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Siberia
SFN Addict
Brazil
2322 Posts |
 Posted - 12/06/2004 : 13:57:21 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by verlch
Evolving from the 'Great Ape' what a crime. An absolute pedastal of mockery to me and my family! A testimate to depravity and coercion.
Consider this, V. Consider the universe in all its greatness, V - consider it. Consider how many stars are there, how many planets, how many molecules - I find that a miracle far greater than that of a God snapping its fingers and making a band of worshippers for his own great self, that a single molecule became a being as complex as a human, and who knows what else in this vast universe we dare wonder upon.
You diminish your own race by diminishing its intellect. |
"Why are you afraid of something you're not even sure exists?"
- The Kovenant, Via Negativa
"People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs."
-- unknown
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| Edited by - Siberia on 12/06/2004 13:59:04 |
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Paulos23
Skeptic Friend
USA
446 Posts |
Posted - 12/06/2004 : 14:12:37 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Siberia
quote:
Originally posted by verlch
Evolving from the 'Great Ape' what a crime. An absolute pedastal of mockery to me and my family! A testimate to depravity and coercion.
Consider this, V. Consider the universe in all its greatness, V - consider it. Consider how many stars are there, how many planets, how many molecules - I find that a miracle far greater than that of a God snapping its fingers and making a band of worshippers for his own great self, that a single molecule became a being as complex as a human, and who knows what else in this vast universe we dare wonder upon.
You diminish your own race by diminishing its intellect.
Here Here
Who knows how God made the universe, or if it just came about without God. I think scientists are getting a good idea of how it happened, but are a long way from saying what started it all. Besides, in my view it is better to have God make the universe over a long period of time, then to just snap his fingers and have it all apear. Makes him (or her) much more powerfull and patient for that. |
You can go wrong by being too skeptical as readily as by being too trusting. -- Robert A. Heinlein
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. -- Aldous Huxley |
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R.Wreck
SFN Regular
USA
1191 Posts |
Posted - 12/06/2004 : 15:52:05 [Permalink]
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quote:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Dave W.
Hey, verlch: if you can find one of these, or one of these, or especially one of these, you'll have demonstrated the "mass grave" theory beyond doubt.
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Or at least a fossil of something like that, right Dave! Too bad a fossil like that will not be found!
Therefore the "mass grave" of evolution will not be found. Way to go verlch! You finally got one right! (I know, I know, it was an accident). |
The foundation of morality is to . . . give up pretending to believe that for which there is no evidence, and repeating unintelligible propositions about things beyond the possibliities of knowledge.
T. H. Huxley
The Cattle Prod of Enlightened Compassion
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26024 Posts |
Posted - 12/06/2004 : 21:59:00 [Permalink]
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verlch wrote:quote:
Or at least a fossil of something like that, right Dave! Too bad a fossil like that will not be found!
Why not? The Bible describes more fantastic creatures than those pictured. Where are their fossils, verlch?
Even less of a stretch: the Bible tells us that in the time of Noah, grasshoppers had only four legs. Where are they or their fossilized remains? And when, in the last 4,500 years, did they gain the extra pair? Please, only cite chapter-and-verse for your answer here, I'd like to read it myself.
Similarly, at the same time, the Bible says that rabbits chewed cuds. When did this behaviour stop? Does the Bible answer that question? |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 12/06/2004 : 22:22:07 [Permalink]
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quote:
verlch:
Evolving from the 'Great Ape' what a crime. An absolute pedastal of mockery to me and my family!
We didn't evolve from the great apes. The great apes and we have a common ancestor.
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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verlch
SFN Regular
781 Posts |
Posted - 12/07/2004 : 01:08:59 [Permalink]
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http://www.workersforjesus.com/lev11-13.htm
Hmmm seems like rabbit is unclean....We all know how hard rules are to follow. |
What came first the chicken or the egg?
How do plants exist without bugs in the soil, and bugs in the soil without plants producing oxygen?
There are no atheists in foxholes
Underlying the evolutionary theory is not just the classic "stuff" of science — conclusions arrived at through prolonged observation and experimentation. Evolution is first an atheistic, materialistic world view. In other words, the primary reason for its acceptance has little to do with the evidence for or against it. Evolution is accepted because men are atheists by faith and thus interpret the evidence to cor-respond to their naturalistic philosophy.
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. II Timothy 4:3,4
II Thess. 2:11 And for this cause God shall
send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
You can not see the 'wind', but you can see its effect!!!!
Evolution was caused by genetic mistakes at each stage?
Radical Evolution has 500 million years to find fossils of fictional drawings of (hard core)missing links, yet they find none.
We have not seen such moral darkness since the dark ages, coencides with
teaching evolution in schools. (Moral darkness)
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places, EPH 6:12.
"Thus, many scientists embracing naturalism find themselves in the seeming dilemma recently articulated by biochemist Franklin Harold: "We should reject, as a matter of principle, the substitution of intelligent design for the dialogue of chance and necessity [i.e., Darwinian evolution]; but we must concede that there are presently no detailed Darwinian accounts of the evolution of any biochemical system, only a variety of wishful speculations."
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 12/07/2004 : 02:31:42 [Permalink]
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[Devil's advocate hat] I don't accept cud-chewing rabbits as a good argument agains Bibllical legend because they do indeed chew the cud, just in a different way from ungulates.
Lagomorphs (rabbits and conies) defecate pellets and these are of two types. One is simple feces and the other undigested food. The latter is quickly reingested and thus, the 'cud' is chewed. This is a very good system for a browser that lives on hard to digest fodder.
