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verlch
SFN Regular
781 Posts |
 Posted - 06/18/2004 : 11:31:01 [Permalink]
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Sorry dude I don't consider missing teeth transitional fossils. Telling me that dogs, weasels and foxes are all from the same mother doesn't mean it happened.
I want to hear about the biggest transformer of them all, the mother fish. Nobody talks about it. I want to see how insects and birds came from this super fish. Monkies and humans, elephants and mammoths, lions and saber tooth tigers, ok. I want to see dinosaurs and fish. Elephants and fish. Walking fish growing hair, and arms and legs, holves and the whole gamet. For this 'theory' to be defended with an all out war as fact. You guys have a whole lot of explaining to do to prove it. No fossil record of macroevolution, and no visible evidence of macroevolution happening today doesn't help your cause. There are literally 500 trillion X 500 trilion living entities on this planet. And no macroevoltion visible. No fish walking around with hooves, or fingers, or hairy armpits!!! Nothing but silence. |
What came first the chicken or the egg?
How do plants exist without bugs in the soil, and bugs in the soil without plants producing oxygen?
There are no atheists in foxholes
Underlying the evolutionary theory is not just the classic "stuff" of science — conclusions arrived at through prolonged observation and experimentation. Evolution is first an atheistic, materialistic world view. In other words, the primary reason for its acceptance has little to do with the evidence for or against it. Evolution is accepted because men are atheists by faith and thus interpret the evidence to cor-respond to their naturalistic philosophy.
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. II Timothy 4:3,4
II Thess. 2:11 And for this cause God shall
send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
You can not see the 'wind', but you can see its effect!!!!
Evolution was caused by genetic mistakes at each stage?
Radical Evolution has 500 million years to find fossils of fictional drawings of (hard core)missing links, yet they find none.
We have not seen such moral darkness since the dark ages, coencides with
teaching evolution in schools. (Moral darkness)
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places, EPH 6:12.
"Thus, many scientists embracing naturalism find themselves in the seeming dilemma recently articulated by biochemist Franklin Harold: "We should reject, as a matter of principle, the substitution of intelligent design for the dialogue of chance and necessity [i.e., Darwinian evolution]; but we must concede that there are presently no detailed Darwinian accounts of the evolution of any biochemical system, only a variety of wishful speculations."
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Trish
SFN Addict
USA
2102 Posts |
Posted - 06/18/2004 : 11:34:50 [Permalink]
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quote:
How does something appear fully formed in the fossil record. Did God create a bat 450 million years ago missing with more teeth and a unkeeled sternum, and it took another 400 million years to get that straightend out!!! Just another fine example of how weak and imperfect God is!!! He is fully capable of creating life, just not perfect, so we need Darwin and his team of geniuses to step in and straighten out the facts from fiction!!!!
It is quite possible that the fossils of earlier ancestors to the bat have, a) not been found, b) not been recognized as such, c) not been preserved fully in the fossile record. Lack of evidence Verlch is not necessarily evidence of lack. This simply means that until such time as evidence presents itself with regard to the lineage of the bat, we must accept 'we don't know' as an answer. This does not imply nor should it that the bat is evidence of the intrusion in the natural world of a supernatural entity. For this to be the case, there should be some evidentiary support for the intrusion of said entity, you cannot however, posit lack of evidence with regard to the bat as evidence of said entity.
This is generally refered to the 'god of the gaps' argument. The problem with the argument Verlch, is that such an argument cannot stand as more knowledge is gained filling such gaps in knowledge. While it is quite probable that we will never fill in some of these gaps, filling them with the 'god did it' concept is untenable. First you must show your premise 'god' true before positing 'god did it'.
edited for minor misspelling correction |
...no one has ever found a 4.5 billion year old stone artifact (at the right geological stratum) with the words "Made by God."
No Sense of Obligation by Matt Young
"Say what you will about the sweet miracle of unquestioning faith. I consider the capacity for it terrifying and vile!"
Mother Night by Kurt Vonnegut, Jr.
They (Women Marines) don't have a nickname, and they don't need one. They get their basic training in a Marine atmosphere, at a Marine Post. They inherit the traditions of the Marines. They are Marines.
