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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
 Posted - 12/12/2004 : 01:52:18 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Doomar
This book, however, is not easily understood and simply posessing a good intellect will not bring understanding or wisdom to light in this book. Faith is vital with trust, belief, obedience. How can anyone rebelling against the teachings of God and Christ, or rejecting them, think that they can get a handle on everything God is trying to teach men in the Bible?
In other words, you can't understand the OT unless you go in with the intent to sugarcoat it. Merely taking it at face value would make any man lose his faith.
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
| Edited by - H. Humbert on 12/12/2004 01:53:24 |
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verlch
SFN Regular
781 Posts |
Posted - 12/12/2004 : 02:44:54 [Permalink]
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| I think alot of texts are taken out of context. God hates wickedness and he isn't PC about letting us know what punishment is. I don't think God needs to ask permission to anybody to exact judgement early! |
What came first the chicken or the egg?
How do plants exist without bugs in the soil, and bugs in the soil without plants producing oxygen?
There are no atheists in foxholes
Underlying the evolutionary theory is not just the classic "stuff" of science — conclusions arrived at through prolonged observation and experimentation. Evolution is first an atheistic, materialistic world view. In other words, the primary reason for its acceptance has little to do with the evidence for or against it. Evolution is accepted because men are atheists by faith and thus interpret the evidence to cor-respond to their naturalistic philosophy.
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. II Timothy 4:3,4
II Thess. 2:11 And for this cause God shall
send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
You can not see the 'wind', but you can see its effect!!!!
Evolution was caused by genetic mistakes at each stage?
Radical Evolution has 500 million years to find fossils of fictional drawings of (hard core)missing links, yet they find none.
We have not seen such moral darkness since the dark ages, coencides with
teaching evolution in schools. (Moral darkness)
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places, EPH 6:12.
"Thus, many scientists embracing naturalism find themselves in the seeming dilemma recently articulated by biochemist Franklin Harold: "We should reject, as a matter of principle, the substitution of intelligent design for the dialogue of chance and necessity [i.e., Darwinian evolution]; but we must concede that there are presently no detailed Darwinian accounts of the evolution of any biochemical system, only a variety of wishful speculations."
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Doomar
SFN Regular
USA
714 Posts |
Posted - 12/12/2004 : 11:24:16 [Permalink]
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Well, that kills this thread. Why did you even make the attempt at educating the atheists here when you believe them to be incapable of understanding? What the hell is the point of missionary work in general?
Way to shoot yourself in the foot.
There is a difference between trying to understand and trying to slam. One is a sincere attempt and the other just mockery. If a person is without faith looking into the Bible and trying to come up with some answers as to why God did some things he did, their attitude will not be antagonistic or condescending. If this thread just becomes a place for people to slam anything God, you are right, it is over. |
Mark 10:27 (NKJV) 27But Jesus looked at them and said, “With men it is impossible, but not with God; for with God all things are possible.”
www.pastorsb.com.htm |
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gtpooh
New Member
USA
15 Posts |
Posted - 12/12/2004 : 11:31:56 [Permalink]
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Just my two cents, but as I understand it, LORD, as opposed to Lord, is used to represent the mythical character Yahweh, or Jehovah. As to why he does bad things, hey all those gods were nasty hypocritical bastards. :) This particular misogenist, racist petty desert god with an ego problem is just one of the nastier ones.
Of course, I vote for medicating anyone who follows one of the three religions that crawled out of the fetid loins of the Middle East. |
Gwenny
Sex is not the answer. Sex is the question. YES, is the answer! |
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moakley
SFN Regular
USA
1888 Posts |
Posted - 12/12/2004 : 14:04:32 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dude
quote:
It seems unrighteous to us for God to have the children killed, too. But God is not unrighteous, so we simply don't understand it right off.
What's to understand? Your "the LORD" kills children.
Have you always been insane?
Killing children is wrong. If your god does it, then your god is an evil god. If you worship a god who commits evil acts, then you are evil.
To say "god did it, therefore it's ok" is possibly the most moronic thing I have ever heard.
Are you actually processing the garbage you're souting? Are you aware of the fact that you are condoning the murder of children?
