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Trish
SFN Addict
USA
2102 Posts |
 Posted - 06/04/2001 : 15:40:02 [Permalink]
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quote:
If one sees a 'Hollywood' story I would think he'd be smart enough to research further if interested in the subject. Who takes that seriously?
The shrub seems to think we're capable of an Armageddon type assault on an asteroid. Read some of his comments regarding 'star wars'. Then go here http://www.badastronomy.com/bad/movies/armpitageddon.html
He's YOUR god, they're YOUR rules, YOU burn in hell! |
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 06/04/2001 : 15:40:08 [Permalink]
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quote:
People are often not bright enough to distinguish fiction from reality. After some episodes of America's Most Wanted, the actors doing the re-enactments were reported to police! Hello!!
All I can say is.....And these people vote!
Hey, we all have to put up with a lot of different views in the world. It would be nice if we could have better informed people but how do we change the whole world?
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Trish
SFN Addict
USA
2102 Posts |
Posted - 06/04/2001 : 18:21:53 [Permalink]
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Snake: Please read my previous post. This is a result of poor research and science in the movie/tv industry. Hollyweird, feels no social/moral obligation to enlighten the masses regarding real science, psychology etc. There are no real facts presented in any manner through our media that requires engaging higher thinking or cognitive reasoning skills.
The media presents disinformation in an easily consumable format. You sit and watch, this does not require your mental engagement. This is generally why tv and movies are referred to as escapist entertainment. Hollyweird functions and makes its money on the concept of *suspension of disbelief*. The exact opposite of what skeptics and reasoning individuals practice.
He's YOUR god, they're YOUR rules, YOU burn in hell! |
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 06/04/2001 : 18:40:43 [Permalink]
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quote:
Snake: Please read my previous post. This is a result of poor research and science in the movie/tv industry. Hollyweird, feels no social/moral obligation to enlighten the masses regarding real science, psychology etc. There are no real facts presented in any manner through our media that requires engaging higher thinking or cognitive reasoning skills.
The media presents disinformation in an easily consumable format. You sit and watch, this does not require your mental engagement. This is generally why tv and movies are referred to as escapist entertainment. Hollyweird functions and makes its money on the concept of *suspension of disbelief*. The exact opposite of what skeptics and reasoning individuals practice.
Yes, that's their job when they are producing entertainment. It does not have to be factualy correct. Who said it had to be? LOL, btw, if it was it would be pretty dull. |
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@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
Posted - 06/04/2001 : 18:56:52 [Permalink]
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The problem is that people do take stuff they see in TV and movies as factual. Not everyone, but enough. Actually a significant number of people. Check out Fox Wednesday night as they delve into the Noah's Ark issue LOL
@tomic
Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law! |
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Trish
SFN Addict
USA
2102 Posts |
Posted - 06/04/2001 : 18:57:55 [Permalink]
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Snake:
quote:
What's wrong with learning from TV? Most of what I know is from watching 'The Lone Ranger' and 'Perry Mason' and other shows like those.
You implied school and learning are unnecessary with this response.
quote:
There is a lot of wealth and potential of TV to be informative. 'What's a matter U', don't watch PBS?
Another thought: you can always tell who the people are who watch soap operas, LOL, they are always hyper and worried about what MIGHT happen, even if the probability is low. You see, TV teaches you to stay away from those kinds of people and not get caught up in there drama.
Yes I do watch PBS, my particularly favorite show happens to be COSMOS, which is unfortunately no longer shown as a complete series. I also enjoyed Stephen Hawkings Universe.
Your assuming that I watch soaps because you think I'm uptight? I am uptight when it comes to the future education level in America and the world in general. I don't appreciate being attacked by ignorant individuals incapable of forming a coherent thought without having it spoon fed to them (no I am not necessarily referring to you).
Children need to learn critical thinking skills and yes the TV can be used as a tool, but it is by no means a substitute for a real education! By read education I refer to something other than what our public school systems are guilty of also, I refer to teaching children tools to aquire information without spoon feeding them what they need to know for graduation! They need to learn problem solving, how does TV teach problem solving, it doesn't. The bad guy is delivered to you on a silver platter when the good guy catches him.
I also live in an area where two young men chose to follow the example provided on the TV and in a movie show. They were Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold! They killed 11 students at Columbine HS right down the road from me. At that time I was actively involved with teens who had friends attending Columbine.
You buddy hit one of my hot buttons. Education and Fundies. The lack of the first leads to the formation of the latter!
He's YOUR god, they're YOUR rules, YOU burn in hell!
Edited by - Trish on 06/04/2001 19:07:34 |
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 06/04/2001 : 19:57:55 [Permalink]
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quote:
Your assuming that I watch soaps because you think I'm uptight?
How the hell would I know if you watch soap operas. Who said anything about your TV habits?
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I am uptight when it comes to the future education level in America and the world in general.
Thanks for telling me you are up tight, I didn't know that either.
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They need to learn problem solving, how does TV teach problem solving, it doesn't.
I think it does. Perhaps we don't have the same shows. Los Angeles has a Homework Hotline on TV for one thing. It's a call in show for LAUSD school kids. LOL, they solve problems!
quote:
I also live in an area where two young men chose to follow the example provided on the TV and in a movie show. They were Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold!
