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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 05/31/2004 : 19:16:39 [Permalink]
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quote:
Mammoths evolved into elephants 485 million years ago.
Verlch, verlch, verlch. :roll eyes:
485 million years ago, there were no mammoths. In fact there not only were there no mammoths, but there were no mammals at all.
That was a long time ago, in the Precambrian (that's off the top of my head. Someone correct me if it's actually the Cambrian). In those days, little if anything walked the land. And you've got to wait for some 450 million years, give or take, before you find even the first of the elephant ancestors.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 06/01/2004 : 08:52:43 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by filthy
That was a long time ago, in the Precambrian (that's off the top of my head. Someone correct me if it's actually the Cambrian).
According to W.B. Harland , "A Geological Time Scale" 1989 it is early Ordovician, 'arenig' to be exact. Though, I had to look it up. Cambrian is 570-510 mya, when the first trilobites appeared.
Ordovician was the age of Orthoceratit, Trilobites, clams, and the first jaw-less fish. Sedimentation from this era is mainly grey or red limestone with predominantly orthoceratit fossiles.
When I'm scanning through different geologic ages I notice that (dalmanitets) Trilobites is still there during Silur. With only minor differences in appearence, I think we have to name the Trilobites as one of the most successful species in the history of Earth, with ~170 million years.
Damnit, Verlch's assertions actually made me learn something. Maybe it's a good thing having him around. |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 06/01/2004 : 11:07:29 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
quote:
Originally posted by filthy
That was a long time ago, in the Precambrian (that's off the top of my head. Someone correct me if it's actually the Cambrian).
According to W.B. Harland , "A Geological Time Scale" 1989 it is early Ordovician, 'arenig' to be exact. Though, I had to look it up. Cambrian is 570-510 mya, when the first trilobites appeared.
Ordovician was the age of Orthoceratit, Trilobites, clams, and the first jaw-less fish. Sedimentation from this era is mainly grey or red limestone with predominantly orthoceratit fossiles.
When I'm scanning through different geologic ages I notice that (dalmanitets) Trilobites is still there during Silur. With only minor differences in appearence, I think we have to name the Trilobites as one of the most successful species in the history of Earth, with ~170 million years.
Damnit, Verlch's assertions actually made me learn something. Maybe it's a good thing having him around.
Ah. I can never keep that straight. Like verlch, I have ADD, which is why I never went far in school (I am entirely self-taught), and must concentrate hard to absorbe anything. I keep lots of references to hand, but didn't bother to go to them over the patheticly ridiculous mammoth claim. Too lazy to dignify nonsense with effort.
Thanks, doc. And verlch et al. is indeed good to have around. These guys get me into my existing references and hunting for others, bigtime!
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 06/01/2004 : 11:34:43 [Permalink]
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| Just as a moderation note: had verlch decided to participate in this thread, I would have made good on my "strict moderation" promise. As things are right now, I'll let the last post of filthy's (and portions of previous posts) stand. Perhaps verlch is just on vacation, in which case I'll tidy things up. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 06/01/2004 : 13:30:55 [Permalink]
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quote:
With only minor differences in appearence, I think we have to name the Trilobites as one of the most successful species in the history of Earth, with ~170 million years.
Trilobite = cockroach of the pre-historic world? hehe  |
Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 06/05/2004 : 10:41:10 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.
Perhaps verlch is just on vacation, in which case I'll tidy things up.
That, or he was a troll... |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 06/05/2004 : 16:15:15 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Cuneiformist
quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.
Perhaps verlch is just on vacation, in which case I'll tidy things up.
That, or he was a troll...
He kept us on our toes, and kept our teeth sharp. If he really was a fundie(TM), he did the rest of his people a disservice, because he forced us to stay alert. |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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verlch
SFN Regular
781 Posts |
Posted - 06/10/2004 : 12:48:09 [Permalink]
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| What is this going to get deleted to by the censure Nazi Patrol? |
What came first the chicken or the egg?