Clearly, if the Christian God commands the killing of children, then it is a good and righteous act. By this same standard, if you are a fine Christian woman and God tells you to kill your five children, then by killing your five children you would be performing a good and righteous act.
Is this what you are saying, Doomar? If it is then we have a serious violation of god's rigtheousness taking place in Texas. |
Life is good
Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. -Anonymous |
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moakley
SFN Regular
USA
1888 Posts |
Posted - 12/12/2004 : 14:52:47 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Doomar
Well, that kills this thread. Why did you even make the attempt at educating the atheists here when you believe them to be incapable of understanding? What the hell is the point of missionary work in general?
Way to shoot yourself in the foot.
There is a difference between trying to understand and trying to slam. One is a sincere attempt and the other just mockery. If a person is without faith looking into the Bible and trying to come up with some answers as to why God did some things he did, their attitude will not be antagonistic or condescending. If this thread just becomes a place for people to slam anything God, you are right, it is over.
faith is the operative word here. You are asking us to give god a pass for the attrocious things it did or commanded because of his god status. For the sake of this thread you were given a pass that god and the devil actually exist. Now you are asking us to be inconsistent in how we approach and evaluate assertions. Faith is not a good foundation on which to build understanding and knowledge, no matter the subject. The utilization of faith, and faith alone, in evaluating the merits of any assertion eliminates the need for the brain we were created with |
Life is good
Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. -Anonymous |
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verlch
SFN Regular
781 Posts |
Posted - 12/12/2004 : 15:35:16 [Permalink]
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[quote]Originally posted by Doomar
Didn't god create the Amalekites also? Why did he allow this situation to fester for so long?
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Well I believe when Lot was alone with his daughters they thought that they where the only ones left in the world. So they got Lot drunk, slept with him and had babies, both daughters got their father drunk and they had babies that became thorns in Israels side!
Verlch
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He starts off reviving the earth, that a null and void. And creating the stars. Then he places man on the earth. He calls Jesus His only begotten Son and He creates the angels. From what I read in the bible God loves rightousness and despises wickedness. Also this wasn't the plan for the human race to have to taste death!
Nowhere in the bible do you find God taking out His wrath on the rightous unless they where wicked. When Moses was getting the ten commandments on Mt. Sinani, the ten commandments where written by the finger of God, he came down and the Israelites where worshipping a golden image and engaging in wild sex. Even though these where Gods people He still caused the earth to open up and swallow the unjust. The moral of the story is you can do as you please, although you may be provoking the only uncreated being in the universe to anger against you. That anger may turn to wrath and the earth might open up and swallow any one of us.
In the bible God usually warns before he stricts out His judgement on living flesh. Sodom and Gomorrah are a fine example!
http://www.bibleplus.org/discoveries/sodomfound.htm
33The LORD replied to Moses, "Whoever has sinned against me I will blot out of my book. 34Now go, lead the people to the place I spoke of, and my angel will go before you. However, when the time comes for me to punish, I will punish them for their sin." 35And the LORD struck the people with a plague because of what they did with the calf Aaron had made.
Titus 2:3-5
Likewise, teach the older women to be reverent in the way they live, not to be slanderers or addicted to much wine, but to teach what is good. Then they can train the younger women to love their husbands and children, to be self-controlled and pure, to be busy at home, to be kind, and to be subject to their husbands, so that no one will malign the word of God.
That's for the ladies..
Jeremiah 1:5 Before I formed you in the womb I knew you; Before you were born I sanctified you;
Psalm 139:13-16 For you have formed my inward parts; You have covered me in my mother's womb. I will praise You, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made; Marvelous are Your works, And that my soul knows very well. My frame was not hidden from You, When I was made in secret and skillfully wrought in the lowest parts of the earth. Your eyes saw my substance, being yet unformed. And in Your book they all were written, the days fashioned for me, when as yet there were none of them.
John 16:21 A woman, when she is in labor, has sorrow because her hour has come; but as soon as she has given birth to the child, she no longer remembers the anguish, for joy that a human being has been born into the world.
Proverbs 3:5-6 Trust in the Lord with all your heart, And lean not on your own understanding; In all your ways acknowledge Him, And He shall direct your paths.
