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Maverick
Skeptic Friend
Sweden
385 Posts |
 Posted - 09/25/2004 : 13:37:35 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by verlch
It appears that there are 200 billion stars traveling around the center of the galaxy, yet we can't even see a planet on the closet stars. Many of these stars ars so big they can fit inside the orbit of mars. Or are bigger than the orbit of mars. All of this matter came together by chance, void of any design? Please. You think we are the only ones here? There are plenty of more worlds out there I think, including heaven. I think the whole universe revolves around God in heaven. It would be fitting for God who is bigger than life.
Depends on what you mean by "design".
Also, noone has ever said that "chance" alone could make everything we see. Well... except for creationists - they seem to love that word. You see, they believe it's the only option if their god doesn't exist. |
"Life is but a momentary glimpse of the wonder of this astonishing universe, and it is sad to see so many dreaming it away on spiritual fantasy." -- Carl Sagan |
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Siberia
SFN Addict
Brazil
2322 Posts |
Posted - 09/25/2004 : 14:28:27 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by verlch
It appears that there are 200 billion stars traveling around the center of the galaxy, yet we can't even see a planet on the closet stars.
No? And what are these? http://www.obspm.fr/encycl/encycl.html There are plenty of identified planets (or 'worlds') out there.
quote:
Many of these stars ars so big they can fit inside the orbit of mars. Or are bigger than the orbit of mars.
Yes. So what?
quote:
All of this matter came together by chance, void of any design? Please.
We don't know. Simple. Not once I've denied the existence of a Creator (although I'm not prone to have faith). Besides, this has nothing to do with evolution.
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You think we are the only ones here?
No. But you seemed to, calling it all 'realstate'.
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There are plenty of more worlds out there I think,
It's not what you think. There are.
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including heaven.
... or not.
quote:
I think the whole universe revolves around God in heaven. It would be fitting for God who is bigger than life.
So did the Dark Ages scholars. Which proves absolutely nothing (nor disproves, for all what matters). |
"Why are you afraid of something you're not even sure exists?"
- The Kovenant, Via Negativa
"People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs."
-- unknown
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verlch
SFN Regular
781 Posts |
Posted - 09/28/2004 : 22:35:47 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Siberia
quote:
Originally posted by verlch
It appears that there are 200 billion stars traveling around the center of the galaxy, yet we can't even see a planet on the closet stars.
No? And what are these? http://www.obspm.fr/encycl/encycl.html There are plenty of identified planets (or 'worlds') out there.
quote:
Many of these stars ars so big they can fit inside the orbit of mars. Or are bigger than the orbit of mars.
Yes. So what?
quote:
All of this matter came together by chance, void of any design? Please.
We don't know. Simple. Not once I've denied the existence of a Creator (although I'm not prone to have faith). Besides, this has nothing to do with evolution.
quote:
You think we are the only ones here?
No. But you seemed to, calling it all 'realstate'.
quote:
There are plenty of more worlds out there I think,
It's not what you think. There are.
quote:
including heaven.
... or not.
quote:
I think the whole universe revolves around God in heaven. It would be fitting for God who is bigger than life.
So did the Dark Ages scholars. Which proves absolutely nothing (nor disproves, for all what matters).
Dust your knees off Sabrina, cause some day we all will be bowing to our Maker! Mark my words. |
What came first the chicken or the egg?
How do plants exist without bugs in the soil, and bugs in the soil without plants producing oxygen?
There are no atheists in foxholes
Underlying the evolutionary theory is not just the classic "stuff" of science — conclusions arrived at through prolonged observation and experimentation. Evolution is first an atheistic, materialistic world view. In other words, the primary reason for its acceptance has little to do with the evidence for or against it. Evolution is accepted because men are atheists by faith and thus interpret the evidence to cor-respond to their naturalistic philosophy.
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. II Timothy 4:3,4
II Thess. 2:11 And for this cause God shall
send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
You can not see the 'wind', but you can see its effect!!!!
Evolution was caused by genetic mistakes at each stage?
Radical Evolution has 500 million years to find fossils of fictional drawings of (hard core)missing links, yet they find none.
We have not seen such moral darkness since the dark ages, coencides with
teaching evolution in schools. (Moral darkness)
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places, EPH 6:12.