How do plants exist without bugs in the soil, and bugs in the soil without plants producing oxygen?
There are no atheists in foxholes
Underlying the evolutionary theory is not just the classic "stuff" of science — conclusions arrived at through prolonged observation and experimentation. Evolution is first an atheistic, materialistic world view. In other words, the primary reason for its acceptance has little to do with the evidence for or against it. Evolution is accepted because men are atheists by faith and thus interpret the evidence to cor-respond to their naturalistic philosophy.
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. II Timothy 4:3,4
II Thess. 2:11 And for this cause God shall
send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
You can not see the 'wind', but you can see its effect!!!!
Evolution was caused by genetic mistakes at each stage?
Radical Evolution has 500 million years to find fossils of fictional drawings of (hard core)missing links, yet they find none.
We have not seen such moral darkness since the dark ages, coencides with
teaching evolution in schools. (Moral darkness)
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places, EPH 6:12.
"Thus, many scientists embracing naturalism find themselves in the seeming dilemma recently articulated by biochemist Franklin Harold: "We should reject, as a matter of principle, the substitution of intelligent design for the dialogue of chance and necessity [i.e., Darwinian evolution]; but we must concede that there are presently no detailed Darwinian accounts of the evolution of any biochemical system, only a variety of wishful speculations."
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verlch
SFN Regular
781 Posts |
Posted - 06/10/2004 : 12:50:16 [Permalink]
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He kept us on our toes, and kept our teeth sharp. If he really was a fundie(TM), he did the rest of his people a disservice, because he forced us to stay alert.
With all your missing links! |
What came first the chicken or the egg?
How do plants exist without bugs in the soil, and bugs in the soil without plants producing oxygen?
There are no atheists in foxholes
Underlying the evolutionary theory is not just the classic "stuff" of science — conclusions arrived at through prolonged observation and experimentation. Evolution is first an atheistic, materialistic world view. In other words, the primary reason for its acceptance has little to do with the evidence for or against it. Evolution is accepted because men are atheists by faith and thus interpret the evidence to cor-respond to their naturalistic philosophy.
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. II Timothy 4:3,4
II Thess. 2:11 And for this cause God shall
send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
You can not see the 'wind', but you can see its effect!!!!
Evolution was caused by genetic mistakes at each stage?
Radical Evolution has 500 million years to find fossils of fictional drawings of (hard core)missing links, yet they find none.
We have not seen such moral darkness since the dark ages, coencides with
teaching evolution in schools. (Moral darkness)
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places, EPH 6:12.
"Thus, many scientists embracing naturalism find themselves in the seeming dilemma recently articulated by biochemist Franklin Harold: "We should reject, as a matter of principle, the substitution of intelligent design for the dialogue of chance and necessity [i.e., Darwinian evolution]; but we must concede that there are presently no detailed Darwinian accounts of the evolution of any biochemical system, only a variety of wishful speculations."
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 06/10/2004 : 13:27:22 [Permalink]
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Verlch wrote:quote:
What is this going to get deleted to by the censure Nazi Patrol?
What have you written that is now missing? Anything?
If you want to turn this thread into a complaint about how you've been censored, be my guest, but you'll only be asked for evidence of it. In other words, cries of censorship will simply be added to your list of unsupported assertions.
And, of course, comparing me (or anyone else here) to Nazis does nothing to make me feel more sympathetic to you. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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tomk80
SFN Regular
Netherlands
1278 Posts |
Posted - 06/10/2004 : 14:21:28 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by verlch
He kept us on our toes, and kept our teeth sharp. If he really was a fundie(TM), he did the rest of his people a disservice, because he forced us to stay alert.
With all your missing links!
Now Verlch, could you please pick one of your assertions from the list provided, and start backing it up? Next time you come in, just post one message where you say which topic you pick. After that, we can all go and find sources to back up our positions and come back a little while later to have a discussion. |
Tom
`Contrariwise,' continued Tweedledee, `if it was so, it might be; and if it were so, it would be; but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic.'
