophesy.
Nevertheless, I feel compelled to do this, if only because it serves as a nice destraction from any real work I have to do. Plus, will verlch continue to ignore evidence and go along believing in crazy ideas? We'll see...
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I'll begin with your most basic assumption: that sun worship began in Babylon. This is an unsupportable claim. In the earliest literate periods of Mesopotamia, the main deities were An, Enlil, and Enki. None of these have anything to do with the sun. In fact, the sun god, (Sumerian 'Utu', Akkadian 'Shamash'), while an important god, did not figure as prominantly as others, including Inanna/Ishtar, and the moon god.
Indeed, Mesopotamia held a much higher reverence for the moon. Their calendar(s) was (were) lunar, and no solar. In mythology, the moon god was the sun god's father, not vice versa.
In the city god of Babylon was not the sun god, but a weather/storm god named Marduk. Marduk was sometimes called bel, the Akkadian word for 'lord', which may explain why you associate the worship of Ba'al with Babylon. However, Ba'al (from the general Semitic root b-'-l meaning 'lord') was a West Semitic storm deity who had his own myths, etc. Did the two become conflated (similar to the Yahweh-El conflation) in later periods? Perhaps. I'll look at my references when I get a chance. The best one, incidently, is Dictionary of Deities and Demons in the Bible, by K. van der Toorn, et al.
Marduk only rises to prominance in the second millennium. Not coincidentally, this is the same time that Babylon rises from a minor power to the dominant city in southern Mesopotamia. Unfortunately, we cannot say too much about Babylon in the earliest periods because the water table in southern Iraq (thanks to new dams, etc.) is too high and archaeological excavation is difficult at those levels. Still, at other important cities for which we can excavate, such as Ur, Nippur, Umma, Lagash, and others, the sun god is not a prominant deity, nor do these sources suggest that he was in Babylon.
To sum up to this point, the worship of the sun was not a major part of Mesopotamian religion, and in Babylon itself the sun god held no significant position.
You (and those authors of the various websites you linked) seem obsessed with obelisks. However, at one point you write "It's also interesting to note that many sources on the Web claim that obelisks originated in Egypt, not Babylon." There's a reason for this. Obelisks did originate in Egypt, and are completely foreign to Mesopotamia. Have you looked at the writing on all the obelisks that you link to? They're all Egyptian. Never do you see cuneiform wirting to suggest a Mesopotamian link. So when you write that an obelisk in Rome "basically amounts to Baal worship out of Babylon," you aren't making any sense? How does an obelisk (an Egyptian creation) suggest Babylonian sun worship?
Finally, the link http://www.remnantofgod.org/steeple.htm is filled with so many crazed errors and ideas that it will take months to expose them all. Still, I hope here I've put to rest the notion that somehow Ba'al is related to Babylonian sun worship.
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 05/21/2004 : 09:53:16 [Permalink]
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Very good, Cuneiformist!
I for one, would like to learn more.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 05/21/2004 : 10:14:32 [Permalink]
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Well done, Cuneformist.
From the myriad conversations I've had, few (and even then the least supported) suggest sun worship originated in Babylon. I have found references suggesting that sun worship is as old as religion itself. It can be traced back in American Indian cultures for centuries.
The suggestion that Christianity is actually a form of sun worship is an oversimplification of a fairly interesting concept that the Jewish faith was actually the rag-tag followers of Aten (the sun God) who fled Egypt after the death of Ankhenaten (aka Amenhotep IV 3351 - 3340 BCE). I have not been able to find congruent arguements of the timeline of the founding of the Jewish faith. Some pre-date the reign of Ankhenaten, some don't. It has been suggested that Ankhenaten founded the first monotheistic religion and his true followers fled Egypt for the Middle East where the worship changed over time to Judaism and thence to Christianity.
