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Robb
SFN Regular
USA
1223 Posts |
 Posted - 06/11/2004 : 08:22:55
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What is your definition of a fundamentalist Christian or "fundie' besides bad writing (Dr. Mabuse). Are all Christians fundamentalists? or can there be a non fundamentalist Christian? Do most people on this site use this term loosley for all Christians?
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Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. - George Washington |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 06/11/2004 : 08:46:41 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Robb
What is your definition of a fundamentalist Christian or "fundie' besides bad writing (Dr. Mabuse). Are all Christians fundamentalists? or can there be a non fundamentalist Christian? Do most people on this site use this term loosley for all Christians?
A "Fundie" is a member of a few denominations of radical fundamentalist Christians. Usually of the Charismatic or Fundamentalist Evangelical movement. This is evidenced by strict adherence to religious dogma which stresses several divisive points and claims to be oppressed. They also advocate instititutionally led school prayer.
A minority of Christians fall into this category, but that minority is very vocal. There is an abundance of non-Fundie Christians. I have not seen the term applied to all Christians by members of this board. Mostly the term applies to those who engage in activities which stress non-critical thinking and prostelyzation.
The divisive points which are most famous of the Fundie tend to be
1) Homosexuals are an abomination before the Lord
2) Their particular brand of Christianity is the only "right" way and all other denominations are damned
3) Women must be subserviant to men
4) The government is actively trying to destroy Christianity
5) The ACLU is a Christian-hating organization
6) California is trying to force Islam/Scientology/any non-Christian faith on children
7) Atheists deny the existance of God
8) Societal ills are the fault of Abington v. Schempp
9) The United States was formed as a wholly Christian nation
10) Homosexuals are "recruiting" new members from school children
11) Homosexuality can be cured through prayer
12) Demonic possession happens with alarming regularity and is due to Satanic Ritual Abuse
13) Evolution (deliberately misspelled Evilution) attacks Chrisitianity
14) Young Earth Creationism is the only right theory about species
15) Science attacks Christianity
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Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 06/11/2004 : 08:48:54 [Permalink]
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From what I've seen, Robb, most people here use the term "fundamentalist Christian" to mean a Christian which treats the Bible literally, not only as a guide to faith, but as a scientifically-accurate description of the history of the universe. Fundamentalists, in other words, look to the fundamentals within the Bible.
Catholics, while Christians, are not generally fundamentalists (with the notable exception of Mel Gibson, apparently). Mormons even less so.
And there are also fundamentalists Muslims, Jews, Buddhists, etc., but oftentimes the media labels them as "radical" rather than "fundamentalist." The term really refers to how literally one follows one's chosen religious text, not just the Bible.
Here's the American Heritage Dictionary definition of fundamentalism:1. A usually religious movement or point of view characterized by a return to fundamental principles, by rigid adherence to those principles, and often by intolerance of other views and opposition to secularism.
2. a. often Fundamentalism An organized, militant Evangelical movement originating in the United States in the late 19th and early 20th century in opposition to Protestant Liberalism and secularism, insisting on the inerrancy of Scripture.
b. Adherence to the theology of this movement. So, capitalized it refers to a specific Christian sect, and uncapitalized it can refer to anyone who says, "the Bible says it's true, so therefore it's true, and 'science' is wrong, period." |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 06/11/2004 : 09:08:17 [Permalink]
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My own definition is someone who takes a philosophy such as a religious text as the literal, word-for-word, truth, even against all emperical evidence. He/she doesn't have to ba a Christian, no. Merely a one-track, closed mind that demands that others think the same way and only the same way.
No, all Christians are not fundies. Most of the ones I know are perfectly reasonable people who's company I enjoy.
As to the bad writing, not all, but a great many fundies write at around the cretin level. And I for one, hate that because the chances are good that they are better educated, formally at least, than myself.
I've wondered why this is so. I get the impression that they are in such a hurry to try and get their point across that they just blither it out and hit 'Post'. Some of the gibberish that has shown up here has been all but indecipherable.