"Thus, many scientists embracing naturalism find themselves in the seeming dilemma recently articulated by biochemist Franklin Harold: "We should reject, as a matter of principle, the substitution of intelligent design for the dialogue of chance and necessity [i.e., Darwinian evolution]; but we must concede that there are presently no detailed Darwinian accounts of the evolution of any biochemical system, only a variety of wishful speculations."
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 09/29/2004 : 02:07:34 [Permalink]
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"Dust your knees off Sabrina, cause some day we all will be bowing to our Maker! Mark my words."
Which maker and according to whom? :yawn:
Now I see that you are resortinng to well-worn tradition: "Scare the bejabbers out of everybody with fantastical threats," eh? The Bible and other religious texts are filled with that sort of blather. It's one of the best ways to keep the faithful in line, although it doesn't do much for the faithless; some of whom, these days anyway, find it mildly amusing.
Would you like to go back to burning heretics, verlch?
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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Siberia
SFN Addict
Brazil
2322 Posts |
Posted - 09/29/2004 : 08:20:33 [Permalink]
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quote:
Dust your knees off Sabrina, cause some day we all will be bowing to our Maker! Mark my words.
Consider them marked. :yawn: |
"Why are you afraid of something you're not even sure exists?"
- The Kovenant, Via Negativa
"People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs."
-- unknown
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verlch
SFN Regular
781 Posts |
Posted - 09/29/2004 : 11:54:58 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Siberia
quote:
Dust your knees off Sabrina, cause some day we all will be bowing to our Maker! Mark my words.
Consider them marked. :yawn:
?Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature shall be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ, which is in Jesus Christ our Lord.? (Rom. 8:35,37-39) |
What came first the chicken or the egg?
How do plants exist without bugs in the soil, and bugs in the soil without plants producing oxygen?
There are no atheists in foxholes
Underlying the evolutionary theory is not just the classic "stuff" of science — conclusions arrived at through prolonged observation and experimentation. Evolution is first an atheistic, materialistic world view. In other words, the primary reason for its acceptance has little to do with the evidence for or against it. Evolution is accepted because men are atheists by faith and thus interpret the evidence to cor-respond to their naturalistic philosophy.
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. II Timothy 4:3,4
II Thess. 2:11 And for this cause God shall
send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
You can not see the 'wind', but you can see its effect!!!!
Evolution was caused by genetic mistakes at each stage?
Radical Evolution has 500 million years to find fossils of fictional drawings of (hard core)missing links, yet they find none.
We have not seen such moral darkness since the dark ages, coencides with
teaching evolution in schools. (Moral darkness)
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places, EPH 6:12.
"Thus, many scientists embracing naturalism find themselves in the seeming dilemma recently articulated by biochemist Franklin Harold: "We should reject, as a matter of principle, the substitution of intelligent design for the dialogue of chance and necessity [i.e., Darwinian evolution]; but we must concede that there are presently no detailed Darwinian accounts of the evolution of any biochemical system, only a variety of wishful speculations."
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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard
3192 Posts |
Posted - 09/29/2004 : 12:07:13 [Permalink]
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1 Kg.22:23
"Now, therefore, behold, the Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets, and the Lord hath spoken evil concerning thee."
2 Chr.18:22
"Now therefore, behold, the Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets."
Jer.20:7
"O Lord, thou hast deceived me, and I was deceived."
Ezek.14:9
"And if a prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the Lord have deceived that prophet."
2 Th.2:11
"For this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie." |
"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History
"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini |
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verlch
SFN Regular
781 Posts |
Posted - 09/29/2004 : 12:12:36 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by BigPapaSmurf
1 Kg.22:23
"Now, therefore, behold, the Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets, and the Lord hath spoken evil concerning thee."
2 Chr.18:22
"Now therefore, behold, the Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets."
Jer.20:7
"O Lord, thou hast deceived me, and I was deceived."
Ezek.14:9
"And if a prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the Lord have deceived that prophet."
2 Th.2:11
"For this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie."
Look whats this? Rewritting the bible you dislike? It amazes me that you men are not impressed that the bible was written for 2000 years by hand, then in 1948 they found the dead sea scrolls and not one jot or tittle was missing over 2000 years, there is some divine inspiration! Which I'm sure most of you men are not impressed. |
What came first the chicken or the egg?
