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Roki
New Member
5 Posts |
 Posted - 06/02/2004 : 21:23:47
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ok granted i Think i have lactose intolerance, when i was younger I used to take milk and feel icky after that...not to mention all the sinus problems...
but anyway a few years ago I was just reading up all over and realised that many people were actually against the drinking of milk...
can someone tell me if this guy is credible
http://www.notmilk.com/
frankly he is only one of the websites and source that I have, but of course, the most informative one. That's why I'm asking.
Being somewhat of a Skeptic myself, i tried to see beyond the message and go into the science. And found myself somewhat convinced of the properties of milk and what it does to the body.
Has anyone else done research on this?
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It was determined that I would believe in determinism |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2004 : 07:37:59 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Roki
ok granted i Think i have lactose intolerance, when i was younger I used to take milk and feel icky after that...not to mention all the sinus problems...
but anyway a few years ago I was just reading up all over and realised that many people were actually against the drinking of milk...
can someone tell me if this guy is credible
http://www.notmilk.com/
frankly he is only one of the websites and source that I have, but of course, the most informative one. That's why I'm asking.
Being somewhat of a Skeptic myself, i tried to see beyond the message and go into the science. And found myself somewhat convinced of the properties of milk and what it does to the body.
Has anyone else done research on this?
First blush, The movement has several really serious problems.
1) The source attempts to demonize supporters of milk as a good source of calcium while calling it such things as "white death" and linking milk usage to Crohn's disease and cancer.
2) The source cites celebrities as valid sources.
3) The inclusion of Jeff Rense as a supporting source.
4) They claim that the dairy industry admitted that milk and cheese are not good for you based on an editorial piece on saturated fats and a new feed additive which lowers the amount of saturated fats in milk.
5) They then point to naturally occuring hormones in bovine milk that also exist in human milk and claim all sorts of carcinogenic linkages without regard to level of exposure.
Personally, I think they're a bunch of whack jobs. Bovine milk is still a very good source of calcium which aids growing children and helps prevent osteoporosis. |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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Roki
New Member
5 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2004 : 09:29:20 [Permalink]
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Hmmm, ok.
but the thing is, I want to know if enyone here has actually gone and read all those researches that went on about Cow Milk.
I mean, the evidence seems to be overwhelming, and there are skeptics on both sides you see.
There are people who do not trust the milk industry because they know what cow milk does biologically. It is alkaline when it is consumed, but is acidic when it's end results enter the bloodstream etc. And because of that the body leeches calcium off the bone etc
Sure it's been forever that people drink milk, but in light of recent technology, couldn't these skeptics just be right about milk being no that good?
I mean, I know people who have sinus problems who were told to get off milk, and they got well... Me included...
Is there anyone here who has studied this in detail? I'd really like to know more... |
It was determined that I would believe in determinism |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2004 : 11:54:19 [Permalink]
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Roki wrote:quote:
but the thing is, I want to know if enyone here has actually gone and read all those researches that went on about Cow Milk.
Actually, if you'd be so kind, I'd like to see some of the citations to the medical literature given by Cohen on his web site (or in his books). I just don't have time right now to search for them. If you could post some of them here, I'd be glad to chase them down a little.quote:
I mean, the evidence seems to be overwhelming, and there are skeptics on both sides you see.
If the number of doctors who said "drink milk" or "don't drink milk" were equal, you might have a point here. But you'll always be able to find someone like Cohen who's "skeptical" (read: cynical) of any proposition. The evidence that I've seen, like reading his "The Scoop on Poop" article, is that Cohen is one of the poor misguided masses who've duped themselves into thinking that they've found an easy solution to a variety of extremely complex problems. It's not the case.quote:
There are people who do not trust the milk industry because they know what cow milk does biologically. It is alkaline when it is consumed, but is acidic when it's end results enter the bloodstream etc. And because of that the body leeches calcium off the bone etc
Which is baloney. The acidity of the blood is controlled on a second-by-second basis by breathing. You can easily make your own blood more acidic by holding your breath. And you can feel the effects of alkalinosis by purposefully hyperventilating (don't do this at home, kids!). Blood pH is also very tightly controlled, and I'd be willing to bet that the amount of acidity required to leech calcium from bone - all by itself - would push a person towards a nearly-instant death.quote:
Sure it's been forever that people drink milk, but in light of recent technology, couldn't these skeptics just be right about milk being no that good?