LtGen Thomas Holcomb, USMC
Commandant of the Marine Corps, 1943
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| Edited by - Trish on 06/18/2004 11:36:47 |
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Trish
SFN Addict
USA
2102 Posts |
Posted - 06/18/2004 : 11:48:42 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by verlch
Sorry dude I don't consider missing teeth transitional fossils. Telling me that dogs, weasels and foxes are all from the same mother doesn't mean it happened.
I want to hear about the biggest transformer of them all, the mother fish. Nobody talks about it. I want to see how insects and birds came from this super fish. Monkies and humans, elephants and mammoths, lions and saber tooth tigers, ok. I want to see dinosaurs and fish. Elephants and fish. Walking fish growing hair, and arms and legs, holves and the whole gamet. For this 'theory' to be defended with an all out war as fact. You guys have a whole lot of explaining to do to prove it. No fossil record of macroevolution, and no visible evidence of macroevolution happening today doesn't help your cause. There are literally 500 trillion X 500 trilion living entities on this planet. And no macroevoltion visible. No fish walking around with hooves, or fingers, or hairy armpits!!! Nothing but silence.
The skeleton of whales show vestigial hipbones. The bones themselves serve no purpose, but lead us to believe that whales once were land animals. They continue to meet all definitions of mammals, air breathers, live birth, warm blooded, etc.
For every transitional fossil shown, A - E, the request for the next fossil is asked. A - C, then A - B, then...
I will propose however, that macro evolution is currently taking place, using the equids as an example.
quote:
Under conditions of domestication it is possible to obtain hybrids between equid species. There are records of onager/ass, onager/horse and zebra/horse (zebroids) crosses, but the cross that has been most significant in human history is one between horses and donkeys. Breeding a male donkey to a female horse results in a mule; breeding a male horse to a female donkey produces a hinny.
Offspring from either cross, although fully developed as males or females, are almost always sterile. Hence, a line of horses and a line of domestic asses must be maintained to perpetuate mule or hinny production.
What we don't know, is how much longer before the horse/ass crosses will be possible before complete speciation between the two prevent such breeding. If they were fully compatible species, the offspring should mostly be fertile, as you have within the canids or within the felines. |
...no one has ever found a 4.5 billion year old stone artifact (at the right geological stratum) with the words "Made by God."
No Sense of Obligation by Matt Young
"Say what you will about the sweet miracle of unquestioning faith. I consider the capacity for it terrifying and vile!"
Mother Night by Kurt Vonnegut, Jr.
They (Women Marines) don't have a nickname, and they don't need one. They get their basic training in a Marine atmosphere, at a Marine Post. They inherit the traditions of the Marines. They are Marines.
LtGen Thomas Holcomb, USMC
Commandant of the Marine Corps, 1943
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 06/18/2004 : 12:16:35 [Permalink]
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Verlch wrote:quote:
How does something appear fully formed in the fossil record.
The previous forms didn't fossilize (due to the climate in which they lived or other reasons). The fact that we can't seem to find "protobat" fossils doesn't mean that there were no protobats.quote:
There are literally 500 trillion X 500 trilion living entities on this planet.
This is another assertion you have yet to provide evidence for. I was under the impression that we were on the verge of reaching an understanding. Apparently not, since this is the same old crap you've been pulling for weeks now.quote:
And no macroevoltion visible.
See above regarding unsupported assertions.quote:
No fish walking around with hooves, or fingers, or hairy armpits!!!
If that's what you think "macroevolution" means, you are sadly mistaken, and your requests to see evidence of macroevolution happening today are quixotic, at best. You have already been directed to evidence of macroevolution in action within the last 100 years. With the whacky ideas about what it "should" be that you appear to have, it is not surprising that you reject it as unsatisfactory. But, you might as well be claiming that there are no automobiles, because the roots of the word means "moves by itself," yet people driving cars have to push the gas pedal and turn the wheels, so cars are not automobiles.
In other words, if you use a different definition from both scientists and other creationists, you're going to be left behind.quote:
Nothing but silence.
