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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
 Posted - 07/02/2004 : 18:27:13 [Permalink]
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Ricky wrote:quote:
I don't think that there really is a nailed down definition of macro change, I just think of it as a species who has changed so much it now looks nothing like its descendants.
The way biologists use the term, a "macro" change is at the species level or above. The way creationists use the term changes as soon as an example fitting their current definition is shown to them.
Dr. Mabuse wrote:quote:
That would obviously rule out Verlch when it comes to biology, chemistry(?), physics, and general science. And perhaps history as well...
When I was in high school, biology, chemistry and physics were all elective courses, not needed for graduation. There was no "general science" course. If I remember correctly, the only science course required of all students was called "Earth Science," a sort of "geology lite" with some environmental science and meteorology thrown in, for 14- and 15-year-olds.
With regards to history classes, state history was required in freshman year, and U.S. history in sophmore year. As juniors, we took "U.S. Government," which had some history in it, but was mostly about how the government worked - much of which was just re-hashing what we'd learned in middle school, years before. That was as far as the history requirements for graduation went.
Of course, this isn't to say that other classes weren't chock-full of history, it was just highly specialized history. In archetecture, I learned some of the history of the discipline. In French classes, we had to learn some of the history of France. English classes, of course, were often jam-packed with information about Elizabethan England when Shakespeare was being taught. I even remember the gym coaches sometimes telling us bits and pieces of sports history.
But, to really answer your question, the GED isn't a very difficult test, from what I've been led to believe. I do know someone who failed it three times (while in her late 20s), but she really sucked at "higher" math like multiplication and division (she used a calculator when she needed to do either at home or work, but couldn't do so during the tests). Anyway, if I was correct in that the GED tests for knowledge of the average graduate, it's looking to see if the testee is a C-level student or better. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard
USA
4907 Posts |
Posted - 07/02/2004 : 18:52:55 [Permalink]
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"When I was in high school, biology, chemistry and physics were all elective courses, not needed for graduation......" - Dave W.
When I was in high school (2 weeks ago, haha), 2 years of science were required to graduate. However, I would say about 90% of all the students took 3-4. As for history, we had to take World History, U.S. Hist I, and U.S. Hist II. World History (if I can remember) covered from the Vikings to 1700's. U.S. Hist I covered early U.S. to just post Civil war, and U.S. Hist II covered 1900 to present. |
Why continue? Because we must. Because we have the call. Because it is nobler to fight for rationality without winning than to give up in the face of continued defeats. Because whatever true progress humanity makes is through the rationality of the occasional individual and because any one individual we may win for the cause may do more for humanity than a hundred thousand who hug their superstitions to their breast.
- Isaac Asimov |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 07/02/2004 : 19:17:16 [Permalink]
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Ricky, such guidelines for graduation vary from state-to-state, and sometimes even county-to-county. I am surprised, however, that you weren't required to take a state history course. Virginia, of course, begin one of the original 13, is just awash with history, but I would have thought that every state would have that class.
How big was your graduating class, Ricky? More than 400 kids graduated along with me, but I took biology, chemistry, physics and biology II with - mostly - the same batch of 30 or so kids. Also, from another point-of-view, there were a lot of classrooms in my high school into which I never even saw, including the auto, metal and electrical shops, the typing and home-economics rooms, more language classes than I could shake a stick at (my high school was still offering Latin back then), pottery, art, music, drama and more. There were definitely enough students to fill the rooms, as otherwise the classes weren't offered (counselors tried to convince me to take an easier class than Calculus B&C, to try to get enough kids into Calculus A&B to keep the class). But when I graduated, I recognized perhaps 70 or 80 of the names of people getting diplomas.
In other words, I really doubt that with so much being offered, that most of the kids in my school took three or four years of science classes. I took five (two in my senior year). The end of junior year, for me, was actually a nerve-wracking experience, and if I remember correctly, out of six class periods a day, I was only required to take English in my senior year. So I had to figure out five electives, and was faced with an over-abundance of possibilities. I still didn't know what I wanted to be when I grew up (still don't, really). |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 07/03/2004 : 04:49:44 [Permalink]
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In Sweden, we're studying chemistry, physics, and biology the last three years of mandatory school (14-16 years of age).