-Through the Looking Glass by Lewis Caroll- |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 06/10/2004 : 14:50:35 [Permalink]
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I want to know about # 44. I want to see radiometric dating techniques not just debunked, but cast into Gehenna for a well-deserved burial in the smoldrering offal from which they sprang.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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verlch
SFN Regular
781 Posts |
Posted - 06/10/2004 : 23:19:03 [Permalink]
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quote:
I want to know about # 44. I want to see radiometric dating techniques not just debunked, but cast into Gehenna for a well-deserved burial in the smoldrering offal from which they sprang.
Well take a dead animal and start dating it with your methods! You will find it thousands of years in difference within just the bones! Anyone can make the numbers anything they want! And with all the evolving fossills you have for evidence I'm suprised your theory isn't fact! |
What came first the chicken or the egg?
How do plants exist without bugs in the soil, and bugs in the soil without plants producing oxygen?
There are no atheists in foxholes
Underlying the evolutionary theory is not just the classic "stuff" of science — conclusions arrived at through prolonged observation and experimentation. Evolution is first an atheistic, materialistic world view. In other words, the primary reason for its acceptance has little to do with the evidence for or against it. Evolution is accepted because men are atheists by faith and thus interpret the evidence to cor-respond to their naturalistic philosophy.
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. II Timothy 4:3,4
II Thess. 2:11 And for this cause God shall
send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
You can not see the 'wind', but you can see its effect!!!!
Evolution was caused by genetic mistakes at each stage?
Radical Evolution has 500 million years to find fossils of fictional drawings of (hard core)missing links, yet they find none.
We have not seen such moral darkness since the dark ages, coencides with
teaching evolution in schools. (Moral darkness)
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places, EPH 6:12.
"Thus, many scientists embracing naturalism find themselves in the seeming dilemma recently articulated by biochemist Franklin Harold: "We should reject, as a matter of principle, the substitution of intelligent design for the dialogue of chance and necessity [i.e., Darwinian evolution]; but we must concede that there are presently no detailed Darwinian accounts of the evolution of any biochemical system, only a variety of wishful speculations."
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 06/11/2004 : 03:25:04 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by verlch
quote:
I want to know about # 44. I want to see radiometric dating techniques not just debunked, but cast into Gehenna for a well-deserved burial in the smoldrering offal from which they sprang.
Well take a dead animal and start dating it with your methods! You will find it thousands of years in difference within just the bones! Anyone can make the numbers anything they want! And with all the evolving fossills you have for evidence I'm suprised your theory isn't fact!
The ToE is a fact.
quote:
When non-biologists talk about biological evolution they often confuse two different aspects of the definition. On the one hand there is the question of whether or not modern organisms have evolved from older ancestral organisms or whether modern species are continuing to change over time. On the other hand there are questions about the mechanism of the observed changes... how did evolution occur? Biologists consider the existence of biological evolution to be a fact. It can be demonstrated today and the historical evidence for its occurrence in the past is overwhelming. However, biologists readily admit that they are less certain of the exact mechanism of evolution; there are several theories of the mechanism of evolution. Stephen J. Gould has put this as well as anyone else:
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/evolution-fact.html
Do you also doubt the Theory of Gravity? That's an easy one to test, you know.
You have made an interesting assertion. You are saying that I could date fresh roadkill using radiometric methods and come up with ancient and false ages, yes? I assume that this experiment has been performed, even though I've not heard of it. References....?
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 06/11/2004 : 05:24:10 [Permalink]
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Ah, what the hell. It's Friday morning and I'm feeling generous, so I will help you a little.
Jan Peczkis, writing under the nom de guerre of John Woodmorappe has written fairly extensivly on radiometric dating from a creationist point of view. Run a google on 'John Woodmorappe' to get at his works.
When you've mustered your arguments, come back and demonstrate how C-14 dating reads a 'possum pancake as ancient.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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