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Storm
SFN Regular
USA
708 Posts |
 Posted - 11/29/2004 : 07:54:11
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Time to start a new topic!!!
What is the difference between Belief and Knowledge 
Are they synonymous
Does Knowledge lead to Belief
Or vice versa
Check out this definition of Belief:
3 : conviction of the truth of some statement or the reality of some being or phenomenon especially when based on examination of evidence
Check out this definition of Knowledge:
2 a (1) : the fact or condition of knowing something with familiarity gained through experience or association (2) : acquaintance with or understanding of a science, art, or technique b (1) : the fact or condition of being aware of something (2) : the range of one's information or understanding <answered to the best of my knowledge> c : the circumstance or condition of apprehending truth or fact through reasoning
Interesting
Someone once told me to leave Belief to the Religious and Knowledge to the Scientists.
What do the Skeptics think
Storm 
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Storm |
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
 Posted - 11/29/2004 : 08:15:00 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Storm
Check out this definition of Belief:
3 : conviction of the truth of some statement or the reality of some being or phenomenon especially when based on examination of evidence
Ah, the wonders of the English language. In this case, Storm, you've picked a definition of belief that fits well in this sentence:
"I'm of the belief that Col. Mustard did it in the dining room with the wrench."
But over at Websters, there are two other definitions:
quote:
1) The mental act, condition, or habit of placing trust or confidence in another (e.g. My belief in you is as strong as ever.)
2) Mental acceptance of and conviction in the truth, actuality, or validity of something (e.g. His explanation of what happened defies belief.)
In both of these definitions, there is no requirement of evidence or proof. Conversely, I found six entries for knowledge:
quote:
1) The state or fact of knowing.
2) Familiarity, awareness, or understanding gained through experience or study.
3) The sum or range of what has been perceived, discovered, or learned.
4) Learning; erudition
5) Specific information about something.
6) Carnal knowledge.
So besides the last one, which has to do with sex, most of the definitions of knowledge have to do with evidence or proof. Of course, defintion 3 includes "preceived" meaning that, strictly speaking, one would have "knowledge" of the magical pink unicorn (peace be upon his horn) by simply perceiving that it exists.
I don't know if it's helpful, but I did want to show that it's possible to play with definitions to get a word to mean what you want... |
| Edited by - Cuneiformist on 11/29/2004 08:17:36 |
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Storm
SFN Regular
USA
708 Posts |
Posted - 11/29/2004 : 08:37:01 [Permalink]
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Helpful  Soewhat? But I am still not clear on your conviction as a skeptic the difference and....
Do you Know your conviction because you Believe it to be true
or
Do you Believe your conviction because you know it to be true
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Storm |
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 11/29/2004 : 09:11:17 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Storm
Helpful Soewhat? But I am still not clear on your conviction as a skeptic the difference and....
Do you Know your conviction because you Believe it to be true
or
Do you Believe your conviction because you know it to be true
Storm, I'm not sure I have any convictions!  |
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Storm
SFN Regular
USA
708 Posts |
Posted - 11/29/2004 : 12:18:10 [Permalink]
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So what do you have?
A whole bunch of knowledge that you don't believe?
A whole bunch of beliefs that you don't know?
Nothing? Something?
As far as the other questions I had
Is there a difference between Belief and Knowledge ?
What is the difference between
I believe in God
I know that God exists
Do I believe God exists because of all the knowledge I have acquired, tested, proved about God's existence
or Do I believe God Exists because I was raised in a Lutheran Home. Not a strict one but none the less a church influenced home.
I know my answer ? What do you think my answer would be? |
Storm |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 11/29/2004 : 12:23:39 [Permalink]
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Belief without knowledge is worthless. Belief inspired by knowledge at least has a sound foundation, but only if that knowledge is correct. Thus the argument becomes; who's version of the facts is the proper one?
I have neither belief nor faith, only an acceptence of fact and theory based upon testable evidence.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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Storm
SFN Regular
USA
708 Posts |
Posted - 11/29/2004 : 12:35:04 [Permalink]
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So have you any testable evidenve on God? If not have you tried or do you rely on others to guide your judgement. You don't want to be a true believer? I could have fell into that as I was being raised. My belief in God is not the same as when I was a child. I have aquired much more knowledge. I have satisfied many quests in my search. I cannot say though that my childhood influence of the Lutheran theolgy has not had some affect on my belief and my knowledge of God.