Philippians 3:5 Circumcised the eight day,
God says to circumcise on the eigth day of a man child. It just so happens that on the 8th day the platelets work really well if not the best ever to stop a man childs bleeding!
21: And Isaac intreated the LORD for his wife, because she was barren: and the LORD was intreated of him, and Rebekah his wife conceived.
22: And the children struggled together within her; and she said, If it be so, why am I thus? And she went to inquire of the LORD.
23: And the LORD said unto her, Two nations are in thy womb, and two manner of people shall be separated from thy bowels; and the one people shall be stronger than the other people; and the elder shall serve the younger.
24: And when her days to be delivered were fulfilled, behold, there were twins in her womb.
25: And the first came out red, all over like an hairy garment; and they called his name Esau.
26: And after that came his brother out, and his hand took hold on Esau's heel; and his name was called Jacob: and Isaac was threescore years old when she bare them.
Right here notice how God says two nations are in your womb! Right here she says the children struggled within her. The fathers of Islam and Judism are battling in the womb of their mother! Esau represtens the Arab world and Jacob Israel! Wow, they are even fighting in the womb! It also tells you God calls children a child in the womb. Thus making them a living entity, therefore abortion is a crime!
31: And Jacob said, Sell me this day thy birthright.
32: And Esau said, Behold, I am at the point to die: and what profit shall this birthright do to me?
33: And Jacob said, Swear to me this day; and he sware unto him: and he sold his birthright unto Jacob.
34: Then Jacob gave Esau bread and pottage of lentiles; and he did eat and drink, and rose up, and went his way: thus Esau despised his birthright.
Esau sold the right to the land of Israel for his desendents for a bowl of lentiles and bread!
32: And it came to pass the same day, that Isaac's servants came, and told him concerning the well which they had digged, and said unto him, We have found water.
33: And he called it Shebah: therefore the name of the city is Beer-sheba unto this day.
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsourc.../Beersheba.html
That city is still alive and well today! For awhile it was kinda small but today a city of 130,000!
All in all I don't know what to tell you Biomech. The bible says we are naked and clothed ourselves, like I said before we are clothed today. We have dominion over the earth and today humans still have dominion. Bible says don't steal and if you steal you will be punished more than you stole. Also the reason animals fear us is because of sin.
Exodus
20:15 Thou shalt not steal.
The police don't like us breaking that commandment either!
http://home.ntelos.net/~misanton/ebctract.html
Exodus
22:22 Ye shall not afflict any widow, or fatherless child.
God has compassion on the widows and those without fathers!
12: Yea, the darkness hideth not from thee; but the night shineth as the day: the darkness and the light are both alike to thee.
13: For thou hast possessed my reins: thou hast covered me in my mother's womb.
14: I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made: marvellous are thy works; and that my soul knoweth right well.
15: My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth.
16: Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all my members were written, which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them.
17: How precious also are thy thoughts unto me, O God! how great is the sum of them!
18: If I should count them, they are more in number than the sand: when I awake, I am still with thee.
19: Surely thou wilt slay the wicked, O God: depart from me therefore, ye bloody men.
20: For they speak against thee wickedly, and thine enemies take thy name in vain.
Sure the book was written by men, but it was inspired of by the Spirt of God!
You think something as beutiful as the figure of a woman was made by chance? That was by design my man! How would you explain the evolution of a male and female of the species? A fish doesn't even mate like a human or a mon |
What came first the chicken or the egg?
How do plants exist without bugs in the soil, and bugs in the soil without plants producing oxygen?
There are no atheists in foxholes
Underlying the evolutionary theory is not just the classic "stuff" of science — conclusions arrived at through prolonged observation and experimentation. Evolution is first an atheistic, materialistic world view. In other words, the primary reason for its acceptance has little to do with the evidence for or against it. Evolution is accepted because men are atheists by faith and thus interpret the evidence to cor-respond to their naturalistic philosophy.
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. II Timothy 4:3,4
II Thess. 2:11 And for this cause God shall
send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
You can not see the 'wind', but you can see its effect!!!!
Evolution was caused by genetic mistakes at each stage?
