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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
 Posted - 11/03/2004 : 11:51:29 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by H. Humbert
quote:
Originally posted by Valiant Dancer
From information you sent to H. Humbert and reported by him 10/14/2004
"Oh, and another thing. Don't you hate it when your stocks take a dip and those stupid jerks on Wall Street (who you just know must be loaded) never offer to pay you out of their own pocket? Well PIPS will give you money even if their investments didn't earn it! Because of the ration of Company Investments versus Member Investments, (60% - 40%); the company really doesn't even have to make 2% everyday in order to pay us 2%. Awesome! Totally awesome! You get paid even if the company didn't earn enough to pay you! It's a win/win situation."
Your claim, Ace.
Actually, just the stuff in blue was from the promotional material. Any sections in black text are my comments. Thus, the original claim was:
"Because of the ration of Company Investments versus Member Investments, (60% - 40%); the company really doesn't even have to make 2% everyday in order to pay us 2%. Awesome!"
OK. But the main thrust of the arguement was that the plan paid 2% per day ROI. I was quoting it (in this case, I quoted too much of the statement) and it is his claim that the company returns 2% per day ROI. This, based on the plethora of mathematical modles supplied here by Dave W outstrips the GDP of the world in 5 years. Coupled with the PIPS website claim of low risk, (lapcus, I've quoted the website where it indicates low risk in an earlier post, please read it) makes it likely to be a questionable investment scheme. Combined with other markers make it a probable Ponzi class gifting enterprize.
lapcus also ignores that I was setting up a situation where I could get the least amount of ROI for my percentages so that I could compare it to the investment prospectuses I could find. Legitamate investment vechiles = 30% ROI annually. PIPS = 540% ROI annually.
I'm sure lapcus will dredge up the erroneous post I made earlier and frame it with your response to claim that I am inventing sources to appear intelligent. |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
| Edited by - Valiant Dancer on 11/03/2004 11:58:18 |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 11/03/2004 : 12:02:50 [Permalink]
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quote:
as far as what i said to filty..check out the awnsers yourself
put forth the prospectus- sorry i cant help you there, never really looked into that.
governing regulations- http://www.lofsa.gov.my/lofsa5/index.htm
"i think that his has changed recently...but i dont know for sure"
history- http://forum.pipsinc.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=6945 , and http://forum.pipsinc.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=879 (scroll to the bottom)
list of officers- http://forum.pipsinc.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=18978
Again Filhty said that this was ALL ads.
Do you really believe we're stupid enough to blindly take for granted the words on a forum? Hell, we don't even trust this one that far. We'll call each other on unsupported statments, in a heartbeat. Therefore, aproaching ad nauseium:
A prospectus.
A list of the company's officers.
The official regulations regarding investment of the country where the firm is based -- be specfic.
The company's history.
Official documants, not fluff, are what is required. Kindly produce them. Shit or get off the pot.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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Siberia
SFN Addict
Brazil
2322 Posts |
Posted - 11/03/2004 : 12:57:33 [Permalink]
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quote:
First of all, that that statement was in quotes, meaning I was parroting things you were saying. Secondly, Enron was a legitimate company that offered a legitimate service. It was its managment that became corrupt and ultimately ran Enron into the ground through mishandling of funds and shady accounting practices.
Not to forget, punishment for this sort of corruption is now predicted by law, and rules (Basileia 2) established to prevent this sort of thing from happening again.
Keep it comin', boys. It's greatly educational. |
"Why are you afraid of something you're not even sure exists?"
- The Kovenant, Via Negativa
"People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs."
-- unknown
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Incognitus
New Member
Portugal
4 Posts |
Posted - 11/03/2004 : 14:37:42 [Permalink]
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The 775% per annum are based DIRECTLY on the output of the official simulator, and actually compare only the initial investment (472.5 USD) to the cumulative withdrawable during the second year, using 100% reinvestment in the first year and 100% withdrawal in the second.
I also don't mention in my article (http://www.thinkfn.com/artigo.php?id=105) a further fallacy in PIPS.
It's simple, Bryan and all the supporters claim that most of the returns that go into paying PIPS don't even come from speculative invesments, they come from the 11 real "brick and mortar" companies.
It so happens that those companies are being created, starting up, investing, have plans, etc. They are all in a phase where they INVEST and CONSUME money, instead of throwing it OUT !!! And besides, PIPS is a loan, so why would the returns from these now capital-hundry companies be devoted to paying such a huge rate on a loan? If they were to be profitable, surely they could get money at 10% instead of 775%. |
"Nem tudo o que pode ser contado conta, e nem tudo o que conta pode ser contado.", Albert Einstein
Incognitus, www.thinkfn.com |
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Paul Mottley
New Member
1 Post |
Posted - 11/05/2004 : 18:33:28 [Permalink]
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proof (pr#363;f)
n.