Heh, thousand word paragraphs with poor puncuation and no capitals sometimes show up, and ain't nobody into S&M enough to try and sort out that crap. Those are the times that I transmorgify into an evil grammar nazi and scold them for it.
As few if any of us have met face to face, we only know each other by our writings. If someone writes like an idiot, that someone will surely be thought of as an idiot.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 06/11/2004 : 09:12:15 [Permalink]
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| I don't think it can be over stated that on boards like this we run the risk of getting a skewed view of Christians. We tend to see more fundamentalist types in here. Those that take issue with all science that is at odds with their take on the bible. It is important to remember that this is not a representative sampling of Christian views... |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 06/11/2004 : 09:20:14 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Kil
I don't think it can be over stated that on boards like this we run the risk of getting a skewed view of Christians. We tend to see more fundamentalist types in here. Those that take issue with all science that is at odds with their take on the bible. It is important to remember that this is not a representative sampling of Christian views...
Kil just said it best.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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verso
Skeptic Friend
USA
76 Posts |
Posted - 06/13/2004 : 00:05:02 [Permalink]
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As a fundamental Christian myself, I'm glad to see it has been recognized that the occasional blathering fool making badly-written hit-and-run posts is not necessarily representative of the Christian community as a whole. 
It's extremely unfortunate that the most arrogant Christians tend to be the most vocal.
What I'd like to do is go through the 15 points mentioned in the second post (the ones that I can, anyway) and try to give you an accurate picture of sincere fundamentalist views.
1. Homosexuals are an abomination before the Lord
No human is an abomination "before the Lord." Any sin, however, is. As a fundamentalist, obviously I take the Bible literally and in full. And it says rather explicitly, that homosexuality is a sin. If someone wants to take me up on that point, that is fine. But that's not what I'm concerned with at the moment. What I'm concerned with is how that "fact" is handled by those who take it as fact.
There are certain very visible "Christians" out there that do preach hatred towards the person, but that is far from the Christianity of the Bible. Simply looking at how Jesus lived will demonstrate that. Many "Christian" groups (i.e. the Pharisees) in his time were disgusted with him because his company often included prostitutes, dishonest tax collectors, and all manner of thieves and other more-or-less morally corrupt people.
So Jesus obviously accepted the people. And we, who are to strive to be like Christ, are to do the same.
So that should be the end of it, right? Not quite. Fundamentalist critics often point to the story where Jesus says "let he who is without sin cast the first stone." But they - without fail - leave off the end of that story, where Jesus says "...neither do I condemn you. Go now and leave your life of sin." Jesus does accept people, but he desires they change - to conform to his morals. And we are to have the same view. To accept the people, but desire that they change.
Does that mean we look down our noses at them? Not at all! A sincere Christian will recognize that he or she is just as sinful as anyone else. We are no better. And with that attitude, we are to welcome anyone who comes into our presence. Do we accept the sin? No. Does that effect how we treat the person? No - it does not.
2. Their particular brand of Christianity is the only "right" way and all other denominations are damned
To say Christianity should accept other "pathways" as "correct" is to say that Christianity should contradict itself. Jesus himself said "no one comes to the father but by me," and also in the new testament (I'm too lazy to go get the exact reference - I will if anyone presses) "Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven, given among men, by which we must be saved." So - knowing that some of you may despise me for this - yes, I believe Christianity is the only way.
Christianity is not a "feel good" religion. The truth often isn't. And for me - that is the truth. And discomfort with that belief is not going to make me give it up any more so than the truth about the reality of the holocaust will make me stop believing it happened.
3. Women must be subserviant to men
The Bible teaches that women are to be submissive to their husbands, and that a man is to love his wife, and treat her as if she was his own body. Obviously, if both husband and wife are true to this, the result is a loving, respectful relationship.
4 & 6. The government is actively trying to destroy Christianity/California is trying to force Islam/Scientology/any non-Christian faith on children
There definitely are movements that would like to see Christianity smothered. Can you generalize that to the entire government? I'd say not.