TV was not to blame for that, IMO.
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 06/04/2001 : 20:12:01 [Permalink]
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quote:
The problem is that people do take stuff they see in TV and movies as factual. Not everyone, but enough. Actually a significant number of people. Check out Fox Wednesday night as they delve into the Noah's Ark issue LOL
@tomic
Dear Mr. Tomic, BTW, @tomic, great SN. ; )
Want to give me some of your thoughts as to why that is important?
?= So what, let them. While we are laughing at them and moving on to bigger and better opportunities, they are stuck in their little minds unable to break free. Is that so bad? |
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Trish
SFN Addict
USA
2102 Posts |
Posted - 06/04/2001 : 22:19:11 [Permalink]
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quote:
There is a lot of wealth and potential of TV to be informative. 'What's a matter U', don't watch PBS?
Another thought: you can always tell who the people are who watch soap operas, LOL, they are always hyper and worried about what MIGHT happen, even if the probability is low. You see, TV teaches you to stay away from those kinds of people and not get caught up in there drama.
Snake: this is from your post on page 2. In response to a statement I made. This is where the idea of uptight and soaps came from...your post!
I applaud LA for having a show for helping with homework. However, that's a homework help! Denver Metro Area has a homework hotline through CU Boulder.
But when my kid asks a question I don't supply the answer, I walk her through the process of finding the answer.
Unfortunately, much of the TV is not in this vein! Which means that they are watching Fox's terrible programs about the Moon Hoax and Alien Autopsy! Or lets see, what's the stop motion anim on WB, or Buffy or Simpsons or take your pick! There are tons out there.
As for Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold, I don't know if the national rags or TV carried the specifics of their manifesto. Local news media did! I was involved with kids when it happened! I know kids who personally knew Harris and Klebold! I know what they talked about, the Trenchcoat Mafia! This in reference to a movie! I sat through the discussions of the whys and wherefors of the Columbine shootings! I went with the kids that asked me to go to the support groups! This was big news in Colorado and that's where I live! I also have friends with the Jefferson County Sheriffs Department, the primary responding force, my brother was sent as support from his PD since he's a SWAT member and with the North Metro Gang and Drug Task Force! This was very close to home for me. TV news coverage of prior shootings did have something to do with the way they planned their shooting spree. They had propane bombs they that failed, otherwise the death tole might have been higher. A direct quote from their manifesto: Our body counts gonna be higher! TELL ME TV HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH AGAIN!
He's YOUR god, they're YOUR rules, YOU burn in hell! |
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 06/04/2001 : 23:12:47 [Permalink]
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quote:
quote:
There is a lot of wealth and potential of TV to be informative. 'What's a matter U', don't watch PBS?
Another thought: you can always tell who the people are who watch soap operas, LOL, they are always hyper and worried about what MIGHT happen, even if the probability is low. You see, TV teaches you to stay away from those kinds of people and not get caught up in there drama.
quote:
Snake: this is from your post on page 2. In response to a statement I made. This is where the idea of uptight and soaps came from...your post!
Yes, and the point IS? If you are trying to tell me you took that personaly, it's not my fault. Where does it say anything about what you watch? When I make an accusation you'll know it.
quote:
Unfortunately, much of the TV is not in this vein! Which means that they are watching Fox's terrible programs about the Moon Hoax and Alien Autopsy! Or lets see, what's the stop motion anim on WB, or Buffy or Simpsons or take your pick! There are tons out there.!
The Alien Autopsy was hilarious. And excuse ME! But so is The Simpsons. Who's fault is it if YOUR kids watch that stuff and you don't want them to?
[quote]TV news coverage of prior shootings did have something to do with the way they planned their shooting spree. They had propane bombs they that failed, otherwise the death tole might have been higher. A direct quote from their manifesto: Our body counts gonna be higher! TELL ME TV HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH AGAIN!
People like that would do that anyway, so if they don't see it in a movie they'll read it in a book or think of it themselves. Do you want to limit any speech YOU find offensive and not let others read what they want. IF what they did was because of an idea they got from somewhere, TV or whatever, how is it that the whole world is not rampant with other crazies doing that? It's them, not the TV. Seems to me from what I heard, that the parents 'didn't have a clue', how is that also the TV's fault?
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Trish
SFN Addict
USA
2102 Posts |
Posted - 06/04/2001 : 23:41:09 [Permalink]
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quote:
People like that would do that anyway, so if they don't see it in a movie they'll read it in a book or think of it themselves. Do you want to limit any speech YOU find offensive and not let others read what they want. IF what they did was because of an idea they got from somewhere, TV or whatever, how is it that the whole world is not rampant with other crazies doing that? It's them, not the TV. Seems to me from what I heard, that the parents 'didn't have a clue', how is that also the TV's fault?