How do plants exist without bugs in the soil, and bugs in the soil without plants producing oxygen?
There are no atheists in foxholes
Underlying the evolutionary theory is not just the classic "stuff" of science — conclusions arrived at through prolonged observation and experimentation. Evolution is first an atheistic, materialistic world view. In other words, the primary reason for its acceptance has little to do with the evidence for or against it. Evolution is accepted because men are atheists by faith and thus interpret the evidence to cor-respond to their naturalistic philosophy.
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. II Timothy 4:3,4
II Thess. 2:11 And for this cause God shall
send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
You can not see the 'wind', but you can see its effect!!!!
Evolution was caused by genetic mistakes at each stage?
Radical Evolution has 500 million years to find fossils of fictional drawings of (hard core)missing links, yet they find none.
We have not seen such moral darkness since the dark ages, coencides with
teaching evolution in schools. (Moral darkness)
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places, EPH 6:12.
"Thus, many scientists embracing naturalism find themselves in the seeming dilemma recently articulated by biochemist Franklin Harold: "We should reject, as a matter of principle, the substitution of intelligent design for the dialogue of chance and necessity [i.e., Darwinian evolution]; but we must concede that there are presently no detailed Darwinian accounts of the evolution of any biochemical system, only a variety of wishful speculations."
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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard
3192 Posts |
Posted - 09/29/2004 : 12:24:20 [Permalink]
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| So is that the King James version of the Dead Sea Scrolls or the Lutheran? |
"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History
"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini |
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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard
3192 Posts |
Posted - 09/29/2004 : 13:12:33 [Permalink]
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Actually I didnt rewrite the Bible, Christians did, many many times.
My questions to you
1) Did you join judaism? Because their hebrew texts have little to do with the new testament.
2) Which version of the new testament is 'The right one'?
3) Why?
EZ 14:9,
New International Version
9 " 'And if the prophet is enticed to utter a prophecy, I the LORD have enticed that prophet, and I will stretch out my hand against him and destroy him from among my people Israel. 10 They will bear their guilt-the prophet will be as guilty as the one who consults him. 11 Then the people of Israel will no longer stray from me, nor will they defile themselves anymore with all their sins. They will be my people, and I will be their God, declares the Sovereign LORD .' "
New American Standard Bible
9 "But if the prophet is prevailed upon to speak a word, it is I, the LORD, who have prevailed upon that prophet, and I will stretch out My hand against him and (15) destroy him from among My people Israel.
The Message
9""If a prophet is deceived and tells these idolaters the lies they want to hear, I, GOD, get blamed for those lies. He won't get by with it. I'll grab him by the scruff of the neck and get him out of there.
Amplified Bible
9[The prophet has not been granted permission to give an answer to the hypocritical inquirer] but if the prophet does give the man the answer he desires [thus allowing himself to be a party to the inquirer's sin], I the Lord will see to it that the prophet is deceived in his answer, and I will stretch out My hand against him and will destroy him from the midst of My people Israel.
New Living Translation
9And if a prophet is deceived and gives a message anyway, it is because I, the LORD, have deceived that prophet. I will stand against such prophets and cut them off from the community of Israel.
King James
9 And if the prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the LORD have deceived that prophet, and I will stretch out my hand upon him, and will destroy him from the midst of my people Israel.
New Life Version
9But if the man who speaks in My name is given a false answer, it is I, the Lord, Who has caused him to speak. And I will put out My hand against him and destroy him from among My people Israel.
Holman Christian Standard Bible
9 "But if the prophet is deceived and speaks a message, it was I, the LORD, who deceived that prophet.[9] I will stretch out My hand against him and destroy him from among My people Israel.
English Standard Version
9And if the prophet is deceived and speaks a word, I, the LORD, have deceived that prophet, and I will stretch out my hand against him and will destroy him from the midst of my people Israel.
Contemporary English Version
9If a prophet gives a false message, I am the one who caused that prophet to lie. But I will still reject him and cut him off from my people
New King James
9"And if the prophet is induced to speak anything, I the LORD have induced that prophet, and I will stretch out My hand against him and destroy him from among My people Israel.
