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ljbrs
SFN Regular
USA
842 Posts |
 Posted - 08/28/2001 : 19:03:24
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Oh, dear, oh, dear! What are we to do??? We are living in a quicksand universe, I tell you...
In the August 27 edition of Physical Review Letters, a team of astronomers and physicists, have given (by this time) evidence that the fine-structure constant has changed (.001) from what it was in the early universe to what it is today. This has been written up (in advance) in the 8/24/01 Science and in the 8/23/01 Nature. As I understand it, taken together, the speed of light, electron charge, and Planck's constant (a number in quantum mechanics) give the measure of the inherent strength of electromagnetic interactions, such as those which bind an electron to an atom. This *fine-structure constant* has changed by .001 since the early universe.
Naturally, this is going to be checked and, again, we have an anomaly which might not be going away.
I love these blockbusters which force astronomers and physicists to keep on their toes. There is no same ol', same ol' in science -- with the possible exception for those poor souls who want a static universe.
Now, do not lose any sleep over this, yet. We will hardly know the difference...
ljbrs  ZZZzzz...
Perfection Is a State of Growth...
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comradebillyboy
Skeptic Friend
USA
188 Posts |
Posted - 08/28/2001 : 19:14:47 [Permalink]
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quote:
Oh, dear, oh, dear! What are we to do??? We are living in a quicksand universe, I tell you...
In the August 27 edition of Physical Review Letters, a team of astronomers and physicists, have given (by this time) evidence that the fine-structure constant has changed (.001) from what it was in the early universe to what it is today
ljbrs
Perfection Is a State of Growth...
 oooh!oooooh!ooooooo! see the creations are right! proof positive that the speed of light was much greater 6000 yrs ago when god created the world. now will you admit the truth of genesis!!!!!!!!!!   
comrade billyboy |
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Boron10
Religion Moderator
USA
1266 Posts |
Posted - 08/28/2001 : 22:46:16 [Permalink]
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quote:
oooh!oooooh!ooooooo! see the creations are right! proof positive that the speed of light was much greater 6000 yrs ago when god created the world. now will you admit the truth of genesis!!!!!!!!!!
LOL Hmmm... now that you put it that way .... No.
I am afraid I'm not clever enough to come up with a good signature, eh? |
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Lisa
SFN Regular
USA
1223 Posts |
Posted - 08/28/2001 : 23:58:33 [Permalink]
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Will this affect air fares?
Lisa
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bestonnet_00
Skeptic Friend
Australia
358 Posts |
Posted - 08/29/2001 : 00:10:54 [Permalink]
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It wont affect air fares so you shouldn't worry about them getting cheaper.
Radioactive GM Crops.
Slightly above background.
Safe to eat.
But no activist would dare rip it out.
As they think it gives them cancer. |
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Chippewa
SFN Regular
USA
1496 Posts |
Posted - 08/29/2001 : 00:50:37 [Permalink]
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quote:
Will this affect air fares?
Lisa
I wouldn't be surprised! (-;
Hey, so the Universe was .001 slower 16 billion years ago? It's speeding up.
Watch as the loonies start claiming as with every new discovery that everything that came before it is now "wrong" and should be replaced by their "theory," which of course has no real equations and no proofs or experiments. yadah yadah yadah....
Chip
"I'd never join an organization that would have a man like me as a member." |
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bestonnet_00
Skeptic Friend
Australia
358 Posts |
Posted - 08/30/2001 : 00:35:48 [Permalink]
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I wonder if setterfield knows of this new discovery.
Radioactive GM Crops.
Slightly above background.
Safe to eat.
But no activist would dare rip it out.
As they think it gives them cancer. |
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ljbrs
SFN Regular
USA
842 Posts |
Posted - 08/30/2001 : 18:55:52 [Permalink]
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quote:
Hey, so the Universe was .001 slower 16 billion years ago? It's speeding up.
Watch as the loonies start claiming as with every new discovery that everything that came before it is now "wrong" and should be replaced by their "theory," which of course has no real equations and no proofs or experiments. yadah yadah yadah....
