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coberst
Skeptic Friend
182 Posts |
 Posted - 07/30/2004 : 04:28:39
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I occasionally surf the secular forums and it seems to me that a vast majority of the threads are either AB (adolescent banter) or PC (philosophically correct). Most of this majority is AB threads and probably ten percent are PC threads wherein the participants argue over scholastic esoterica.
There was once a popular TV commercial that displayed an old Indian man traveling down the nation's waterways teary eyed as he viewed the trash and effluents that were destroying a beautiful nature.
I felt somewhat like the Old Indian when I observed these forums because I think we waste a valuable opportunity to make it so much better than that.
I do not propose that we attempt to change the ABs but I do suggest that the PCs could be modified to better channel that displayed talent to a more positive end.
The purpose for such a change is to advance the intellectual sophistication of our fellow citizens. I would suggest C-SPAN as an example that we might try to emulate. I do not suggest that we emulate any of the techniques or processes of C-SPAN but that we try to be guided by that same purpose. It seems to me that C-SPAN is a shining example of what can be accomplished by one small segment of a giant unenlightened medium.
We all seem to have a negative angel and a positive angel; our negative angel seems to be our default position. Just for a little while try to corral your negative angel. There will always be many opportunities to stomp on anything positive that might develop. If we start negative our ego will fight any attempt to flip-flop.
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SciFi Chick
Skeptic Friend
USA
99 Posts |
Posted - 07/30/2004 : 06:48:32 [Permalink]
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I wrote a big long post responding to each of your assertions, and then lost it, so I'll just write a little essay of my own to counteract the nonsense you spew in every possible direction.
I used to be a non-critically thinking fundamentalist Christian of the worst kind. I was filled with fear and hate masquerading as love for my fellow man. Due to a series of personal crises, I found myself on the Internet researching the specific church I was in to determine whether or not it was a dangerous cult.
What I discovered is that there are almost 30,000 Protestant denominations. Christians have figured out 30,000 different ways to disagree on the collection of writings known as the Bible.
Next, I wandered into one of these forums you so readily denigrate. It was a religious forum, chock full of free thinkers and atheists. They cut through crap faster than anything you've seen, and they weren't always nice about it. Heck. I got my feelings hurt just lurking. They said things that made my hair stand on end, and I would run away certain I was on the way to hell. But those thoughts stuck with me, like some kind of seed worming its way down into my consciousness, and the plant grew in the form of questions.
How could a loving God send people to hell? What about all of the other religions on the planet? How about all those wars started by Christians? What about all the contradictions in the Bible? On and on and on, until I could not ignore them anymore.
To make a long story short, I am now a critical thinker, a free thinker, an agnostic. No longer does education frighten me. Instead, it energizes me. I went to college later than most because of my religion, and I can proudly say that I will be graduating from the University of Virginia in two more years. From there, I will go on to graduate school, and I will teach others what I have learned.
I will also continue to go onto forums like this one, because you never know when someone is lurking nearby that will be able to hear what has been said to them many times before, because I say it in a different way.
What I won't do is sit back and let someone like you tear apart a good thing just because you can't understand it. |
"There is no 'I' in TEAM, but there is an 'M' and an 'E'." -Carson
"Rather fail with honor than succeed by fraud."
-Sophocles |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 07/30/2004 : 07:19:45 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by coberst
I occasionally surf the secular forums and it seems to me that a vast majority of the threads are either AB (adolescent banter) or PC (philosophically correct). Most of this majority is AB threads and probably ten percent are PC threads wherein the participants argue over scholastic esoterica.
I think we all know what adolescent banter is. Please define what you mean by philisophically correct. Is it related to when some forums have a specific agenda which is advanced?
quote:
There was once a popular TV commercial that displayed an old Indian man traveling down the nation's waterways teary eyed as he viewed the trash and effluents that were destroying a beautiful nature.
I felt somewhat like the Old Indian when I observed these forums because I think we waste a valuable opportunity to make it so much better than that.
I think the older memebrs of this forum who grew up in the US remember the Iron Eyes Cody anti-polution commercial. Your wish to appear the martyr is duely noted. I think it counter-productive, but that is your right.
Tell ya what, you remind me of this line.
"You know what I'm going to get you next Christmas, Mom? A big wooden cross, so that every time you feel unappreciated for your sacrifices, you can climb on up and nail yourself to it." -- Lloyd from the movie "The Ref"
quote:
I do not propose that we attempt to change the ABs but I do suggest that the PCs could be modified to better channel that displayed talent to a more positive end.
Are you suggesting that this behavior is happening here?
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Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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tomk80
SFN Regular
Netherlands
1278 Posts |
Posted - 07/30/2004 : 07:30:16 [Permalink]
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| I'm just curious what kinds of threads you define as AB or PC. Can you point them out on this forum? How is the ratio here? How is the ratio on other specific forums? I simply do not know kinds of posts you are aiming at, so can you state some examples? |
Tom
`Contrariwise,' continued Tweedledee, `if it was so, it might be; and if it were so, it would be; but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic.'