Again, interesting concept. And the trail of the refugees from Egypt become lost after Ankhenaten's reign making definiative proof impossible without further evidence. |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 05/21/2004 : 13:23:38 [Permalink]
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Cuneiformist wrote (to verlch):quote:
However, at one point you write "It's also interesting to note that many sources on the Web claim that obelisks originated in Egypt, not Babylon."
Actually, I wrote that line. verlch just doesn't use the quote function available here. It is sometimes tough to decipher his posts because of that. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 05/21/2004 : 13:40:55 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.
Cuneiformist wrote (to verlch):quote:
However, at one point you write "It's also interesting to note that many sources on the Web claim that obelisks originated in Egypt, not Babylon."
Actually, I wrote that line. verlch just doesn't use the quote function available here. It is sometimes tough to decipher his posts because of that.
Good. I was wondering why he would point out a fact that goes against his initial thesis that sun worship (and, ostensibly, obelisks?) originated in Babylon. That you wrote it makes more sense, and that he has ignored this is typical of him... |
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 05/21/2004 : 15:02:49 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Valiant Dancer
Well done, Cuneformist.
From the myriad conversations I've had, few (and even then the least supported) suggest sun worship originated in Babylon. I have found references suggesting that sun worship is as old as religion itself. It can be traced back in American Indian cultures for centuries.
Right. I don't know when humans gained the cognative abilities needed to conceptualize something as abstract as religion, but most certainly the sun seems to be a likely candidate for worship, along with other aspects of nature, such as the moon, and rain/storms.
quote:
The suggestion that Christianity is actually a form of sun worship is an oversimplification of a fairly interesting concept that the Jewish faith was actually the rag-tag followers of Aten (the sun God) who fled Egypt after the death of Ankhenaten (aka Amenhotep IV 3351 - 3340 BCE). I have not been able to find congruent arguements of the timeline of the founding of the Jewish faith. Some pre-date the reign of Ankhenaten, some don't. It has been suggested that Ankhenaten founded the first monotheistic religion and his true followers fled Egypt for the Middle East where the worship changed over time to Judaism and thence to Christianity.
Again, interesting concept. And the trail of the refugees from Egypt become lost after Ankhenaten's reign making definiative proof impossible without further evidence.
There has been much speculation about the relationship between Amenhotep IV/Ankhenatan, Hebrew slaves, sun worship, and monotheism. Ultimately, however, I think that any serious investigation finds that the trail turns cold quite quickly. Part of this is because, as you noted, it's unclear when we can start talking about an Israelite/Judahite state (or states). It seems most likely that we can talk about an real Israel culture/identity at least by ca. 1200 BCE, as the Merneptah Stele famously mentions Israel, writing the name with the determinative for foreign people. Thus, while not a city or city-state, there was some sort of Israelite culture that existed in Canaan.
When and where did this culture come? Could the Canaanites who came into Egypt during the so-called Hyksos period ca. 1675-1550 BCE have become the Hebrew slaves mentioned in the Bible under the reign of Ramses II (1279-1213)? Could they have been the ones to escape, perhaps taking with them the ideas of monotheism to Canaan? Much of this was put forward by J.C. de Moor in his The Rise of Yahwism (Leuven, 1997). However, as noted in a review by A.F. Rainey in the Journal of Near Eastern Studies 60:2, many of de Moor's ideas are tenuous at best, especially the various ideas of Yahwism coming from Egypt.
I'm rambling here so perhaps I should end this now. But you're right, Valiant Dencer, that without much more evidence, tracing any of this with certaintly will require more evidence. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 05/21/2004 : 20:37:26 [Permalink]
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I have no way to verify it, but probably sun worship, in it's various forms, is the oldest religion there is. I don't think it is unreasonable to speculate that H. s. neandertalisis, a creature of the Big Ice, prayed for the all together too cool and too brief return of it. As did his Cro Magnon neighbors.
