|
|
|
tkster
Skeptic Friend
USA
193 Posts |
 Posted - 11/25/2004 : 16:56:09 [Permalink]
|
quote:
Originally posted by Valiant Dancer
quote:
I'm an independant with Libertarian leanings. Do I count?
Okay sure.
[quote]I think for 2008, the Libertarian party should focus more on local elections with good candidates to build a grassroots effort. Right now, the Libertarians have not engaged the general public. They need to get their message out there. Of course, this will take mondo loads of cash.
I am hoping that we can get either two states, or about 5 percent of the popular vote. The trick is to get our name in the news, and there can't be a too close election with the Rep-Dem parties. The more people who know of us, the better off we'll be.
take care,
tk |
 |
|
|
PitS
New Member
USA
3 Posts |
Posted - 11/25/2004 : 22:00:39 [Permalink]
|
It has been said that if you continually vote for the "lesser of two evils" you necessarily keep getting evil.
Most Libertarians do not believe that all the party's ideals would make it into practice, but you have to aim high if the target is distant. Also, Libertarians have more local positions in the US than (I think) all other third parties combined (not counting "independents").
And as to getting noticed by the public, there are other problems facing them than lack of effort. For instance, is anyone here aware that the Libertarian and Green Party candidates were arrested and held for a few hours in October for crossing a police barricade in an effort to serve papers on the organization running the Presidential debates?
I searched far and wide and could barley find mention of it beyond the LP's own website. This suggests to my paranoid mind a less than unbiased media (be it left or right leaning)...
|
|
|
|
Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 11/26/2004 : 01:49:31 [Permalink]
|
quote:
Originally posted by PitS
It has been said that if you continually vote for the "lesser of two evils" you necessarily keep getting evil.
I think whoever said it is wrong. I've said this before:
"If you refuse to choose the lesser of two evils, someone else is goint to choose for you"
Wasn't that partly what happened in 2000? If Nader voters had put their votes on Gore, we wouldn't have gotten stuck with an asshole US president.
Voters that could have made a difference is not sitting on a pedistal claiming the moral high ground. But in my opinion, they have no right to bitch about the current president. By that, I'm not implying that tkster or PitS are doing that, but I've seen others. |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
|
|
|
Wendy
SFN Regular
USA
614 Posts |
Posted - 11/26/2004 : 08:13:13 [Permalink]
|
quote:
Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
Wasn't that partly what happened in 2000? If Nader voters had put their votes on Gore, we wouldn't have gotten stuck with an asshole US president.
Damn straight! |
Millions long for immortality who don't know what to do on a rainy afternoon.
-- Susan Ertz
|
|
|
|
Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 11/26/2004 : 08:39:36 [Permalink]
|
| Sorry, that's just ridiculous. Nader wasn't supposed to be campaigning for Gore. Gore lost his own election. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
|
|
|
|
Renae
SFN Regular
543 Posts |
Posted - 11/26/2004 : 09:29:21 [Permalink]
|
The problem isn't that Libertarians "need to get the message out there." It isn't about attention to the message: the problem is the message itself.
The Libertarian platform is wacked. It's goofy. It's nonsense. The only people I know who embrace it are victims of arrested development (at about age 14, I'd wager.) They like to be seen as renegades and contrarians and independents...but they come across as foolishly advocating policies that are profoundly harmful to America.
Until Libertarians realize how out-of-touch they are with reality, they'll keep spinning their wheels.
Libertarians don't seem to realize that no man is an island. We're all tied together; what we do as individuals effects one another. This is true in every sphere: economics, public health, the environment, religion, etc.
So keep spinning. Y'all will never get anywhere, so no worries from me. 
|
|
|
|
Siberia
SFN Addict
Brazil
2322 Posts |
Posted - 11/26/2004 : 11:36:00 [Permalink]
|
Ok, fine. I'm officialy curious and apparently I have no access to the Libertarian page Cuneiformist posted.
What's up with the Libbers? What are they up to? Foreigner as I am, I have no idea. I know nothing outside the typical two-party system, that's all that reaches us. I was shocked to see US has a Green Party (we have it, too). I thought it was exclusive brazillian insanity, heh. |
"Why are you afraid of something you're not even sure exists?"
- The Kovenant, Via Negativa
"People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs."
-- unknown
|
|
|
|
Renae
SFN Regular
543 Posts |
Posted - 11/26/2004 : 12:30:49 [Permalink]
|
Siberia, some of their nuttier positions, from the link C posted:
quote:
Juries
We favor all-volunteer juries and urge the assertion of the common-law right of juries to judge not only the facts but also the justice of the law.
The Right to Keep and Bear Arms
We affirm the right to keep and bear arms and oppose all laws at any level of government restricting, regulating, or requiring the ownership, manufacture, transfer, or sale of firearms or ammunition.
The Economy
Government intervention in the economy imperils both the personal freedom and the material prosperity of every American.
Taxation
All persons are entitled to keep the fruits of their labor. We oppose all government activity that consists of the forcible collection of money or goods from individuals in violation of their individual rights.
