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Ricky
SFN Die Hard
USA
4907 Posts |
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Storm
SFN Regular
USA
708 Posts |
 Posted - 11/30/2004 : 08:56:24 [Permalink]
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Storm |
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard
USA
4907 Posts |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 11/30/2004 : 09:39:05 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Storm
Why am I in a delusion because I Believe in God.
Ah, but that's not what I said. I said knowing God exist is a delusion.
quote:
Who says God can not be measured.
Most religious do. Certainly Christians anyway. I was taught in Pentacostal Church that God can not be measured.
quote:
Let us not mix up Faith and Belief.
Right, let's not. However, please think twice before you start playing with different definitions of words. Obfuscating your point by randomly switching between definitions will work detrimental to communicating ideas.
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Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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Storm
SFN Regular
USA
708 Posts |
Posted - 11/30/2004 : 10:15:52 [Permalink]
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Let me refrain that
I Know God Exists
What do you mean by playing with different definitions?
I said I know God Exists but it does not mean I have Faith
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Storm |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 11/30/2004 : 10:32:02 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Storm
Let me refrain that
I Know God Exists
What do you mean by playing with different definitions?
I said I know God Exists but it does not mean I have Faith
Storm, you can 'know' that god exists only through faith. There is no evidence in support of His existance, therefore your 'belief' is founded, blindly, upon that faith.
If you find this to be hard sayin's, well, sorry, but that's the way it is.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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Storm
SFN Regular
USA
708 Posts |
Posted - 11/30/2004 : 13:31:04 [Permalink]
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Whoever said God was a He? Not me MaybeI should say Goddess. Maybe not |
Storm |
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Siberia
SFN Addict
Brazil
2322 Posts |
Posted - 11/30/2004 : 13:36:55 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Storm
Whoever said God was a He? Not me MaybeI should say Goddess. Maybe not
Indeed, indeed. But as long as there's no unambiguous evidence, there's no proof. As long as there's no proof, there's no certainty. As long as there's no certainty, belief in one thing or another is just a matter of opinion and thus, not realiable as the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. So, you may believe whatever. Reality simply won't care. |
"Why are you afraid of something you're not even sure exists?"
- The Kovenant, Via Negativa
"People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs."
-- unknown
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 11/30/2004 : 14:23:50 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Storm
Whoever said God was a He? Not me MaybeI should say Goddess. Maybe not
God is commonly refered to as male. Perhaps a more accurate, or at least more reasonable reference would be, 'It.' Satan too, falls into this catagory. The same is true in the Muslim and Jewish faiths. A tad chauvenistic, some would say.
I said 'His' simply bacause I have no desire to to piss off Christians, at the moment. A lot of them are a little touchy over just this sort of trivia.
But, we are picking nits.
So, I wonder: you profess a 'belief' in a deity that's existence cannot be either proven nor debunked, yet you say that you have no faith in it. I find this to be a contradiction, as something beyond the boundries of proofs requires faith to sustain belief.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Storm
SFN Regular
USA
708 Posts |
Posted - 11/30/2004 : 14:30:08 [Permalink]
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| So Belief and Faith are synonymous? Why is that I can only know God exists through faith. Claude Bernard founder of physiology, wrote that everything purposeful in scientific thinking begins with feeling |
Storm |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 11/30/2004 : 15:44:44 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Storm
So Belief and Faith are synonymous? Why is that I can only know God exists through faith. Claude Bernard founder of physiology, wrote that everything purposeful in scientific thinking begins with feeling
Yes.... Mr. Bernard is correct.
Every scientific discovery began with some varition on the question of, "I wonder...."
But from there, query and investigation, and experimentation either proved the thought right or wrong, or takes the whole thing in an unforseen direction. I might say, "I wonder about God," but beyond the asking and reading blatently biased texts (on both sides), I can carry out no investigation to settle the matter one way or another. Therefore, I must establish any belief in God purely on the faith that such a being exists.
Faith and belief are not the same, but one often supports the other.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 11/30/2004 : 16:55:25 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Storm
So Belief and Faith are synonymous? Why is that I can only know God exists through faith. Claude Bernard founder of physiology, wrote that everything purposeful in scientific thinking begins with feeling
Yes, science begins with feeling. Religious faith begins and ends with feeling.
One cannot "know" god exists. To make that claim is to be wrong.
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
| Edited by - H. Humbert on 11/30/2004 16:56:05 |
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Storm
SFN Regular
USA
708 Posts |
Posted - 11/30/2004 : 16:57:54 [Permalink]
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Blah Blah Blah Actually a very interesting thought indeed. Not
i really just wanted to post something to see if my picture loads up. Still H. an interesting thought |
Storm |
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R.Wreck
SFN Regular
USA
1191 Posts |
Posted - 11/30/2004 : 18:36:35 [Permalink]
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I would characterize the difference between knowledge, belief, and faith by the following examples:
Knowledge:
"I know that water at atmospheric pressure at sea level will boil at 100C."
I know this because I have verified it myself, repeatedly. Many others have also verified this to the point where it can be accepted as fact. You could even say that it would be foolish not to accept this statement as true.
Belief:
"If I am sick I believe that my doctor can help me."
I have gone to the doctor before, and he has helped. He is trained in the medical profession, and as far as I know is competent at it. There is some small chance, however, that the doctor won't help. Maybe this time he will misdiagnose. Maybe he will diagnose correctly, but the treatment he prescribes doesn't work for everyone, and won't work for me. Maybe what I have is incurable. So I have a reasonable expectation that medical help is available, but I can't be sure. I can't know. But I believe that the doctor will help, otherwise I wouldn't waste my time and money.
Faith:
"I have faith that after I die, my soul will go to heaven."
I have no evidence to support the assertion that there is such a thing as a soul which survives bodily death. I have no evidence that there is such a place as heaven, or what the entry requirements are. If I accept this statement as true, it must be based on faith due to the complete lack of evidence to support it.
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The foundation of morality is to . . . give up pretending to believe that for which there is no evidence, and repeating unintelligible propositions about things beyond the possibliities of knowledge.
T. H. Huxley
The Cattle Prod of Enlightened Compassion
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
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