Radical Evolution has 500 million years to find fossils of fictional drawings of (hard core)missing links, yet they find none.
We have not seen such moral darkness since the dark ages, coencides with
teaching evolution in schools. (Moral darkness)
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places, EPH 6:12.
"Thus, many scientists embracing naturalism find themselves in the seeming dilemma recently articulated by biochemist Franklin Harold: "We should reject, as a matter of principle, the substitution of intelligent design for the dialogue of chance and necessity [i.e., Darwinian evolution]; but we must concede that there are presently no detailed Darwinian accounts of the evolution of any biochemical system, only a variety of wishful speculations."
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the_ignored
SFN Addict
2562 Posts |
Posted - 12/12/2004 : 16:31:56 [Permalink]
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| I think that this may sum up some of the objections about god's moral character here. |
>From: enuffenuff@fastmail.fm
(excerpt follows):
> I'm looking to teach these two bastards a lesson they'll never forget.
> Personal visit by mates of mine. No violence, just a wee little chat.
>
> **** has also committed more crimes than you can count with his
> incitement of hatred against a religion. That law came in about 2007
> much to ****'s ignorance. That is fact and his writing will become well
> know as well as him becoming a publicly known icon of hatred.
>
> Good luck with that fuckwit. And Reynold, fucking run, and don't stop.
> Disappear would be best as it was you who dared to attack me on my
> illness knowing nothing of the cause. You disgust me and you are top of
> the list boy. Again, no violence. Just regular reminders of who's there
> and visits to see you are behaving. Nothing scary in reality. But I'd
> still disappear if I was you.
What brought that on? this. Original posting here.
Another example of this guy's lunacy here. |
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Doomar
SFN Regular
USA
714 Posts |
Posted - 12/12/2004 : 17:42:25 [Permalink]
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Tkster said, Now, to prove God in general changes
God does change according to men. He answer's men's prayers. In Ninevah, God intended to destroy the city, but gave them the opportunity to repent of their evil ways. The people responded to Jonah's preaching and humbled themselves, from the ruler to the beasts. God saw their reaction and changed His mind, deciding not to destroy them. This mercy is part of His unchanging nature. He responds to the humble soul. |
Mark 10:27 (NKJV) 27But Jesus looked at them and said, “With men it is impossible, but not with God; for with God all things are possible.”
www.pastorsb.com.htm |
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Doomar
SFN Regular
USA
714 Posts |
Posted - 12/12/2004 : 17:45:59 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dude
[quote]It seems unrighteous to us for God to have the children killed, too. But God is not unrighteous, so we simply don't understand it right off.
What's to understand? Your "the LORD" kills children.
Have you always been insane?
Dude, get a grip. |
Mark 10:27 (NKJV) 27But Jesus looked at them and said, “With men it is impossible, but not with God; for with God all things are possible.”
www.pastorsb.com.htm |
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Doomar
SFN Regular
USA
714 Posts |
Posted - 12/12/2004 : 17:54:43 [Permalink]
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Dave, straining at nats again? Lot was declared a righteous man, not because he did everything right, Dave, but because he believed God and trusted Him. Even the new testament declares how "righteous Lot was vexed by the filthy conversation of the wicked". Consider a main teaching in the Bible, Old and New -- "the just shall live by faith".
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Mark 10:27 (NKJV) 27But Jesus looked at them and said, “With men it is impossible, but not with God; for with God all things are possible.”
www.pastorsb.com.htm |
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Doomar
SFN Regular
USA
714 Posts |
Posted - 12/12/2004 : 18:19:10 [Permalink]
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[quote]Originally posted by Dave W.
I'd like to see the chapter and verse which supports the notion that these "reasons" were fair, just and merciful.