5. The ACLU is a Christian-hating organization
My impression of them is that they are very liberal (which I take as very non-fundamental Chr |
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Maverick
Skeptic Friend
Sweden
385 Posts |
Posted - 06/13/2004 : 03:27:42 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Valiant Dancer
The divisive points which are most famous of the Fundie tend to be
13) Evolution (deliberately misspelled Evilution) attacks Chrisitianity
15) Science attacks Christianity
Not intentionally, of course. It's more like a side effect. If one theory is better than another, what can you do? Also, it doesn't attack christianity since everyone can choose to be christian no matter what answers science may find. |
"Life is but a momentary glimpse of the wonder of this astonishing universe, and it is sad to see so many dreaming it away on spiritual fantasy." -- Carl Sagan |
| Edited by - Maverick on 06/13/2004 03:28:10 |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 06/13/2004 : 03:35:02 [Permalink]
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<sigh> Would that we got more fundies like verso into our happy, little hive. We might actually have some good discussions, rather than the hack-&-stab (I am a prime offender) we've had lately.
Verso, you are a breath of fresh air.
(Atheist and card-carrying member of the ACLU) |
"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Maverick
Skeptic Friend
Sweden
385 Posts |
Posted - 06/13/2004 : 04:18:51 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by verso
1. Homosexuals are an abomination before the Lord
No human is an abomination "before the Lord." Any sin, however, is.
[...]
A sincere Christian will recognize that he or she is just as sinful as anyone else. We are no better.
So everyone is sinful, and noone is an abomination before your God. My question then must be, is sin an abomination before your God? If so, why aren't humans, who are apparently inevitably sinful, abominations?
quote:
2. Their particular brand of Christianity is the only "right" way and all other denominations are damned
To say Christianity should accept other "pathways" as "correct" is to say that Christianity should contradict itself. [...]
Yet, later on you say "They are willing to examine their beliefs and change accordingly if there is substantial evidence to do so." So would you or would you not change if you found out that your beliefs were not true?
quote:
Christianity is not a "feel good" religion.
A thousand years of the Dark Ages seem to support this statement.
quote:
The truth often isn't. And for me - that is the truth. And discomfort with that belief is not going to make me give it up any more so than the truth about the reality of the holocaust will make me stop believing it happened.
So how is religious belief anyway? It seems like you will never change, no matter what. Am I understanding you correctly? If christianity is right, then why isn't everyone christians? It would be a simple matter for any omnipotent god to force us to believe in him. Instead, he resorts to common blackmailing.
quote:
3. Women must be subserviant to men
The Bible teaches that women are to be submissive to their husbands, and that a man is to love his wife, and treat her as if she was his own body. Obviously, if both husband and wife are true to this, the result is a loving, respectful relationship.
Absolutely, as long as both are ok with those arrangements, then noone can say anything about that. But then there are some people who disagree, and that is just as ok, as we all know. Obviously I'm a liberal.
quote:
9. The United States was formed as a wholly Christian nation
This is a very debatable topic - by no means clear cut. I would doubt wholly Christian - but perhaps predominantly Christian. After my Creation/Evolution reading binge, perhaps I will take on American history. 
As a non-American people might accuse me of telling you what to do, but I have to say that even if USA was formed as a christian nation, would that fact alone be a reason to keep it that way, and possibly even turn it back even more? I don't think so.
quote:
11. Homosexuality can be cured through prayer
Cured? No - it's not an illness. It is, debatably, a choice (if anyone would like to challenge that - let me know). And yes, per #1, I may very well pray for someone who is homosexual, just as I would pray for someone who is a murderer, or a thief, or anything else.
Lifestyle is a choice, I doubt that sexual preferences are. But even if they were - so what? And what do you mean by your last statement? Do you somehow compare murderers and thieves to people who are simply different from you or me?
quote:
13. Evolution (deliberately misspelled Evilution) attacks Christianity
Evolution and fundamentalist Christianity are mutually exclusive. And reading some of the Evolutionary literature out there it is no wonder that some view it as an attack. You don't have to look any further than these forums to see that. You don't even have to look further than this thread. Evolution and anti-fundamentalism often go hand in hand - much as Creation and anti-atheism often go hand in hand.