-Through the Looking Glass by Lewis Caroll- |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 07/30/2004 : 07:48:01 [Permalink]
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Hey Scifi Chick, I have a feeling I know you from another forum; Straight Dope, perhaps? I was on there for some time, but got bored a couple of years ago and left.
But whether or no, your above post was interesting. Wishing the best for your studies, and it is a pity that more folks are not equally studious. If so, ICR et al. would be financially bankrupt as well as morally and ethically.
Edited to add that I'm not really looking for an answer as to which forum, if any. Life is more fun with a little mystery, eh?  |
"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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| Edited by - filthy on 07/30/2004 07:52:41 |
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SciFi Chick
Skeptic Friend
USA
99 Posts |
Posted - 07/30/2004 : 07:53:34 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by filthy
Hey Scifi Chick, I have a feeling I know you from another forum; Straight Dope, perhaps? I was on there for some time, but got bored a couple of years ago and left.
I was never on Straight Dope. Have you ever been at the Compuserve Religion forum?
quote:
Originally posted by filthy
But whether or no, your above post was interesting. Wishing the best for your studies, and it is a pity that more folks are not equally studious. If so, ICR et al. would be financially bankrupt as well as morally and ethically.
Thanks. You're right about it being a pity. I'm hoping it's a temporary trend - like bell bottoms.  |
"There is no 'I' in TEAM, but there is an 'M' and an 'E'." -Carson
"Rather fail with honor than succeed by fraud."
-Sophocles |
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard
USA
4907 Posts |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 07/30/2004 : 08:20:42 [Permalink]
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quote:
Compuserve Religion
Nope. Perhaps it's one of those deja vu things that are almost always nonsense. Ah well.
But should we meet elsewhere, we'll have a background. 
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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SciFi Chick
Skeptic Friend
USA
99 Posts |
Posted - 07/30/2004 : 08:52:19 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Ricky
quote:
I went to college later than most because of my religion, and I can proudly say that I will be graduating from the University of Virginia in two more years.
The school up the road eh? I'll be going to Virginia Tech in 19 days and I've heard there is a huge rivalry between our two schools.
Congratulations! I think the rivalry is from a football angle.
quote:
Originally posted by filthy
Nope. Perhaps it's one of those deja vu things that are almost always nonsense. Ah well.
But should we meet elsewhere, we'll have a background.
Absolutely. I'm pretty much sticking with the moniker SciFi Chick, everywhere I go, so I'll be easy to spot.
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"There is no 'I' in TEAM, but there is an 'M' and an 'E'." -Carson
"Rather fail with honor than succeed by fraud."
-Sophocles |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 07/30/2004 : 08:59:07 [Permalink]
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And I shall be either filthy or Duvenoy.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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coberst
Skeptic Friend
182 Posts |
Posted - 07/30/2004 : 12:33:53 [Permalink]
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Dancer
I mean by PC those philosophical discussions that are very technical and are primarily for members of the profession. It seems to me that such talent might be better used in a way that will enlighten those of us who are not well educated in philosophy. Such talent could go a long way toward helping raise the general intellectual level of the society.
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coberst
Skeptic Friend
182 Posts |
Posted - 07/30/2004 : 12:43:38 [Permalink]
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Tomk80
You are correct. Most of what I have said in regards to the two classifications of threads does not apply to this forum. I see no evidence of threads that I described as AB and PC on this forum.
I apologize for making this post on this forum. If I could hide my face I would do so. This is very embarassing.
I shall try to remove this post if that is possible.
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 07/30/2004 : 12:51:04 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by coberst
Dancer
I mean by PC those philosophical discussions that are very technical and are primarily for members of the profession. It seems to me that such talent might be better used in a way that will enlighten those of us who are not well educated in philosophy. Such talent could go a long way toward helping raise the general intellectual level of the society.
So we're talking about concepts such as multi-person slopisms and heirarchy of needs.
Usually such discussions take place between two people who understand the concepts and I have noted that most will pause to answer questions posted by other users concerning the concepts even going so far as to suggest further reading.
People who choose philosophy as a profession nowadays tend to be teachers so they do try to raise the general intellectual level of the society. There just aren't the jobs available in the field. |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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coberst
Skeptic Friend
182 Posts |
Posted - 07/30/2004 : 14:43:21 [Permalink]
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Dancer
It seems to me that the citizens in many countries (US especially) do not receive an introduction to the fundamentals of reasoning and thus they are very susceptable to propaganda and nonsence. I think that a liberal democracy depends upon the understanding of the citizens. We cannot expect our democracy to run on cruise control. |
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sweet
New Member
6 Posts |
Posted - 07/30/2004 : 15:54:30 [Permalink]
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| Wow, Scifi Chick and Ricky, you are just a stone throw from me! At some point time and money willing I'd like to get my PhD in Philosphy at UVA |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 07/30/2004 : 19:08:34 [Permalink]
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| coberst, you are not introducing anyone to the fundamentals of reasoning by using incorrect premises and snap-judgements. If you wish to be the Johnny Appleseed of critical thinking, you cannot just say so, you have to live the part. Many people have claimed to be Jesus the Christ. How many were? |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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