So then would I be predisposed to believing ?
Some Skeptics and scientists would think so |
Storm |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 11/29/2004 : 12:39:47 [Permalink]
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| I try not to believe, I try to think instead. Sometimes I fail, but the goal is to rid myself of beliefs. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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Storm
SFN Regular
USA
708 Posts |
Posted - 11/29/2004 : 12:47:37 [Permalink]
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| Why must you rid yourself of beliefs? Belief is the ultimated knowledge!!! |
Storm |
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Paulos23
Skeptic Friend
USA
446 Posts |
Posted - 11/29/2004 : 12:56:47 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Storm
Why must you rid yourself of beliefs? Belief is the ultimated knowledge!!!
Belief is something we think to be true, but it is not necessarly knowledge. Knowledge (to me) is based on experimentation and hard facts. Belief is was we want to be true, but it is not always based on Knowledge (experimentation and hard facts). When something you belief to be true is countered by knowledge and you pick the belief over knowledge, then you are in denial of how the world is. |
You can go wrong by being too skeptical as readily as by being too trusting. -- Robert A. Heinlein
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. -- Aldous Huxley |
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 11/29/2004 : 12:58:51 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Storm
So what do you have?
A whole bunch of knowledge that you don't believe?
A whole bunch of beliefs that you don't know?
Nothing? Something?
(The little winky-face () means that I'm kidding)
quote:
As far as the other questions I had
Is there a difference between Belief and Knowledge?
What is the difference between
I believe in God
I know that God exists
Here's the difference:
I say that there is a Magical Pink Unicorn, and that he lives in my closet. If I go check in the closet and he's there, then I know it. If I check in the closet and he's not there, then I know it. If I check in the closet and he's not there, but say that the reason he's not there is that he went to get a bite to eat but he'll be back later, and if you don't think so then you're just saying that because you don't want him to be there, then I just beleive it.
Maybe. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 11/29/2004 : 14:00:56 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Storm
So have you any testable evidenve on God? If not have you tried or do you rely on others to guide your judgement. You don't want to be a true believer? I could have fell into that as I was being raised. My belief in God is not the same as when I was a child. I have aquired much more knowledge. I have satisfied many quests in my search. I cannot say though that my childhood influence of the Lutheran theolgy has not had some affect on my belief and my knowledge of God.
So then would I be predisposed to believing ?
Some Skeptics and scientists would think so
It is not possible to test the existance of God. God(s) must be taken on faith and unsupported belief. If there were emperical evidence supporting God, then no faith would be required, would it? Belief would simply be a given -- indeed, it would be illogical not to believe.
I would love to be a true believer if there were something to believe in.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 11/29/2004 : 14:05:16 [Permalink]
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Beliefs are areas where I stopped thinking.
quote:
Originally posted by Storm
Why must you rid yourself of beliefs? Belief is the ultimated knowledge!!!
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I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 11/29/2004 : 19:21:35 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Storm
What is the difference between
I believe in God
an assumption of God's existance without evidense.
quote:
... I know that God exists
A delusion.
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Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 11/29/2004 : 20:04:11 [Permalink]
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Storm wrote:quote:
Belief is the ultimated knowledge!!!
I believe that I will keep getting paychecks even if I stop doing my job. That's not knowledge, it's stupidity. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Storm
SFN Regular
USA
708 Posts |
Posted - 11/30/2004 : 05:48:43 [Permalink]
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Why am I in a delusion because I Believe in God. Wjo says God can not be measured. Let us not mix up Faith and Belief. No one said I had Faith in god. Just a belief. and it's is through evidence of my own that I believe. One thing I never do is just Believe.
If that was the case I would be believing you bunch and the shit you speew Yes that is a Joke But seriously is belief then just for the religious ? Filthy. there is much to believe in you just have to open yourself up to it. Have you read any books and have you done any research to make you come to a conclusion on not believing?
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Storm |
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