In chemistry this include the periodic system, oxidization, basic organic chemistry such as methane, ethane... (that series which name escapes me for the moment) including writing the structure H-C=C-H.
In physics it's basic Newtonian physics, atomic and molecular movement equals heat, electricity (making it, and Ohm's Law, AC/DC and transforming)
Biology: Basic evolutionary theory is the last thing we do before graduation.
It would be cool to see some of those tests, to get a sense of how easy/difficult they are. |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard
USA
4907 Posts |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 07/03/2004 : 15:31:22 [Permalink]
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In Sweden, mandatory school with graduation at age 16 includes 6 years of English as a second language.
That's why most of the Swedes you'll ever encounter will probably be rather well spoken. |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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verlch
SFN Regular
781 Posts |
Posted - 07/05/2004 : 15:55:08 [Permalink]
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| You are forgetting that all of the tranistional species should be found living in at least 15% of the existing beings on earth!!!! |
What came first the chicken or the egg?
How do plants exist without bugs in the soil, and bugs in the soil without plants producing oxygen?
There are no atheists in foxholes
Underlying the evolutionary theory is not just the classic "stuff" of science — conclusions arrived at through prolonged observation and experimentation. Evolution is first an atheistic, materialistic world view. In other words, the primary reason for its acceptance has little to do with the evidence for or against it. Evolution is accepted because men are atheists by faith and thus interpret the evidence to cor-respond to their naturalistic philosophy.
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. II Timothy 4:3,4
II Thess. 2:11 And for this cause God shall
send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
You can not see the 'wind', but you can see its effect!!!!
Evolution was caused by genetic mistakes at each stage?
Radical Evolution has 500 million years to find fossils of fictional drawings of (hard core)missing links, yet they find none.
We have not seen such moral darkness since the dark ages, coencides with
teaching evolution in schools. (Moral darkness)
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places, EPH 6:12.
"Thus, many scientists embracing naturalism find themselves in the seeming dilemma recently articulated by biochemist Franklin Harold: "We should reject, as a matter of principle, the substitution of intelligent design for the dialogue of chance and necessity [i.e., Darwinian evolution]; but we must concede that there are presently no detailed Darwinian accounts of the evolution of any biochemical system, only a variety of wishful speculations."
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 07/05/2004 : 16:01:37 [Permalink]
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verlch wrote:quote:
You are forgetting that all of the tranistional species should be found living in at least 15% of the existing beings on earth!!!!
According to whom?
Ricky wrote:quote:
Did your school require gym?
Yeah, for only two years. Only English was required for four. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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moakley
SFN Regular
USA
1888 Posts |
Posted - 07/09/2004 : 19:32:41 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by verlch
Eeeny Minney minney mo, yeah its that one 'silver fish' ...
... Where the heck did the silverfish come from!!!! A dinosaur? Monkey poop? ...
Well done. You have now managed to lower my opinion of you. Just when I could not imagine having a lesser opinion, you come through with justification to do so.
You have shown no willingness to learn nor think beyond your book. I can see why you hold so desperately to your faith, it sure has simplified your life. Simple suits you. |
Life is good
Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. -Anonymous |
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ktesibios
SFN Regular
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 07/09/2004 : 19:55:16 [Permalink]
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Perhaps I'm a bit late with this, but...
I took the GED test in Pennsylvania in 1978. As I recall, all of the math I needed to pass it (BTW, my score was 98th percentile) I had learned by 9th grade. It didn't ask anything that hadn't been covered in 1st year algebra and the 9th grade geometry course.