Cohen is not a skeptic, especially if he's the source of your talk about blood acidity. Such an argument shows a large deficit in medical knowledge, which is knowledge one would need to have in order to be properly skeptical of the dairy industry's claims. A correct term for Cohen would be "nay sayer."quote:
I mean, I know people who have sinus problems who were told to get off milk, and they got well... Me included...
Bravo. Nobody ever said that milk (not lactose) intolerance only ever leads to severe abdominal bloating, cramps and gas. There are many proteins in milk, even raw, natural milk. There's no reason to think that people cannot have small allergic reactions to one or more of them.quote:
Is there anyone here who has studied this in detail? I'd really like to know more...
I looked into Cohen's claims a few years ago in relation to the disease psoriasis, but can remember very little of what I said back then. I could probably find my old newsgroup posts, but don't quite have the time right now. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2004 : 13:46:24 [Permalink]
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quote:
quote:
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There are people who do not trust the milk industry because they know what cow milk does biologically. It is alkaline when it is consumed, but is acidic when it's end results enter the bloodstream etc. And because of that the body leeches calcium off the bone etc
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Which is baloney. The acidity of the blood is controlled on a second-by-second basis by breathing. You can easily make your own blood more acidic by holding your breath. And you can feel the effects of alkalinosis by purposefully hyperventilating (don't do this at home, kids!). Blood pH is also very tightly controlled, and I'd be willing to bet that the amount of acidity required to leech calcium from bone - all by itself - would push a person towards a nearly-instant death.
Blood PH is maintained between 7.35 and 7.45. Any variation out of this range indicates a severe medical issue. i.e. emergency. The body has several systems that monitor and control blood PH. The two primary regulators are the respiratory and renal systems. If your blood PH deviates by much more than +/- .1, you're likely going to die without medical attention. Your body makes changes second to second to maintain its PH in the correct range. Anything you do, that causes it to shift outside the range, that cannot be corrected in a couple of minutes is likely to leave you dead.
I'm not sure you could drink enough milk to change your blood PH. |
Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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welshdean
Skeptic Friend
United Kingdom
172 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2004 : 15:08:50 [Permalink]
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quote:
I'm not sure you could drink enough milk to change your blood PH.
Not even 'Cool-Hand' Luke? |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2004 : 18:18:05 [Permalink]
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Dude wrote:quote:
I'm not sure you could drink enough milk to change your blood PH.
Not at all. There's a "popular" game these days - among the reality-TV crowd, at least - in which the winner is the person who can drink an entire gallon of milk within an hour. It usually involves a lot of puking, not because milk is a "poison," but simply because of the sheer bulk of what the participants are trying to ingest. Unlike water and alcohol, milk solids don't get absorbed directly by the stomach. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Woody D
Skeptic Friend
Thailand
285 Posts |
Posted - 06/11/2004 : 22:53:37 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Roki
Has anyone else done research on this?
No, never really thought about it. But a doctor once told me not to have any dairy products. Didn't inquire as to why at the time. Since I'd already stopped drinking milk a long time ago, don't like yogurt and almost never eat ice cream, it didn't matter much anyway.
BTW, this doctor was at a faily well localy known collage, called UCLA. (University of California at Los Angeles) which is supposed to have a good medical school. He was the head of the department.
But who cares what some doctor says or any skeptic on any side of an issue. 1st of all there are other sources of calcium and 2nd, I say go with what make you feel comfortable. If drinking milk makes you feel ill or cause problems then why do you need anyone to tell you to do it? |
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| Edited by - Woody D on 06/11/2004 22:55:27 |
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satans_mom
Skeptic Friend
USA
148 Posts |
Posted - 06/20/2004 : 23:17:29 [Permalink]
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As to any particular plant, animal, or other food product, one will typically have positive effects and negative effects in some form or fashion. Being that an individual processes foods in individual ways, an argument against a substance by stating such things as, "It's bad for you," is too broad and general to be considered correct.
Why I don't drink milk is because the steroids and hormones feeded to the cows. Pus, blood, and secretions occur in human milk as well, and I don't think many would argue that to an infant, mother's milk is best. If an infant can tolerate such high levels of blood, pus, etc, it's safe to assume most adults and children can as well.
Blood and pus are natural! Steroids, phosphates, hormones, and other additives are not. If we were to live in a completely natural habitat, would we drink cow's milk? If so, much would be missing than what is not today.
Even the name "bovine" sounds a bit unsettling to me... |
Yo mama's so fat, she's on both sides of the family.
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