To paraphrase a popular work, there is nobody who is as deaf as he who will not hear. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 06/18/2004 : 12:37:33 [Permalink]
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I seem to recall posting a reference for reptile to mammal transition, way back there in the first verlch go-round. Obviously, it was ignored. Oh well. Here 'tis again:
http://www.gcssepm.org/special/cuffey_05.htm
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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verlch
SFN Regular
781 Posts |
Posted - 06/18/2004 : 12:50:10 [Permalink]
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Breeding a male donkey to a female horse results in a mule;
The mule is unable to reproduce... |
What came first the chicken or the egg?
How do plants exist without bugs in the soil, and bugs in the soil without plants producing oxygen?
There are no atheists in foxholes
Underlying the evolutionary theory is not just the classic "stuff" of science — conclusions arrived at through prolonged observation and experimentation. Evolution is first an atheistic, materialistic world view. In other words, the primary reason for its acceptance has little to do with the evidence for or against it. Evolution is accepted because men are atheists by faith and thus interpret the evidence to cor-respond to their naturalistic philosophy.
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. II Timothy 4:3,4
II Thess. 2:11 And for this cause God shall
send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
You can not see the 'wind', but you can see its effect!!!!
Evolution was caused by genetic mistakes at each stage?
Radical Evolution has 500 million years to find fossils of fictional drawings of (hard core)missing links, yet they find none.
We have not seen such moral darkness since the dark ages, coencides with
teaching evolution in schools. (Moral darkness)
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places, EPH 6:12.
"Thus, many scientists embracing naturalism find themselves in the seeming dilemma recently articulated by biochemist Franklin Harold: "We should reject, as a matter of principle, the substitution of intelligent design for the dialogue of chance and necessity [i.e., Darwinian evolution]; but we must concede that there are presently no detailed Darwinian accounts of the evolution of any biochemical system, only a variety of wishful speculations."
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 06/18/2004 : 13:19:14 [Permalink]
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verlch wrote:quote:
Breeding a male donkey to a female horse results in a mule;
The mule is unable to reproduce...
So what? Do you think that scientists think that evolution happens due to "mixing" genes between different species? That idea was debunked over a hundred years ago, by scientists. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 06/18/2004 : 13:32:10 [Permalink]
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And a mare donkey to a horse stallion results in a hinny. :rolleyes:
I don't have a reference at hand, but I've read that once in a while some few mules are viable. I'll look around and see if I can find it.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 06/18/2004 : 13:43:46 [Permalink]
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Verlch wrote:
quote:
Many digs have been done and have proven the bible true on that side. King David has been found outside the bible as have King Solomon and Jesus. Sodom and Gommorh have been found as have other cities described in the bible.
Hi, Verlch. While I'm sure this topic has come up before, I'm happy to address them again (even if it's unlikely you're going to pay any attention).
So to begin: the biblical Sodom and Gommorah have not been found. Sure, lots of biblical literalists have speculated as to their location. However, there has never been an actual excavation which revealed any sort of settlement or other evidence of occupations. And the recent hype over the so-called James ossuary was just that, as it is now pretty clear that the addition "brother of Jesus" was an early forgery.
Nevertheless, as you note many aspects of the Bible have been confirmed from extra-biblical sources. Assyrian and Babylonian annals mention Judah-- and even include a Judaite king in a list of people taken back to Assyria after military conquest!
Here's the question, though: so what? No serious scholar thinks that the Bible is simply made up. There are different schools of thought on just how much of the Bible acurately described the political reality of the time, but even biblical minimalists like Israel Finkelstein wouldn't argue that there was no political entity called Israel or Judah.
Even if there were really a person named David who ruled a small state in the Levant early in the first millennium, that doesn't mean that there really is a god Yahweh, or that evolution is a lie. After all, I don't hear you argue much that, say, Marduk is a real god just because archaeology has confirmed that much of what Nebuchadnezzar wrote in his annals, right? |
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moakley
SFN Regular
USA
1888 Posts |
Posted - 06/18/2004 : 19:22:59 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by filthy
I seem to recall posting a reference for reptile to mammal transition, way back there in the first verlch go-round. Obviously, it was ignored. Oh well. Here 'tis again:
http://www.gcssepm.org/special/cuffey_05.htm
Ignored and dismissed with a simple wave of his hand. Verlch is so thoruoughly programmed that he could not recognize a rational thought. His eyes and mind are closed to the wonders and possibilities beyond the christian mythologies. He will remain ignorant. |
Life is good
Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. -Anonymous |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 06/18/2004 : 19:35:50 [Permalink]
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quote:
His eyes and mind are closed to the wonders and possibilities beyond the christian mythologies. He will remain ignorant.