Particularly interesting are the faiths of the Aztecs, Inca, and Maya. These all centered around the sun, probably because these were heavily agricultural communities. Less sun, less crops, so one must keep the sun feeling favorable. This worship resulted in some pretty bloody practices, possibly the very worst examples of sun worship. Alas, conversion to Christian dogma around the time of the Inquisition.... no, I won't go there.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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ConsequentAtheist
SFN Regular
641 Posts |
Posted - 05/22/2004 : 11:48:32 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Valiant Dancer
The suggestion that Christianity is actually a form of sun worship is an oversimplification of a fairly interesting concept that the Jewish faith was actually the rag-tag followers of Aten (the sun God) who fled Egypt after the death of Ankhenaten (aka Amenhotep IV 3351 - 3340 BCE). I have not been able to find congruent arguements of the timeline of the founding of the Jewish faith.
That may be partly because the concept is more silly than interesting, and partly because you relocate Amenhotep IV two thousand years back in time.  |
For the philosophical naturalist, the rejection of supernaturalism is a case of "death by a thousand cuts." -- Barbara Forrest, Ph.D. |
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ConsequentAtheist
SFN Regular
641 Posts |
Posted - 05/22/2004 : 12:27:29 [Permalink]
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| To search for the source of Judeo-Christian monotheism in Egypt's 18th or 20th Dynasty Egypt ignores evidence of early henotheism, including Biblical remnants of the Divine Council and the Shasu link to Edom and Yhw. |
For the philosophical naturalist, the rejection of supernaturalism is a case of "death by a thousand cuts." -- Barbara Forrest, Ph.D. |
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verlch
SFN Regular
781 Posts |
Posted - 05/23/2004 : 22:13:11 [Permalink]
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quote:
For perhaps 99% of those here thise is a complete non-issue, as only crazed anti-World Church/One World Government/New World Order fundamentalist pseudo-Christians would ever fall for such a thing, as it goes along with their paranoid delusion that the whole world is out to get them, as per (misinterpreted) apocalyptic prophesy.
Don't forget 'Jesus Freak'!!!! |
What came first the chicken or the egg?
How do plants exist without bugs in the soil, and bugs in the soil without plants producing oxygen?
There are no atheists in foxholes
Underlying the evolutionary theory is not just the classic "stuff" of science — conclusions arrived at through prolonged observation and experimentation. Evolution is first an atheistic, materialistic world view. In other words, the primary reason for its acceptance has little to do with the evidence for or against it. Evolution is accepted because men are atheists by faith and thus interpret the evidence to cor-respond to their naturalistic philosophy.
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. II Timothy 4:3,4
II Thess. 2:11 And for this cause God shall
send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
You can not see the 'wind', but you can see its effect!!!!
Evolution was caused by genetic mistakes at each stage?
Radical Evolution has 500 million years to find fossils of fictional drawings of (hard core)missing links, yet they find none.
We have not seen such moral darkness since the dark ages, coencides with
teaching evolution in schools. (Moral darkness)
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places, EPH 6:12.
"Thus, many scientists embracing naturalism find themselves in the seeming dilemma recently articulated by biochemist Franklin Harold: "We should reject, as a matter of principle, the substitution of intelligent design for the dialogue of chance and necessity [i.e., Darwinian evolution]; but we must concede that there are presently no detailed Darwinian accounts of the evolution of any biochemical system, only a variety of wishful speculations."
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| Edited by - verlch on 05/24/2004 10:42:27 |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 05/24/2004 : 07:28:06 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by ConsequentAtheist
quote:
Originally posted by Valiant Dancer
The suggestion that Christianity is actually a form of sun worship is an oversimplification of a fairly interesting concept that the Jewish faith was actually the rag-tag followers of Aten (the sun God) who fled Egypt after the death of Ankhenaten (aka Amenhotep IV 3351 - 3340 BCE). I have not been able to find congruent arguements of the timeline of the founding of the Jewish faith.
That may be partly because the concept is more silly than interesting, and partly because you relocate Amenhotep IV two thousand years back in time.