Chip
Well, the universe HAS been measured as speeding up (the Accelerating Universe). This has been measured over and over again over the past few years (using Type 1a Supernovae as *Standard Candles*). Actually, in this case, it is the Fine Structure Constant which has been measured as speeding up infinitesimaly (.001). Of course, other scientists must use other astronomical installations and come up with the same, or similar, conclusions or this will be simply another asterisk in the history of science (like cold fusion -- remember?)
ljbrs
Perfection Is a State of Growth... |
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Chippewa
SFN Regular
USA
1496 Posts |
Posted - 09/05/2001 : 15:31:44 [Permalink]
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quote:
"...other scientists must use other astronomical installations and come up with the same, or similar, conclusions or this will be simply another asterisk in the history of science (like cold fusion -- remember?")
Right! Or the "Wow! signal." And yes I remember cold fusion, pure bunk! (Except in my car of course. There it was simply a matter of d transposed over y on a subquantum level of x - parameters over histories x y2!) (But please don't tell DMV or the oil companies.) (-; Chip
"I'd never join an organization that would have a man like me as a member." |
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ljbrs
SFN Regular
USA
842 Posts |
Posted - 09/05/2001 : 17:31:39 [Permalink]
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quote:
[]oooh!oooooh!ooooooo![] see the creations are right! proof positive that the speed of light was much greater 6000 yrs ago when god created the world. now will you admit the truth of genesis!!!!!!!!!! [] [] []
Now, we do not want those sillies reading that. They might take it seriously and we would never hear the end of it! This site might become one gigantic revival site...
quote:
quote:
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"...other scientists must use other astronomical installations and come up with the same, or similar, conclusions or this will be simply another asterisk in the history of science (like cold fusion -- remember?")
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Right! Or the "Wow! signal." And yes I remember cold fusion, pure bunk! (Except in my car of course. There it was simply a matter of d transposed over y on a subquantum level of x - parameters over histories x y2!) (But please don't tell DMV or the oil companies.) (-; Chip
Love it! It has been too long since my calculus (received A's) to carry on a *conversation* with it. My mind is probably going to mush...
ljbrs
*Nothing is more damaging to a new truth than an old error.* Goethe |
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comradebillyboy
Skeptic Friend
USA
188 Posts |
Posted - 09/06/2001 : 14:45:47 [Permalink]
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but seriously,
what are the implications if this constant has changed? does it mean that the laws of physics are changable (not just our perception) over time? how does it affect our fundamental ideas about the nature of reality?
comrade billyboy |
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ljbrs
SFN Regular
USA
842 Posts |
Posted - 09/06/2001 : 19:37:37 [Permalink]
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quote:
but seriously,
what are the implications if this constant has changed? does it mean that the laws of physics are changable (not just our perception) over time? how does it affect our fundamental ideas about the nature of reality?
comrade billyboy
This study was eventually printed in the 27 August 2001 Physical Review Letters (Top Drawer site).
First, this is almost untestable, because it would take some time for other scientists to adequately test it.
According to NATURE, 23 August 2001, John Bahcall (Institute for Advanced Study in Princeton, New Jersey) "says that the complex analyses will make it difficult for another group to test the claims." John Barrow (a physicist at the University of Cambridge, England) "agrees: 'This is not the sort of thing that people will be able to do in the next few months,' he says."
In SCIENCE, 24 August 2001, Charles Seife wrote a somewhat longer article quoting a number of astrophysicists about it.
Both were great articles.
In the study of 72 distant quasars (quasi stellar objects) the difference when light was absorbed billions of years ago was shown to have been .001% smaller than it was more recently (now).
Do not expect confirmation soon. Studying that many quasars takes an inordinant amount of time.
I do not think that finding that the laws of physics change will demolish physics. The changes are probably due to some physical reason, which would not change the laws of physics at all. I understand it will make Superstring Theory more plausible. It will make physics more interesting -- perhaps...
Then again, using the style of Gertrude Stein (*A rose is a rose is a rose*, *There is no there, there*) it might be said that:
THERE IS NO NOW, NOW.
ljbrs 
*Nothing is more damaging to a new truth than an old error.* Goethe |
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