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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
 Posted - 05/31/2004 : 13:13:07
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Well, I was reading some of the old fan-mail on this site and a statement by one of the letter writers (Dr. Mark Purchase, Ph.D) got my attention.
quote:
It''s a scientific fact, life can only come from pre-existent life not from matter alone.
This brings me to another thing I read recently, the cover article in the June 2004 Discover magazine. Apparently some really smart people will be creating life from scratch within the next couple of years.
http://www.discover.com/issues/jun-04/cover/
You can't get the full text of the article online unless your a subscriber.... but the jist if the article is this: Jack Stozack of Havard medical school and team will be atempting to create a "self replicating organism capable of Darwinian evolution" in the lab. They claim that they can do it in about three years.
Just something to keep your eyes on!
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 05/31/2004 : 13:49:31 [Permalink]
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Indeed. If I'm not mistaken, a virus of sorts has already been created, although I don't know the whole story of it. If successful, the results will be interesting. It will provide sound evidence that abiogenesis is not only possible, but likely.
We shall see.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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verlch
SFN Regular
781 Posts |
Posted - 06/10/2004 : 12:54:23 [Permalink]
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If I'm not mistaken, a virus of sorts has already been created, although I don't know the whole story of it.
Hmmm...Is that not interesting! A created Virus, or sorts, created by another created being! Hmmm imagine the possiblities!~ |
What came first the chicken or the egg?
How do plants exist without bugs in the soil, and bugs in the soil without plants producing oxygen?
There are no atheists in foxholes
Underlying the evolutionary theory is not just the classic "stuff" of science — conclusions arrived at through prolonged observation and experimentation. Evolution is first an atheistic, materialistic world view. In other words, the primary reason for its acceptance has little to do with the evidence for or against it. Evolution is accepted because men are atheists by faith and thus interpret the evidence to cor-respond to their naturalistic philosophy.
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. II Timothy 4:3,4
II Thess. 2:11 And for this cause God shall
send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
You can not see the 'wind', but you can see its effect!!!!
Evolution was caused by genetic mistakes at each stage?
Radical Evolution has 500 million years to find fossils of fictional drawings of (hard core)missing links, yet they find none.
We have not seen such moral darkness since the dark ages, coencides with
teaching evolution in schools. (Moral darkness)
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places, EPH 6:12.
"Thus, many scientists embracing naturalism find themselves in the seeming dilemma recently articulated by biochemist Franklin Harold: "We should reject, as a matter of principle, the substitution of intelligent design for the dialogue of chance and necessity [i.e., Darwinian evolution]; but we must concede that there are presently no detailed Darwinian accounts of the evolution of any biochemical system, only a variety of wishful speculations."
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 06/10/2004 : 14:43:55 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by verlch
If I'm not mistaken, a virus of sorts has already been created, although I don't know the whole story of it.
Hmmm...Is that not interesting! A created Virus, or sorts, created by another created being! Hmmm imagine the possiblities!~
No, created by an evolved being.
Welcome back! Now, about number 44.... 
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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moakley
SFN Regular
USA
1888 Posts |
Posted - 06/10/2004 : 15:14:29 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by verlch
If I'm not mistaken, a virus of sorts has already been created, although I don't know the whole story of it.
Hmmm...Is that not interesting! A created Virus, or sorts, created by another created being! Hmmm imagine the possiblities!~
Interesting because the creator's work in this case can be independently verified and experimentally repeated. It doesn't require faith in the supernatural, that is without limits, only a willingness to think and consider the evidence. |
Life is good
Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. -Anonymous |
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard
USA
4907 Posts |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 06/10/2004 : 20:16:12 [Permalink]
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The virus in question was Polio. It's not like the researchers created something brand spankin' new. They basically "redrew the blueprint" (which was already known), and it worked. Go figure.
It's actually not very surprising that that particular research hit the popular press for one or two days, tops. Once the reporters learned that the researchers re-invented the Polio "wheel," it ceased to be newsworthy. At least, that's the way I remember it happening. It was a pretty big yawn-fest for me from the get-go.