Science does not attack anyone's literal belief in fantasy sories. It's a method to study the world around us, and to form theories to describe and explain it. If people wish to believe in anything that is completely unsupported instead of that which is, then they still have that choice.
quote:
14. Young Earth Creationism is the only right theory about species
Well of course. They wouldn't be fundamentalists if that were not the case. That one is true.
That does not mean, however, that we blind ourselves to science. I happen to be very open to science (most sincere fundamentalists are). I have not been researching Creationism/Evolution long, but thus far I have seen nothing conclusive for either side of the debate. If it turns out to be evolution, then I would instantly re-examine all of my beliefs. I don't think, however, that we will ever have conclusive evidence either way.
But the scientific methods are not good enough for searching for a greater understanding of our cosmos, is this right? Is religion better, and if so, why? I have realized that when people say they are open to science, they are open to a certain extent, very carefully avoiding anything that might contradict their beliefs which they already made their minds up with. Also, a great many people seem even more open to pseudoscience, such as astrology, homeopathy and creationism.
quote:
15. Science attacks Christianity
As in #13, I believe scientific chauvinism - not science - attacks Christianity, as well as Evolution.
Explain further?
-----------------------------------------
quote:
I would like to offer a different set of criteria for a true Christian fundamentalist.
1. They honestly seek the truth.
2. They are willing to examine their beliefs and change accordingly if there is substantial evidence to do so.
Sounds like science. So, can you really be a fundamentalist if you run the risk of losing your beli |
"Life is but a momentary glimpse of the wonder of this astonishing universe, and it is sad to see so many dreaming it away on spiritual fantasy." -- Carl Sagan |
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Renae
SFN Regular
543 Posts |
Posted - 06/13/2004 : 05:17:00 [Permalink]
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Verso, thank you for such a level-headed, well-written post. 
While I couldn't be as articulate as Val, here's how I see fundamentalists:
1. Do not think critically about their religion
2. Accept Bible as fact
3. Show a tendency toward black/white, either/or thinking
4. Demonize other religions, even other Christians at times, as "wrong" with the accompanying insistence that they are "right"
5. Believe in Universal Truth and that they've found it
6. Are impossible to reason with and are so thin-skinned that debate is impossible or nearly so
7. Embrace a fear-and control-based religion rather than one of love and acceptance (and dare I say, many have control issues?)
I realize the above is heavily laced with my own biases and values, so apologies to you more empirical-thinking skeptics. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 06/13/2004 : 09:02:55 [Permalink]
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quote:
11. Homosexuality can be cured through prayer
Cured? No - it's not an illness. It is, debatably, a choice (if anyone would like to challenge that - let me know). And yes, per #1, I may very well pray for someone who is homosexual, just as I would pray for someone who is a murderer, or a thief, or anything else.
If memory serves, we've turned over this rock before.
I do not think that homosexuality is a choice. Simple logic tells me that no one in his/her right mind would choose homosexuality, if for no other reason than the social stigma attached to it. Occasionaly that stigma is so severe that murder results, to the Rev. Fred Phelps' orgasmic glee. Even organized murder, as in the case of Nazi Germany (with a few exceptions, notably Hitler's secretary) has happened.
Historicly, there have been a few societies with a tolorance for homosexualality, but there were not many. The ones I've read of were mainly in the Middle East. In this country, the situation seems to be easing up a little, to the Rev. Fred Phelps' abject dispair. It is interesting to observe the differences between now and, say, the '50s, when 'rolling queers' was something of an extra-currectular sport among some high schoolers.
From my reading, most if not all serial killers have some sort of sexual hang up, often homosexuality. John Wayne Gacy and Jeffery Dahlmer are two prime examples. On the other hand, Leonardo was reputed to be as gay as Uncle Ned's hatband, and see what he accomplished. I do not think that any of these 'made the choice'.