The evidence or argument that compels the mind to accept an assertion as true.
The validation of a proposition by application of specified rules, as of induction or deduction, to assumptions, axioms, and sequentially derived conclusions.
A statement or argument used in such a validation.
Convincing or persuasive demonstration: was asked for proof of his identity; an employment history that was proof of her dependability.
The state of being convinced or persuaded by consideration of evidence.
Determination of the quality of something by testing; trial: put one's beliefs to the proof.
Law. The result or effect of evidence; the establishment or denial of a fact by evidence.
The alcoholic strength of a liquor, expressed by a number that is twice the percentage by volume of alcohol present.
Printing.
A trial sheet of printed material that is made to be checked and corrected. Also called proof sheet.
A trial impression of a plate, stone, or block taken at any of various stages in engraving.
A trial photographic print.
Any of a limited number of newly minted coins or medals struck as specimens and for collectors from a new die on a polished planchet.
Archaic. Proven impenetrability: “I was clothed in Armor of proof” (John Bunyan).
Just found this interesting !
Cheers
P. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
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Renae
SFN Regular
543 Posts |
Posted - 11/06/2004 : 10:18:03 [Permalink]
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Cripes, is this thread still going?
Lapcus, I don't appreciate insults from you. They're pretty funny, though, coming from someone who sends their hard-earned money to a black hole in Malaysia and sneers at those of us who work for a living.
If you are making money and you have nothing to gain by "converting" us, why are you still here arguing with us? Why are any of you PIPsters here?
BTW, Renae isn't my real name. Having experience with cyberstalkers, I don't use my real name on any board. "Renae" comes from the old song, "Walk Away Renee", a favorite of mine. |
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PIPS-PureInvestor
New Member
7 Posts |
Posted - 11/06/2004 : 13:04:45 [Permalink]
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Greetings,
Good question, why are some PIPSters here??? I stumbled onto it from a bloke who was interested in learning more, so he referred me here, so here I be. (g) Always nice to hear all opinions, for and against.
In reality, there is no real incentive to try and convert anyone, and as we all know, skeptics are steadfast, they never change their minds, right? (g)
Good Luck, Mike
http://PIPS-PureInvestor.com |
http://PIPS-PureInvestor.com |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 11/06/2004 : 13:52:12 [Permalink]
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`quote:
Originally posted by PIPS-PureInvestor
Greetings,
Good question, why are some PIPSters here??? I stumbled onto it from a bloke who was interested in learning more, so he referred me here, so here I be. (g) Always nice to hear all opinions, for and against.
In reality, there is no real incentive to try and convert anyone, and as we all know, skeptics are steadfast, they never change their minds, right? (g)
Good Luck, Mike
http://PIPS-PureInvestor.com
PIPS, ol' sport, we change our minds all the time, when the evidence demonstrates that previously we were off the mark. Unfortunatly, all that has been put forth on this topic is ancedotes and outright bullshit. Beyond a certain entertainment value, there's nothing. Y'all can't even come up with a lousey prospectus or direct us to where we can find one. You don't even know the investment laws of the country or your company's history.
Pig in a poke, m'man. Pig in a poke.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 11/06/2004 : 14:41:55 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by PIPS-PureInvestor
In reality, there is no real incentive to try and convert anyone, and as we all know, skeptics are steadfast, they never change their minds, right?
Time and time and time again the "incentive" for recruiting new members has been pointed out to you. Why you stubbornly keep insisting that no such motive exists is beyond comprehension.
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 11/06/2004 : 14:53:51 [Permalink]
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They sure put a lot of web sites up to recruit new members if there's no incentive to recruit.
quote:
Time and time and time again the "incentive" for recruiting new members has been pointed out to you. Why you stubbornly keep insisting that no such motive exists is beyond comprehension.
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I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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Incognitus
New Member
Portugal
4 Posts |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 11/07/2004 : 11:13:08 [Permalink]
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| Sounds like everything we skeptics have been saying. Thanks for the link, Incoqnitus. |
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Incognitus
New Member
Portugal
4 Posts |
Posted - 11/15/2004 : 15:52:41 [Permalink]
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www.thinkfn.com can now be read in english, just click on the little british flag on the top right corner.
I've updated the Unofficial FAQ on PIPS with some rather surprising facts on Bryan, too. |
"Nem tudo o que pode ser contado conta, e nem tudo o que conta pode ser contado.", Albert Einstein
Incognitus, www.thinkfn.com |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 11/15/2004 : 16:17:08 [Permalink]
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| Very well done. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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Topic Locked