Yep.... I think your right. |
Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 06/18/2004 : 19:48:12 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by moakley
quote:
Originally posted by filthy
I seem to recall posting a reference for reptile to mammal transition, way back there in the first verlch go-round. Obviously, it was ignored. Oh well. Here 'tis again:
http://www.gcssepm.org/special/cuffey_05.htm
Ignored and dismissed with a simple wave of his hand. Verlch is so thoruoughly programmed that he could not recognize a rational thought. His eyes and mind are closed to the wonders and possibilities beyond the christian mythologies. He will remain ignorant.
Yeh, I know. I have tried various tactics, from sweet reason to outright nastiness, and all have blown by him like a summer wind; there and moving the leaves around, but unnoticed by all but the trees. I've got to admire his tenacity, though.
But then, as Miss Cleo is out of business, who knows what the future might hold? The Big V might have an epiphany. 
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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| Edited by - filthy on 06/18/2004 19:49:41 |
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verlch
SFN Regular
781 Posts |
Posted - 06/18/2004 : 21:09:44 [Permalink]
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quote:
So what? Do you think that scientists think that evolution happens due to "mixing" genes between different species? That idea was debunked over a hundred years ago, by scientists.
So what...Fish stop evolving into other species because the magic mother nature clock waved its magic wand? So the truth is after 5 billion years fish lose the capacity to evolve into other creaturs...despite that fact that all land breathing entities all came from the fish of the deep?!!? He he, and I'm a lost cause!!! I would sure like to observe one Cross/species/transgendered/anomily in the wild!!!! With several trillion fish in the sea, it would be nice to observe one super fish swimming to and fro!!!!
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What came first the chicken or the egg?
How do plants exist without bugs in the soil, and bugs in the soil without plants producing oxygen?
There are no atheists in foxholes
Underlying the evolutionary theory is not just the classic "stuff" of science — conclusions arrived at through prolonged observation and experimentation. Evolution is first an atheistic, materialistic world view. In other words, the primary reason for its acceptance has little to do with the evidence for or against it. Evolution is accepted because men are atheists by faith and thus interpret the evidence to cor-respond to their naturalistic philosophy.
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. II Timothy 4:3,4
II Thess. 2:11 And for this cause God shall
send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
You can not see the 'wind', but you can see its effect!!!!
Evolution was caused by genetic mistakes at each stage?
Radical Evolution has 500 million years to find fossils of fictional drawings of (hard core)missing links, yet they find none.
We have not seen such moral darkness since the dark ages, coencides with
teaching evolution in schools. (Moral darkness)
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places, EPH 6:12.
"Thus, many scientists embracing naturalism find themselves in the seeming dilemma recently articulated by biochemist Franklin Harold: "We should reject, as a matter of principle, the substitution of intelligent design for the dialogue of chance and necessity [i.e., Darwinian evolution]; but we must concede that there are presently no detailed Darwinian accounts of the evolution of any biochemical system, only a variety of wishful speculations."
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 06/18/2004 : 21:28:47 [Permalink]
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Verlch wrote:quote:
So what...Fish stop evolving into other species because the magic mother nature clock waved its magic wand?
No. When is it that you will stop proclaiming your incorrect views about evolution and instead ask, "so, how does evolution really work?" Ever?
Hint: try looking up information about mudskippers. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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gm137
New Member
United Kingdom
14 Posts |
Posted - 06/18/2004 : 23:01:56 [Permalink]
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| Verlch, who said fish had stopped evolving? |
The name's Bond; Ionic bond. |
| Edited by - gm137 on 06/18/2004 23:15:00 |
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