Is there some sort of a gay gene, a chemical predisposition toward homosexuality? I don't know but I think it's possible, perhaps even probable.
Edited to remove a sentence that was gibberish even to me. |
"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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| Edited by - filthy on 06/13/2004 09:05:18 |
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verso
Skeptic Friend
USA
76 Posts |
Posted - 06/13/2004 : 12:24:13 [Permalink]
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I'm only going to address two of your questions Maverick - and probably not the way you wanted them answered - but I think it's necessary.
quote:
quote:
Originally posted by verso
1. Homosexuals are an abomination before the Lord
No human is an abomination "before the Lord." Any sin, however, is.
[...]
A sincere Christian will recognize that he or she is just as sinful as anyone else. We are no better.
So everyone is sinful, and noone is an abomination before your God. My question then must be, is sin an abomination before your God? If so, why aren't humans, who are apparently inevitably sinful, abominations?
Your questions happen to be exactly what I was addressing. For example, “My question then must be, is sin an abomination before your God?” was explicitly addressed in the very quote you posted!
I am more than happy to discuss any of these points, but only if the “challenger” has carefully read my post. Otherwise the discussion deteriorates into a typical hit-and-run discussion with everyone talking past each other instead of to each other.
quote:
quote:
15. Science attacks Christianity
As in #13, I believe scientific chauvinism - not science - attacks Christianity, as well as Evolution.
Explain further?
Let me give you some examples of chauvinism.
“Science does not attack anyone's literal belief in fantasy sories.”
Calling someone's beliefs fantasy stories is not a good way to get a point across.
“I have realized that when people say they are open to science, they are open to a certain extent, very carefully avoiding anything that might contradict their beliefs which they already made their minds up with.”
If you know that is true, then you know more about me than I do.
“Also, a great many people seem even more open to pseudoscience, such as astrology, homeopathy and creationism.”
Etc etc.
A primary symptom of chauvinism is a constant barrage of inflammatory remarks. If we can't be objective, and keep emotion out of our discussions, then we may as well not even try.
If you want to see an attitude conducive to discussion, please refer to Filthy's or Renae's post. They don't have what I like to call the “sneer factor” :)
Renae:
quote:
1. Do not think critically about their religion
2. Accept Bible as fact
3. Show a tendency toward black/white, either/or thinking
4. Demonize other religions, even other Christians at times, as "wrong" with the accompanying insistence that they are "right"
5. Believe in Universal Truth and that they've found it
6. Are impossible to reason with and are so thin-skinned that debate is impossible or nearly so
7. Embrace a fear-and control-based religion rather than one of love and acceptance (and dare I say, many have control issues?)
Again, it is unfortunate that these are the prevailing impressions of fundamentalists. Hopefully through our discussions here, it will become apparent that these are not always the case. In fact, they are not typically the case – b |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 06/13/2004 : 13:25:29 [Permalink]
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Hmm. I think that 'lusting' and pursueing are two, different things. I myself lust for a new motorcycle, but I'm not going rob a series of liquor stores to get one.
Ok, bad anology. Sorry 'bout that. But to desire that which you do not have, perhaps cannot have, is perfectly normal. It only gets complicated in human relations. I believe that if you have made The Deal, committed yourself to a partnership whether it is solomnized or not by church and/or state, you are committed. Lust as you must, but don't pursue.
Beyond that, what a couple or group of consenting people do on their own time and in private, is really none of my business (and in many cases, I really don't want it to be any of my business. :shudder:)
I do not understand why the multiple divorce rate is so high -- Rush Limbaugh just dumped his third, I'm told. You'd think that after the first one, a person would learn to to be a little more discerning in their loves and lusts.
So now we are starting to see gay marriage. In due course, it will be interesting to see how their divorce rate turns out. I suspect that it will be about the same as for straight couples, humans being what they are.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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| Edited by - filthy on 06/13/2004 13:33:35 |
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard
USA
4907 Posts |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 06/13/2004 : 14:28:04 [Permalink]
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Robb started out:
quote:
What is your definition of a fundamentalist Christian or "fundie' besides bad writing (Dr. Mabuse).