King james 21st century
9 And if the prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the LORD have deceived that prophet, and I will stretch out My hand upon him and will destroy him from the midst of My people Israel.
American standard
9 And if the prophet be deceived and speak a word, I, Jehovah, have deceived that prophet, and I will stretch out my hand upon him, and will destroy him from the midst of my people Israel.
Young's Literal
9 `And the prophet, when he is enticed, and hath spoken a word -- I, Jehovah, I have enticed that prophet, and have stretched out My hand against him, and have destroyed him from the midst of My people Israel.
Darby
9 And if the prophet be enticed and shall speak a word, I Jehovah have enticed that prophet; and I will stretch out my hand against him, and will destroy him from the midst of my people Israel.
New international readers
9 " ' "Suppose that prophet is stirred up to give a prophecy. Then I am the one who has stirred him up. And I will reach out my powerful hand against him. I will destroy him from among my people Israel.
New international
9 'And if the prophet is enticed to utter a prophecy, I the LORD have enticed that prophet, and I will stretch out my hand against him and destroy him from among my people Israel.
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"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History
"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini |
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verlch
SFN Regular
781 Posts |
Posted - 09/29/2004 : 13:21:59 [Permalink]
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The King James, I don't like all these translations. I think things get lost in translation. I want to know Hebrew so I can get the full way in which the scripture is written. I also would love to live in Israel!!!
My thoughts are to stick with the King James Version of the 1500's!!!! |
What came first the chicken or the egg?
How do plants exist without bugs in the soil, and bugs in the soil without plants producing oxygen?
There are no atheists in foxholes
Underlying the evolutionary theory is not just the classic "stuff" of science — conclusions arrived at through prolonged observation and experimentation. Evolution is first an atheistic, materialistic world view. In other words, the primary reason for its acceptance has little to do with the evidence for or against it. Evolution is accepted because men are atheists by faith and thus interpret the evidence to cor-respond to their naturalistic philosophy.
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. II Timothy 4:3,4
II Thess. 2:11 And for this cause God shall
send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
You can not see the 'wind', but you can see its effect!!!!
Evolution was caused by genetic mistakes at each stage?
Radical Evolution has 500 million years to find fossils of fictional drawings of (hard core)missing links, yet they find none.
We have not seen such moral darkness since the dark ages, coencides with
teaching evolution in schools. (Moral darkness)
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places, EPH 6:12.
"Thus, many scientists embracing naturalism find themselves in the seeming dilemma recently articulated by biochemist Franklin Harold: "We should reject, as a matter of principle, the substitution of intelligent design for the dialogue of chance and necessity [i.e., Darwinian evolution]; but we must concede that there are presently no detailed Darwinian accounts of the evolution of any biochemical system, only a variety of wishful speculations."
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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard
3192 Posts |
Posted - 09/29/2004 : 13:31:39 [Permalink]
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Why is that version more valid than any other? You are so hypocritical, saying I rewrite history while you worship that which you know was rewritten.
Funny how thats the version I orginally quoted when you claimed id been rewriting. |
"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History
"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini |
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Siberia
SFN Addict
Brazil
2322 Posts |
Posted - 09/29/2004 : 13:42:55 [Permalink]
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Lost in the translation. A lot of things have been lost in the translation - for example, they've discovered that according to the Hebraic version, not once does the Bible mention crossing the Red Sea. It says elsewhere... I don't know the english name, but that was something lost in the translation.
Of course, could be just a rumor, but I wonder how much was, oh, 'lost in the translation' or through time... |
"Why are you afraid of something you're not even sure exists?"
- The Kovenant, Via Negativa
"People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs."
-- unknown
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 09/29/2004 : 21:46:12 [Permalink]
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verlch wrote:quote:
My thoughts are to stick with the King James Version of the 1500's!!!!
You do know that King James was probably a homosexual, right? |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 09/29/2004 : 22:44:58 [Permalink]
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quote:
You do know that King James was probably a homosexual, right?
I was just gonna mention that.... hehe.
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So, basically, all those translations above are saying that god will force a prophet to lie (because he doesn't like whomever the prophet is about to speak to) and then either banish or kill the prophet.
That's funny. |
Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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