Is it fair that all men die, Dave? God sees all of us as sinners, worthy of eternal judgment. Every person will die. You judge one type of death to be worse than another though you've not experience death at all. What makes you an expert in this field of dying? On the other hand, God is an expert in giving life and taking life, yet He has provided a way of escape, a way of mercy, if anyone wishes to take it. Over a few thousand years only a few incidents are mentioned in the Bible of God judging a people severely by killing even the children. "Behold the goodness and severity of God". A believer assumes that God had His reasons for these actions and His most severe judgments are reserved to severe cases of rebellion and evil. As I noted, only a few such cases are mentioned in the Bible which spans a period of perhaps 6,000 years. You and others don't understand the reasons, and I probably don't either, but we differ in that I believe God had His reasons and they were justified, because I believe He is ultimately fair and just, while you condemn His actions and condemn God himself to be less just than mortal men. Herein is the evidence of men exalting themselves above God and stating how they are more righteous than He. This is extreme presumption and pride, both serious sins. It's no wonder that God must judge men to weed out the extreme wickedness and preserve goodness.
Putting a stumbling block in front of a weak person to cause them to fall is a very evil thing, according to the Bible. A man who causes a "little one" who believes in the Lord to stumble is said to be better of if he had a millstone tied on his neck and thrown into the sea. Yet how many of you give little thought to how your beliefs and actions relating to God affect your children? Atheism is an acceptable thing among you, demeaning diety, an every day affair in your posts. "the fear of God is not among them". "The fear (respect) of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom" |
Mark 10:27 (NKJV) 27But Jesus looked at them and said, “With men it is impossible, but not with God; for with God all things are possible.”
www.pastorsb.com.htm |
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Doomar
SFN Regular
USA
714 Posts |
Posted - 12/12/2004 : 18:27:02 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by moakley
[purple]Killing children is wrong. If your god does it, then your god is an evil god. If you worship a god who commits evil acts, then you are evil.
God takes and gives life, Moakley, but is never a murderer. All life belongs to Him. How do you think death came about, Moakley? Who rules over death? Is it in man's hand when he will live or die. I think not. So when anyone dies, God allows it and in some cases, is the cause of it by His judgment. In every case, however, men brought about all the evil in the world with the help of Satan. God had nothing to do with all the sinful acts of man. All his murdering, maiming, beating, raping, pillaging,lying, stealing and so on. When God brings "pay back" to an evil group of people who have been pillaging and killing for centuries, you cry "foul!" You would make a horrible judge. |
Mark 10:27 (NKJV) 27But Jesus looked at them and said, “With men it is impossible, but not with God; for with God all things are possible.”
www.pastorsb.com.htm |
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Doomar
SFN Regular
USA
714 Posts |
Posted - 12/12/2004 : 18:32:29 [Permalink]
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[quote]Originally posted by H. Humbert
In other words, you can't understand the OT unless you go in with the intent to sugarcoat it. Merely taking it at face value would make any man lose his faith.
That's absurd, H.H. An intent to truly understand, rather than to find fault, would be helpful. The Bible is a deep book and full of deep truths that cannot be found by simply skimming the pages. Neither can you even understand certain text without researching the background and comparing to other scripture. The Bible is not sugarcoated at all. Faults and glaring failures are written down along with tremendous sucesses. But thinking that the Books are full of conflict because you don't understand something is pretty foolish. You need to study it more with an open mind. |
Mark 10:27 (NKJV) 27But Jesus looked at them and said, “With men it is impossible, but not with God; for with God all things are possible.”
www.pastorsb.com.htm |
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Doomar
SFN Regular
USA
714 Posts |
Posted - 12/12/2004 : 18:46:10 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by moakley
[assertions. Faith is not a good foundation on which to build understanding and knowledge, no matter the subject. The utilization of faith, and faith alone, in evaluating the merits of any assertion eliminates the need for the brain we were created with
On the contrary, "without faith, it is impossible to please God"
Now some faith is necessary whenever you evaluate what someone says. For example, when one reads a book in the Bible he assumes some faith in the author, in that he must believe that the author was truthful in what he wrote. If you think is was just a bunch of liars, then why are you even here discussing this? Some faith is needed then to start, before you even evaluate what was said. This doesn't mean that our intellect is not needed, only that in and of itself is not enough. Point is, the Bible is useless to study to anyone who outright rejects it as having no merit. You must have some faith. |
Mark 10:27 (NKJV) 27But Jesus looked at them and said, “With men it is impossible, but not with God; for with God all things are possible.”
www.pastorsb.com.htm |
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