It wasn't my intention to use bad writing as any kind of definition of a Fundie(tm), but rather to point out that fundies are grossly over-represented in that category.
There are of course exceptions to this rule. I think Doomar is one of those exceptions, as is verso whom I will be quoting below...
quote:
Originally posted by verso
1. Homosexuals are an abomination before the Lord
No human is an abomination "before the Lord." Any sin, however, is.
<snip>
Does that mean we look down our noses at them? Not at all! A sincere Christian will recognize that he or she is just as sinful as anyone else. We are no better. And with that attitude, we are to welcome anyone who comes into our presence. Do we accept the sin? No. Does that effect how we treat the person? No - it does not.
Do you look down your noses at them? Of course you do!
Does that effect how you treat that person? It shouldn't. But it does.
I've seen firsthand how out-of-the-closet homosexuals have been treated in churches that preach the style of worship you adhere to. And I'm not impressed.
quote:
2. Their particular brand of Christianity is the only "right" way and all other denominations are damned
Christianity is not a "feel good" religion. The truth often isn't. And for me - that is the truth. And discomfort with that belief is not going to make me give it up any more so than the truth about the reality of the holocaust will make me stop believing it happened.
Then, how discomforting it may be, you might be sharing your afterlife with all the members of the Catholic Church, and even members of the Russian Orthodox Church, even if Southern Baptists say they are going to burn in hell. Who's right? Them Baptists might even suggest you will burn in hell for thinking that Catholics are right enough to go to heaven.
Even though I used to be Pentecostal, I found more "good" Christians in the Church of Sweden, which is Lutheran, than in my own Pentecostal Church. Mainly because they realised that they weren't "holier-than-thou". They had more vices yes, they smoked, they drank, they cursed. But they also acted better toward their fellow people. Of course, the other Pentecostals looked down their noses at me for consorting with them. At least that's the impression I got.
quote:
11. Homosexuality can be cured through prayer
Cured? No - it's not an illness. It is, debatably, a choice (if anyone would like to challenge that - let me know).
This has been much debated in the Social Issues Forum, but no-one has written in that particular thread for quite a while. A new thread might give a fresh restart.
quote:
13. Evolution (deliberately misspelled Evilution) attacks Christianity
Evolution and fundamentalist Christianity are mutually exclusive. And reading some of the Evolutionary literature out there it is no wonder that some view it as an attack. You don't have to look any further than these forums to see that. You don't even have to look further than this thread. Evolution and anti-fundamentalism often go hand in hand - much as Creation and anti-atheism often go hand in hand.
Interesting comparison. I wonder how many Christians would make such an observation.
quote:
14. Young Earth Creationism is the only right theory about species
<snip>
If it turns out to be evolution, then I would instantly re-examine all of my beliefs. I don't think, however, that we will ever have conclusive evidence either way.
Ah... And herein lies one of the crucial problems: many Fundies do not accept evidence put forth, or when evidence are conclusive they adjust the initial premise upon which the evidence should be judged.
Evolution is very slow process, and most of the evidence are found examining the past.
quote:
15. Science attacks Christianity
As in #13, I believe scientific chauvinism - not science - attacks Christianity, as well as Evolution.
Do you mean Evolution-chauvinism attacks Christianity, or evolution attacks Christianity?
The Theory of Evolution is a scientific theory describing the process of biological evolution. As such, it takes no stand neither for nor against God. In fact, it makes no statement about God or Christianity what-so-ever. Anyone who think so obviously don't understand what science is about.
quote:
I would like to offer a different set of criteria for a true Christian fundamentalist.
<snip>
I'm sure I could think of more, but those are the important ones. Not to mention I'm freaking tired, and this took forever to write.
This does not describe the kind of people we, or at least I, classify as Fundie(tm). But I hope that my kind of Fundie(tm) would change into the kind of fundamentalist you describe as an ideal fundie.
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Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
| Edited by - Dr. Mabuse on 06/13/2004 16:57:14 |
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