(flip, flip, flip) Dang. Wrong dates. Dates should be 1352 BCE - 1336 BCE. Still, I have the problem of judaism being claim to be founded before or after this time. It is unclear. Some claim that the founding of Judaism was around 1800 BCE, but some place it at around 1300 BCE. |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 05/24/2004 : 11:41:50 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by verlch
quote:
For perhaps 99% of those here thise is a complete non-issue, as only crazed anti-World Church/One World Government/New World Order fundamentalist pseudo-Christians would ever fall for such a thing, as it goes along with their paranoid delusion that the whole world is out to get them, as per (misinterpreted) apocalyptic prophesy.
Don't forget 'Jesus Freak'!!!!
Jesus Freak is a bit too broad, don't you think? I mean, the websites you posted are all about how the church is secretly pagan, that sun worship is everywhere, that Muslims really worship a moon god, and so on. That's a pretty narrow group.
And besides, do so-called 'Jesus Freaks' dodge debate as much as you do? |
| Edited by - Cuneiformist on 05/24/2004 17:55:00 |
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 05/24/2004 : 19:27:39 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by ConsequentAtheist
To search for the source of Judeo-Christian monotheism in Egypt's 18th or 20th Dynasty Egypt ignores evidence of early henotheism, including Biblical remnants of the Divine Council and the Shasu link to Edom and Yhw.
Hi, ConsequentAtheist. I thought I had replied to this earlier, but I didn't see it in the queue. Perhaps I was more drunk than I thought.
Anyhow, I'm interested in what you note above. Knowing less about
Egypt than perhaps I should, I wonder if you couldn't expound on it more. And while I am familiar (somewhat) with the notion of the 'divine council' in the ancient Near East, I am less knowledgable about Edom and its connection with (I presume) the god Yahweh. |
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verlch
SFN Regular
781 Posts |
Posted - 05/24/2004 : 22:43:46 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Cuneiformist
quote:
Originally posted by verlch
quote:
For perhaps 99% of those here thise is a complete non-issue, as only crazed anti-World Church/One World Government/New World Order fundamentalist pseudo-Christians would ever fall for such a thing, as it goes along with their paranoid delusion that the whole world is out to get them, as per (misinterpreted) apocalyptic prophesy.
Don't forget 'Jesus Freak'!!!!
Jesus Freak is a bit too broad, don't you think? I mean, the websites you posted are all about how the church is secretly pagan, that sun worship is everywhere, that Muslims really worship a moon god, and so on. That's a pretty narrow group.
And besides, do so-called 'Jesus Freaks' dodge debate as much as you do?
Sure I've got an IQ of 150...a dysleksic 150...but none the less 150.... |
What came first the chicken or the egg?
How do plants exist without bugs in the soil, and bugs in the soil without plants producing oxygen?
There are no atheists in foxholes
Underlying the evolutionary theory is not just the classic "stuff" of science — conclusions arrived at through prolonged observation and experimentation. Evolution is first an atheistic, materialistic world view. In other words, the primary reason for its acceptance has little to do with the evidence for or against it. Evolution is accepted because men are atheists by faith and thus interpret the evidence to cor-respond to their naturalistic philosophy.
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. II Timothy 4:3,4
II Thess. 2:11 And for this cause God shall
send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
You can not see the 'wind', but you can see its effect!!!!
Evolution was caused by genetic mistakes at each stage?
Radical Evolution has 500 million years to find fossils of fictional drawings of (hard core)missing links, yet they find none.
We have not seen such moral darkness since the dark ages, coencides with
teaching evolution in schools. (Moral darkness)
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places, EPH 6:12.
"Thus, many scientists embracing naturalism find themselves in the seeming dilemma recently articulated by biochemist Franklin Harold: "We should reject, as a matter of principle, the substitution of intelligent design for the dialogue of chance and necessity [i.e., Darwinian evolution]; but we must concede that there are presently no detailed Darwinian accounts of the evolution of any biochemical system, only a variety of wishful speculations."