As for gym, one year I went to a boarding school where I was able to get the (state-mandated) gym credit by splitting wood. I thought that was amazingly cool- they actually gave me academic credit for going out and hitting things with an axe.  |
"The Republican agenda is to turn the United States into a third-world shithole." -P.Z.Myers |
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verlch
SFN Regular
781 Posts |
Posted - 08/25/2004 : 18:02:58 [Permalink]
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quote:
Since 1977, other hot springs and associated sea life have been found at a number of sites along the mid-oceanic ridges, many on the East Pacific Rise. The waters around these deep-ocean hot springs, which can be as hot as 380 °C, are home to a unique ecosystem. Detailed studies have shown that hydrogen sulfide-oxidizing bacteria, which live symbiotically with the larger organisms, form the base of this ecosystem's food chain. The hydrogen sulfide (H2S--the gas that smells like rotten eggs) needed by these bacteria to live is contained in the volcanic gases that spew out of the hot springs. Most of the sulfur comes from the Earth's interior; a small portion (less than 15 percent) is produced by chemical reaction of the sulfate (SO4) present in the sea water. Thus, the energy source that sustains this deep-ocean ecosystem is not sunlight but rather the energy from chemical reaction (chemosynthesis).
Than you should be able to go to mars, or venus and find little bugs, or little green men evolving!!!!
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What came first the chicken or the egg?
How do plants exist without bugs in the soil, and bugs in the soil without plants producing oxygen?
There are no atheists in foxholes
Underlying the evolutionary theory is not just the classic "stuff" of science — conclusions arrived at through prolonged observation and experimentation. Evolution is first an atheistic, materialistic world view. In other words, the primary reason for its acceptance has little to do with the evidence for or against it. Evolution is accepted because men are atheists by faith and thus interpret the evidence to cor-respond to their naturalistic philosophy.
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. II Timothy 4:3,4
II Thess. 2:11 And for this cause God shall
send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
You can not see the 'wind', but you can see its effect!!!!
Evolution was caused by genetic mistakes at each stage?
Radical Evolution has 500 million years to find fossils of fictional drawings of (hard core)missing links, yet they find none.
We have not seen such moral darkness since the dark ages, coencides with
teaching evolution in schools. (Moral darkness)
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places, EPH 6:12.
"Thus, many scientists embracing naturalism find themselves in the seeming dilemma recently articulated by biochemist Franklin Harold: "We should reject, as a matter of principle, the substitution of intelligent design for the dialogue of chance and necessity [i.e., Darwinian evolution]; but we must concede that there are presently no detailed Darwinian accounts of the evolution of any biochemical system, only a variety of wishful speculations."
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 08/25/2004 : 18:06:33 [Permalink]
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verlch wrote:quote:
Than you should be able to go to mars, or venus and find little bugs, or little green men evolving!!!!
Except for the last phrase, you're mostly right. "...and perhaps find little bugs" would be a better wording. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 08/26/2004 : 23:17:03 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.
verlch wrote:quote:
Than you should be able to go to mars, or venus and find little bugs, or little green men evolving!!!!
Except for the last phrase, you're mostly right. "...and perhaps find little bugs" would be a better wording.
Indeed.
Verlch is also forgetting that liquid water seems to be a pre-requisite for life, which is currently not (as far as we know) available on either planets.
Fossils of bacteria, or perhaps even more complex life, might be found on Mars, but the geological activity on Venus have most probably destroyed any evidence long ago. |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 08/26/2004 : 23:46:57 [Permalink]
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There could be places on Venus where bacteria-like life exists. Won't know until we can build a very durable robot and send it there to look, and even then it probably wouldn't be able to access the most likely spots... underground.
If I remember correctly, the Soviets sent some landers in the early 80's to Venus, none of them lasted long, like an hour or so each.
As far as I am aware we don't have any plans currently for a Venus lander mission like what we have going on Mars now. |
Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 08/27/2004 : 04:19:42 [Permalink]
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It is thought that there might be some bacterial life in the atmosphere of Venus, which is largly carbon dioxide sulfuric acid droplets. There are examples here on Earth, colonial bacteria that consume minerals and excrete sulfuric acid. Some springs containing them can actually give you an acid burn with prolonged exposure.
Pretty neat, huh?
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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| Edited by - filthy on 08/27/2004 04:22:18 |
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