And now perhaps verlch will provide evidence that scientists are "created beings"? |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 06/10/2004 : 20:51:53 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by verlch
If I'm not mistaken, a virus of sorts has already been created, although I don't know the whole story of it.
Hmmm...Is that not interesting! A created Virus, or sorts, created by another created being! Hmmm imagine the possiblities!~
Yes indeed it is interesting. My impression of creationist is that until now they always maintained that only God can create life. Scientist have now proven those creationists wrong.
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Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 06/10/2004 : 21:44:08 [Permalink]
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quote:
My impression of creationist is that until now they always maintained that only God can create life. Scientist have now proven those creationists wrong.
Not yet. They are very close to doing it though. Within the next couple of years I think it will happen. |
Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 06/11/2004 : 07:01:20 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dude
quote:
My impression of creationist is that until now they always maintained that only God can create life. Scientist have now proven those creationists wrong.
Not yet. They are very close to doing it though. Within the next couple of years I think it will happen.
Right. A virus does not count as living, since it does not have metabolism, and it relies on other organisms for procreation.
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Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 06/11/2004 : 12:28:00 [Permalink]
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Also, the virus was (as Dave W pointed out) a recreation of an existing organism.
The work I mentioned will create an organism that is brand new and totally unique. If it works, it will mark a turning point in our progress. It will bring biological science to a new place. It's going to be one of those quiet events that we will look back on in 50 years and say.... "That was an important day." |
Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 06/11/2004 : 22:20:44 [Permalink]
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Dude wrote:quote:
It's going to be one of those quiet events that we will look back on in 50 years and say.... "That was an important day."
Either that, or we'll look back in 50 years and curse the day, as we blast away at the two-foot long, acid-spewing, fast-reproducing, human-eating planaria which were accidentally created.  |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 06/12/2004 : 01:13:29 [Permalink]
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quote:
Either that, or we'll look back in 50 years and curse the day, as we blast away at the two-foot long, acid-spewing, fast-reproducing, human-eating planaria which were accidentally created.
Yeah, but how cool would that be?  |
Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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verso
Skeptic Friend
USA
76 Posts |
Posted - 06/12/2004 : 12:13:57 [Permalink]
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quote:
Yes indeed it is interesting. My impression of creationist is that until now they always maintained that only God can create life. Scientist have now proven those creationists wrong.
I may be wrong.. but I think creationists (like myself) generally contend not that "only God can create life" - rather, that life cannot create itself. Or... more clearly - spontaneously come into existence. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 06/12/2004 : 12:56:59 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by verso
quote:
Yes indeed it is interesting. My impression of creationist is that until now they always maintained that only God can create life. Scientist have now proven those creationists wrong.
I may be wrong.. but I think creationists (like myself) generally contend not that "only God can create life" - rather, that life cannot create itself. Or... more clearly - spontaneously come into existence.
Hi verso and welcome to SFN!
As to the last, it remains to be seen. Abiogenesis research is still pretty much in the hypothetical stage, but it's being worked on. If I have it straight, creationist thought is that evolutionists claim that a cell sprang into being from chemical reactions, and that's utter nonsense, they say. And they would be right if that's what the claims actually are. The first life was not anything nearly as complicated as a cell. Indeed, it could have started with no more than a self-replicating molecule.
Again, wlecome!
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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verso
Skeptic Friend
USA
76 Posts |
Posted - 06/12/2004 : 13:36:55 [Permalink]
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quote:
Hi verso and welcome to SFN!
Thank you!
quote:
If I have it straight, creationist thought is that evolutionists claim that a cell sprang into being from chemical reactions...
Unfortunately, that is true - but only of creationists who haven't the slightest clue of WHY they're creationists except that it's what they grew up with. It is a double-edged sword however - and I often see evolutionists coming to comparably gross misunderstandings of what creationists believe.
I would like to think that I (along with most other objective creationists) have somewhat of a better idea where evolutionists are coming from. That, as Dawkins would say - the first replicators could have been something as simple as crytals (with their set atomic arrangments and occasional flaws), and the substantially more statistically probable process of mutation/selection could have taken over.
By the way... if anyone can suggest something more up-to-date than "The Blind Watchmaker," I'd love to hear about it. 
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