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verlch
SFN Regular
781 Posts |
Posted - 05/24/2004 : 22:58:10 [Permalink]
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http://www.keyway.ca/htm2000/20000704.htm
Here is a good website fellas...
http://www.keyway.ca/htm2000/20000214.htm
http://www.keyway.ca/htm2002/danstat.htm
Babylon the great is fallen, the whore that made all nations drink the wine of the wrath of her fornication. ---somewhere in the bible!!!
God's Calendar and The Pagan Calendar
Today, the names that are used for the days of the week are all named after the sun, moon, or pagan gods. Sunday ("sun" day), Monday ("moon" day), Tuesday ("Tiwe's" day), Wednesday ("Woden's" day), Thursday ("Thor's" day), Friday ("Frie's" day) and Saturday ("Saturn's" day) are all pagan in origin.
Throughout The Bible, the days of the week were identified by number, from first to seventh. Only the seventh day was given a name, the Sabbath:
quote:
"Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor, and do all your work; but the seventh day is a Sabbath to The Lord your God." (Exodus 20:8-10 RSV) (see The Ten Commandments and The Ten Commandments Now?)
As well, any day prior to a Sabbath, whether the regular weekly seventh-day Sabbath, or any of the annual Sabbaths (Passover, Unleavened Bread, Pentecost, Trumpets, Atonement, Tabernacles) was designated as a "Preparation day."
And my bestest friends...
quote:
Sabbath To "Sun"day
The Fourth Commandment is to observe the seventh-day Sabbath. All of the righteous people of the Bible, from Genesis to Revelation, including Jesus Christ Himself (e.g. Luke 4:16), observed the Sabbath. No where in the Bible, including after Christ's resurrection, will you find people observing the first day of the week, Sunday, as a replacement for the Sabbath.
This reality was freely admitted by Roman Catholic Cardinal Gibbon in his Faith Of Our Fathers: "But you may read the Bible from Genesis to Revelation, and you will not find a single line authorizing the sanctification of Sunday. The Scriptures enforce the religious observance of Saturday, a day which we never sanctify."
So, why do so many Christian-professing churches use Sunday for the Sabbath? And the big question, should they be doing so?
quote:
The native peoples of North and South America widely practiced sun worship, as did their Asian ancestors. The Europeans too were deeply involved in sun worship, and many of their sun-god festivals were carried over when they professed conversion to Christianity. These can still be seen today in the Easter bonfire and sunrise services, and the Christmas burning of the Yule log.
Sun worship was also widely practiced by the people of the Middle East, and even the Israelites were sometimes corrupted by it:
"Then he said to me, "Have you seen this, O son of man? You will see still greater abominations than these." And he brought me into the inner court of the house of The Lord; and behold, at the door of the Temple of The Lord, between the porch and the altar, were about twenty-five men, with their backs to the temple of The Lord, and their faces toward the east, worshiping the sun toward the east." (Ezekiel 8:15-16 RSV)
Another fine example of worshipping the creation instead of the creator!!! |
What came first the chicken or the egg?
How do plants exist without bugs in the soil, and bugs in the soil without plants producing oxygen?
There are no atheists in foxholes
Underlying the evolutionary theory is not just the classic "stuff" of science — conclusions arrived at through prolonged observation and experimentation. Evolution is first an atheistic, materialistic world view. In other words, the primary reason for its acceptance has little to do with the evidence for or against it. Evolution is accepted because men are atheists by faith and thus interpret the evidence to cor-respond to their naturalistic philosophy.
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. II Timothy 4:3,4
II Thess. 2:11 And for this cause God shall
send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
You can not see the 'wind', but you can see its effect!!!!
Evolution was caused by genetic mistakes at each stage?
Radical Evolution has 500 million years to find fossils of fictional drawings of (hard core)missing links, yet they find none.
We have not seen such moral darkness since the dark ages, coencides with
teaching evolution in schools. (Moral darkness)
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places, EPH 6:12.