[/Devil's advocate hat]
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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ktesibios
SFN Regular
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 12/07/2004 : 22:39:10 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by filthy
Lagomorphs (rabbits and conies) defecate pellets and these are of two types. One is simple feces and the other undigested food. The latter is quickly reingested and thus, the 'cud' is chewed. This is a very good system for a browser that lives on hard to digest fodder.
[/Devil's advocate hat]
And it's a good system for an animal that has the symbiotic bacteria that break down the tough cellulose in the wrong part of in the gut to do a sufficient job on the first pass through.
If you want to check up on this, though, you've got to get up mighty early in the morning. Rabbits usually pass and consume these at times when humans aren't likely to be active. I lived with Angoras for a couple of years and never actually witnessed this behavior. I only know of it from the rabbit books belonging to my Angora-plucking ex-housemate.  |
"The Republican agenda is to turn the United States into a third-world shithole." -P.Z.Myers |
| Edited by - ktesibios on 12/07/2004 22:40:23 |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 12/08/2004 : 04:32:33 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by ktesibios
quote:
Originally posted by filthy
Lagomorphs (rabbits and conies) defecate pellets and these are of two types. One is simple feces and the other undigested food. The latter is quickly reingested and thus, the 'cud' is chewed. This is a very good system for a browser that lives on hard to digest fodder.
[/Devil's advocate hat]
And it's a good system for an animal that has the symbiotic bacteria that break down the tough cellulose in the wrong part of in the gut to do a sufficient job on the first pass through.
If you want to check up on this, though, you've got to get up mighty early in the morning. Rabbits usually pass and consume these at times when humans aren't likely to be active. I lived with Angoras for a couple of years and never actually witnessed this behavior. I only know of it from the rabbit books belonging to my Angora-plucking ex-housemate.
I first heard about it, years ago, from a friend who raised meat rabbits. During my next trip the the library, I looked it up. Sho 'nuff! They does do it!
Gives you a whole, new persprctive on the Easter Bunny.......
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26024 Posts |
Posted - 12/08/2004 : 08:25:34 [Permalink]
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| Well, aside from the fact that shit isn't cud, I figured the grasshopper question was much more pertinent. verlch, of course, made no cogent reply to either. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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tkster
Skeptic Friend
USA
193 Posts |
Posted - 12/08/2004 : 10:39:38 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by verlch
http://www.workersforjesus.com/lev11-13.htm
Hmmm seems like rabbit is unclean....We all know how hard rules are to follow.
You know who you remind me of? ForChrist. Yeah, the Christian troll at Live Wire. The similarities are impeccable.
Amazing, just amazing.
tk |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 12/08/2004 : 12:16:00 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.
Well, aside from the fact that shit isn't cud, I figured the grasshopper question was much more pertinent. verlch, of course, made no cogent reply to either.
But the same purpose is accomplished, is it not?
The grasshopper (and crickets, et al) question too, is interesting. These use the two very long and powerful, rear legs to hop. They are used for walking only as a sort of an afterthought, as it were, and are rather clumsy at it. Remove them, and the insect can still walk just fine. In fact, they are often sacrificed to predators. These legs also have a series of spikes down the 'shin' half, allowing them to be used for defense, as anyone who has been 'kicked' by a large 'hopper knows.
The argument can be made that these 'legs' are actually something else altogether, which is possibly how the writer(s) of the Bible might have viewed them.
But who can say for sure? Entomologists were rare in those days.  
Let us not go any further with this lest we confuse friend verlch.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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| Edited by - filthy on 12/08/2004 12:18:47 |
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verlch
SFN Regular
781 Posts |
Posted - 12/09/2004 : 01:24:39 [Permalink]
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| grasshopper what??? |
What came first the chicken or the egg?
How do plants exist without bugs in the soil, and bugs in the soil without plants producing oxygen?
There are no atheists in foxholes
Underlying the evolutionary theory is not just the classic "stuff" of science — conclusions arrived at through prolonged observation and experimentation. Evolution is first an atheistic, materialistic world view. In other words, the primary reason for its acceptance has little to do with the evidence for or against it. Evolution is accepted because men are atheists by faith and thus interpret the evidence to cor-respond to their naturalistic philosophy.
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. II Timothy 4:3,4
II Thess. 2:11 And for this cause God shall
send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
You can not see the 'wind', but you can see its effect!!!!
Evolution was caused by genetic mistakes at each stage?
Radical Evolution has 500 million years to find fossils of fictional drawings of (hard core)missing links, yet they find none.
We have not seen such moral darkness since the dark ages, coencides with
teaching evolution in schools. (Moral darkness)
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places, EPH 6:12.
"Thus, many scientists embracing naturalism find themselves in the seeming dilemma recently articulated by biochemist Franklin Harold: "We should reject, as a matter of principle, the substitution of intelligent design for the dialogue of chance and necessity [i.e., Darwinian evolution]; but we must concede that there are presently no detailed Darwinian accounts of the evolution of any biochemical system, only a variety of wishful speculations."
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 12/09/2004 : 03:38:40 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by verlch
grasshopper what???
Grasshopper Mouse!
quote:
As the name implies, one of their chief food items in season is grasshoppers. In addition, numerous other kinds of insects, scorpions, small mice, and a variety of plants contribute to their diet. Captives are especially fond of raw liver and newborn mice. Vernon Bailey and Charles Sperry report that animal matter makes up nearly 89% of their natural food; plant material comprises only 11%.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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