No the entire blame does not rest with the TV. That's not my point here. The TV was a catalyst. There were a lot of failures leading to the Columbine shootings. I am saying that TV did play a role in the way they planned and carried out their rampage. Parents failed, classmates failed, the police failed etc ad infinitum. However, they may not have conceived of the idea if the prior shootings were not so glorified in the news media. They might have, we can't answer that. They had started planning this a year in advance so they could have a higher body count than the previous school shooters. They wanted to kill hundreds of other students. Yeah, the responsibility ultimately rests on the shoulders of Dylan and Klebold you'll get not argument from me there. I've said that from the begining (when it happened) and everyone was looking to place blame. TV was a big contributing factor.
As for my child, I think I stated previously I use the TV as an educational tool in honing her critical thinking skills. I watch the shows my daughter does, I sit and watch them with her! Mysteries of the Unexplained happens to be a very good show for honing critical thinking. Credulity v. Skeptism. In her opinion the moon hoax show was a waste of time and would have been better spent watching Voyager, where we could have discussed real science v science fiction.
You may not be aware of this so I will let you know now. I served five years in the USMC to protect our constitutional rights. I firmly believe in the right to freedom of speech, the right to carry a firearm, the right to freedom of religion or lack there of. I am not into suppressing anyones rights. I would not have dedicated five years of my life to the USMC had I believed otherwise.
That dedication does not limit my right to my beliefs, my opinions, my speech. And don't ever expect me not to be in your face when defending the same. I despise ignorance, that's my belief/opinion and I will use any and all means available to the defeat the same.
IMHO, educating a child with the crap on TV is ignorant! Which was the original starting point of this post.
If I misunderstood your post my apologies, this appeared, in the written medium, to be an ad hominen attack. I will not sheath my claws when I am attacked.
He's YOUR god, they're YOUR rules, YOU burn in hell!
Edited by - Trish on 06/05/2001 18:22:37 |
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Lisa
SFN Regular
USA
1223 Posts |
Posted - 06/05/2001 : 02:51:52 [Permalink]
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People who use TV as a free babysitter are doing their children and ultimately themselves a huge dis-service. To merely park a kid in front of the TV and consider then kid entertained is wrong. They have receiptive minds, and remember, they're getting garbage with fact.
Does anyone here remember when our "reading list" was posted on BA? Lots of SciFi/Fantasy. Let's settle on the words fiction and fantasy for a moment. We're all adults, or sophisticated young teen-agers. We all can differenciate between the flights of fancy and reality. Some children however (have you guys noticed I always have "However?) the line tends to be blurred. While we see the fantastic as a window to our imaginations, some troubled people see it as an antidote to their probems.
I think I know the movie Trish has referred to. Who here hasn't looked at a hated co-worker and fantasised about a handy weapon? Klebold and Harris took it a step further and pretty much re-enacted the revenge scene in the movie.
Where were their parents? You on this board talk to Megan. So do I, and her Dad and Stepmom. Also we talk to her stepsister. We know their hopes, their fears, and ambitions. Trish has it right, these kids aren't toys or decorations. They're future adults who deserve the best guidance and clear honest answers as we can possibly give them.
Lisa
Chaos...Confusion...Destruction...My Work Here Is Done |
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Tokyodreamer
SFN Regular
USA
1447 Posts |
Posted - 06/05/2001 : 10:01:05 [Permalink]
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quote:
People are often not bright enough to distinguish fiction from reality. After some episodes of America's Most Wanted, the actors doing the re-enactments were reported to police! Hello!!
@tomic
Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law!
And it's getting worse, not better...
Funny story: an ex-girlfriend of mine's mom worked at the local Crimestoppers, and they did reenactments for local crimes. My ex's sister's boyfriend was asked to do a reenactment of a car break-in. After it had aired, his mom called him, asking him to turn himself in!! 
Myself, I broke into a pizza place, and a lawn mower place. Ah, showbiz!
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Gambatte kudasai! |
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Trish
SFN Addict
USA
2102 Posts |
Posted - 06/05/2001 : 11:50:40 [Permalink]
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quote:
Does anyone here remember when our "reading list" was posted on BA? Lots of SciFi/Fantasy.
Yes, and we included, Michael Shermer, Carl Sagan and a few others as well. Fiction/Fantasy are escapists and not intended to be truth. Until children aquire the tools to judge fiction from fact parents have a huge responsibility to view TV with their children.
quote:
Myself, I broke into a pizza place, and a lawn mower place. Ah, showbiz!
Hey, Americas Most Wanted, I know that guy in the re-enactment, he lives in AL! LOL
He's YOUR god, they're YOUR rules, YOU burn in hell! |
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 06/05/2001 : 13:07:22 [Permalink]
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quote:
Funny story: an ex-girlfriend of mine's mom worked at the local Crimestoppers, and they did reenactments for local crimes. My ex's sister's boyfriend was asked to do a reenactment of a car break-in. After it had aired, his mom called him, asking him to turn himself in!!
Myself, I broke into a pizza place, and a lawn mower place. Ah, showbiz!
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Gambatte kudasai!
LOL. Something for your resume?
That happened to me too, sort of. My mother was a nurse. One time many years ago I saw on a soap opera someone talking about a disease. I wanted to know if it was a real one, so I told her I heard of someone who had...whatever symptoms. She got so serious and said, tell them to get to a doctor RIGHT AWAY.
Well, it was funny at the time.
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