Education
We advocate the complete separation of education and State.
I'd comment but these people annoy me to no end. |
|
|
|
Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 11/26/2004 : 12:46:31 [Permalink]
|
quote:
Originally posted by Gorgo
Sorry, that's just ridiculous. Nader wasn't supposed to be campaigning for Gore. Gore lost his own election.
I think the point, Gorgo, was that Gore and Nader overlapped on a number of positions, from the environment to government regulation, and so on. So, in a close election the left-leaning people who voted for Nader ended up getting a President who was far to the right.
In hindsight, if Nader really wanted to change things he should have put as much support behind Gore as possible and then expect things in return. Witness Bush and the religious right: it's widely held that Ashcroft-- a far right whacko-- was picked for AG as a concession to the religious right. If Nader has convinced all the Greens out there to vote Gore in 2000, there would have been (perhaps) some pressure for Gore to do things in a greener fashion.
|
|
|
|
@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
Posted - 11/26/2004 : 12:58:00 [Permalink]
|
quote:
I think the point, Gorgo, was that Gore and Nader overlapped on a number of positions, from the environment to government regulation, and so on. So, in a close election the left-leaning people who voted for Nader ended up getting a President who was far to the right.
I have to agree with Gorgo on this one. If Gore had made more of an effort to get Nader backers to vote for him things would have been different. Gore tried to be too much of a centrist and lost the support of the left wing. This was not Nader's fault. This was Al Gore's fault. Al Gore decided the center was more important. Ralph Nader felt he had a responsibility to bring many Americans a representation that they felt they did not have. Ralph Nader is over-qualified for this role with his distinguished career serving the people. Al Gore is doing more now than he ever did in the past. I like that but what I hate is this feeling that you are voting for Democrats or Republicans. I don't wan to vote for blue or red. I want to vote for ideals and individual voting records.
@ |
Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law!
Sportsbettingacumen.com: The science of sports betting |
|
|
|
Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 11/26/2004 : 12:58:23 [Permalink]
|
quote:
Originally posted by Siberia
What's up with the Libbers? What are they up to? Foreigner as I am, I have no idea. I know nothing outside the typical two-party system, that's all that reaches us. I was shocked to see US has a Green Party (we have it, too). I thought it was exclusive brazillian insanity, heh.
Hey, Siberia. Sorry you couldn't link to the site. Anyhow, the general theme of the Libertarian Party is this: Less Government. Period. Thus on many social issues, they appear to be quite liberal. For instance, on our drug policy, they hold that: quote:
It's time to re-legalize drugs and let people take responsibility for themselves. Drug abuse is a tragedy and a sickness. Criminal laws only drive the problem underground and put money in the pockets of the criminal class. With drugs legal, compassionate people could do more to educate and rehabilitate drug users who seek help. Drugs should be legal. Individuals have the right to decide for themselves what to put in their bodies, so long as they take responsibility for their actions.
They are very much in favor of free speech to the point that they quote:
oppose any abridgment of the freedom of speech through government censorship, regulation or control of communications media, including, but not limited to, laws concerning obscenity, including "pornography", as we hold this to be an abridgment of liberty of expression.
Of course, on other issues they're very much to the right. They will always hold that the private sector can do a better job then the government. They also would argue that there's too much government regulation. Presumably, they think that market pressures will do the job of keeping businesses honest. |
|
|
|
Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 11/26/2004 : 13:01:17 [Permalink]
|
quote:
Originally posted by @tomic
[I don't wan to vote for blue or red. I want to vote for ideals and individual voting records.
Here here! But I worry that the RNC has become so skilled at marketing the candidate (rathern than promote ideas) that the DNC is going to have to siwtch to that tactic, leaving the discussion of [i]ideas[/]i be the wayside in favor of catchy phrases and media packaging.
We'll see, I guess... |
|
|
|
@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
Posted - 11/26/2004 : 13:17:13 [Permalink]
|
quote:
Here here! But I worry that the RNC has become so skilled at marketing the candidate (rathern than promote ideas) that the DNC is going to have to siwtch to that tactic, leaving the discussion of ideas be the wayside in favor of catchy phrases and media packaging.
The trouble is that the DNC does markets neither their ideas or candidates very well. All they seem to be doing is promoting the Democrat brand which is a piss poor replacement for actually standing for something. You can't say that about Nader.
@
|
Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law!
Sportsbettingacumen.com: The science of sports betting |
|
|
|
beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 11/27/2004 : 02:44:41 [Permalink]
|
| Since the thread is on Libertarians I don't think we should hijack it to whose fault it is Bush is in power. There are many many reasons and many people to blame, 50 million or so to be more exact. Nader and Baradnik or whatever his name is are only 2 of them. |
|
|
|
Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 11/27/2004 : 06:21:06 [Permalink]
|
| I voted Libertarian one year. Read Robert Ringer's book, what was it, "Looking out for #1" and a couple of others. Some good ideas. However, without government, which is just someone making up and enforcing some rules so that we can all get along, there is no private property, no commerce at all. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
|
|
|
 |
|
Topic Locked
