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ConsequentAtheist
SFN Regular

641 Posts

Posted - 08/29/2004 :  05:20:24   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send ConsequentAtheist a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by beskeptigal

Arguing whether or not evolution is theory or law does not mean anything.
Exactly. Scientific law is a less than helpful concept.

For the philosophical naturalist, the rejection of supernaturalism is a case of "death by a thousand cuts." -- Barbara Forrest, Ph.D.
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard

USA
4907 Posts

Posted - 08/29/2004 :  08:10:33   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Ricky an AOL message Send Ricky a Private Message
quote:
The term theory in science doesn't mean questionable or weakly supported. It means an overall description of some process as opposed to evidence or data upon which the theory is developed and based. The level of supporting evidence is on a continuum from overwhelming to insufficient. In the case of evolutionary theory, there is overwhelming evidence supporting it. Arguing whether or not evolution is theory or law does not mean anything.


All we are doing is trying to just find the right label for it. Calling something different in no way changes the validity of it, I'm pretty sure we all understand that. We are just trying to figure out whether its a law or theory.

Why continue? Because we must. Because we have the call. Because it is nobler to fight for rationality without winning than to give up in the face of continued defeats. Because whatever true progress humanity makes is through the rationality of the occasional individual and because any one individual we may win for the cause may do more for humanity than a hundred thousand who hug their superstitions to their breast.
- Isaac Asimov
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Dude
SFN Die Hard

USA
6891 Posts

Posted - 08/29/2004 :  22:06:19   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Dude a Private Message
Natural selection might be considered a law. Evolution, as a whole, is far to complex (I think) to distill into a single law. When it's all said and done I think there might eventually be many laws contained within evolutionary theory.

Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson

"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin

Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard

USA
3834 Posts

Posted - 08/30/2004 :  01:14:38   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send beskeptigal a Private Message
Why re-invent the wheel?
quote:
theory

n 1: a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world; an organized system of accepted knowledge that applies in a variety of circumstances to explain a specific set of phenomena; "theories can incorporate facts and laws and tested hypotheses"; "true in fact and theory" 2: a tentative theory about the natural world; a concept that is not yet verified but that if true would explain certain facts or phenomena; "a scientific hypothesis that survives experimental testing becomes a scientific theory"; "he proposed a fresh theory of alkalis that later was accepted in chemical practices" [syn: hypothesis, possibility]


Source: WordNet ® 2.0, © 2003 Princeton University

hypothesis

n 1: a proposal intended to explain certain facts or observations 2: a tentative theory about the natural world; a concept that is not yet verified but that if true would explain certain facts or phenomena; "a scientific hypothesis that survives experimental testing becomes a scientific theory"; "he proposed a fresh theory of alkalis that later was accepted in chemical practices" [syn: possibility, theory] 3: a message expressing an opinion based on incomplete evidence [syn: guess, conjecture, supposition, surmise, surmisal, speculation]


Source: WordNet ® 2.0, © 2003 Princeton University


law

n ....3: a generalization that describes recurring facts or events in nature; "the laws of thermodynamics" [syn: law of nature] ...

Source: WordNet ® 2.0, © 2003 Princeton University
I believe the proper term is the theory of evolution. The problem is not with the label, it is the ignorance in the general public what the label means. Often, theory is equated with hypothesis.

The links provide multiple definitions by multiple sources. WordNet's seemed most concise for theory and hypothesis but wasn't as complete for describing 'law'.

Here are some other wordings from the same link:

quote:
A statement describing a relationship observed to be invariable between or among phenomena for all cases in which the specified conditions are met: the law of gravity.

Mathematics. A general principle or rule that is assumed or that has been proven to hold between expressions.

A formulation describing a relationship observed to be invariable between or among phenomena for all cases in which the specified conditions are met.

a statement of order or relation holding for certain phenomena that so far as is known is invariable under the given conditions
Laws are specific relationships rather than general principles. The theory of gravity, for example is the whole concept while the law of gravity is the specific formulas and relationships.

It was interesting that the definitions of law in all the sources did not always include scientific law.
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26024 Posts

Posted - 08/31/2004 :  07:51:02   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message
The July 2004 feedback for the Talk.Origins Archive addresses the issue of "laws" of evolution at the very top of the page.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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