"Thus, many scientists embracing naturalism find themselves in the seeming dilemma recently articulated by biochemist Franklin Harold: "We should reject, as a matter of principle, the substitution of intelligent design for the dialogue of chance and necessity [i.e., Darwinian evolution]; but we must concede that there are presently no detailed Darwinian accounts of the evolution of any biochemical system, only a variety of wishful speculations."
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verlch
SFN Regular
781 Posts |
Posted - 05/24/2004 : 23:12:52 [Permalink]
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http://www.toolong.com/images.htm
quote:
As surprising as it may seem, the symbol of the cross did not originate at the time of the crucifixion of Christ. It has been a pagan symbol used by sun worshipers since the time of Babel.
quote:
Who was Sol the sun-god? It was a continuation of the Baal worship from ancient days. It was present in Egypt and back to ancient Babylon. December 25 is the birth day of Tammuz, the son of Semiramis, and the rebirth of Nimrod. The ancient legend is that a green tree sprang up on Brumalia, with the stump symbolizing Nimrod (Baal) and the green tree Tammuz. This festival is nothing more than witchcraft institutionalized in the church today as Christmas. It is Baal worship. Many Christians hold up their noses over ancient Israel who worshiped YHVH and also worshiped the baals. They think they would never do such things themselves. However, they are practicing the same Baal worship that people were criticized in the scriptures for, over 2500 years ago.
http://members.aol.com/prophecy04/Articles/Christianity/christmas2.html
quote:
Where did the mistletoe come from? It is from ancient Babylon, Rome, northern European pagan practices, and from the Druids of England and Ireland. The mistletoe is thought to give magical healing powers to pagan practitioners on December 25. What about the yuletide log? It too came from Odin worship and back to ancient Babylon. The yuletide log symbolizes the stump for Nimrod (Baal) and the evergreen tree his rebirth through Tammuz on December 25.
quote:
Isn't it amazing that when the Spanish conquerors invaded Central America, that they discovered that the pagans already observed Saturnalia and Brumalia at the winter solstice, and recognized the madonna and child? That's because Baal worship from ancient times pictured Semiramis and Tammuz as madonna and child on Brumalia, December 25. These pagan people in Central America also kept a 40 day fast in the spring (Lent) leading up to the spring fertility festival at the spring equinox festival to honor Semiramis
quote:
Or maybe you're Lutheran, and gaze fondly at the Advent wreath hung so lovingly at the front of the church. It's craft is apparent with the evergreen boughs and red berries from the ancient pagan practices. Solemnly, you light a new candle every week during the weeks leading up to the Advent of the rising sun with the candles representing the new light of the sun. Then on Christmas, the birth day of the Sun God, you light the central candle and celebrate the risen Sun god Sol (Baal). Who do you think you're kidding? We know that Yeshua was born in the fall of the year.
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What came first the chicken or the egg?
How do plants exist without bugs in the soil, and bugs in the soil without plants producing oxygen?
There are no atheists in foxholes
Underlying the evolutionary theory is not just the classic "stuff" of science — conclusions arrived at through prolonged observation and experimentation. Evolution is first an atheistic, materialistic world view. In other words, the primary reason for its acceptance has little to do with the evidence for or against it. Evolution is accepted because men are atheists by faith and thus interpret the evidence to cor-respond to their naturalistic philosophy.
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. II Timothy 4:3,4
II Thess. 2:11 And for this cause God shall
send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
You can not see the 'wind', but you can see its effect!!!!
Evolution was caused by genetic mistakes at each stage?
Radical Evolution has 500 million years to find fossils of fictional drawings of (hard core)missing links, yet they find none.
We have not seen such moral darkness since the dark ages, coencides with
teaching evolution in schools. (Moral darkness)
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places, EPH 6:12.
"Thus, many scientists embracing naturalism find themselves in the seeming dilemma recently articulated by biochemist Franklin Harold: "We should reject, as a matter of principle, the substitution of intelligent design for the dialogue of chance and necessity [i.e., Darwinian evolution]; but we must concede that there are presently no detailed Darwinian accounts of the evolution of any biochemical system, only a variety of wishful speculations."
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