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Doomar
SFN Regular
USA
714 Posts |
 Posted - 12/13/2004 : 21:52:19 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dude
It's completely pointless to continue this thread. Doomar just claims that anything god does is A-OK because it's god doing it. I think he fails to realize that he's contradicting himself even in the title of the thread. If, as Doomar claims, no action taken by god can (by definition) be unjust or unmerciful, why bother asking why "bad stuff" is attributed to god?
It probably is pointless for you, Dude, however, some of us think the so called "bad" things God does have a greater purpose and meaning. Our lack of understanding for why He did or allowed certain things is the reason for this thread. Our misunderstanding who God is and His multiple roles, the most misunderstood being the Judge of the earth, is the reason we are discussing this subject. Consider that a Judge in a court of law has the responsibility and power to condemn a man to death in certain states. If a lay person takes on this role and brings about the death of another, he is a murderer, because he is not enbued with that responsibility in society. Even if he condemns an evil person, not having the legal right to do it makes him an accomplice to 1st degree murder. Thus, having the legal authority is the key in this matter. God obviously has the authority and is not afraid to use it, Skeptic Friends not withstanding. |
Mark 10:27 (NKJV) 27But Jesus looked at them and said, “With men it is impossible, but not with God; for with God all things are possible.”
www.pastorsb.com.htm |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 12/14/2004 : 01:59:05 [Permalink]
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quote:
It probably is pointless for you, Dude, however, some of us think the so called "bad" things God does have a greater purpose and meaning. Our lack of understanding for why He did or allowed certain things is the reason for this thread. Our misunderstanding who God is and His multiple roles, the most misunderstood being the Judge of the earth, is the reason we are discussing this subject.
You ever see the Bugs/Daffy episode where Daffy has some "pronoun troubles"?
Because YOU seem to be having them. Some of "us" and "our" lack of understanding...?
Replace with YOU and YOUR.
If, in over 2000 years, you dumbasses haven't been able to puzzle out a reason for why god would murder children, then perhaps you should just accept the obvious answer. (one of two, actually) 1. (granting you the premise, again, that god exists) God is evil. Or, 2. God did not do the "bad" things attrubuted to him in the OT, and it's a huge work of fiction with occasional bits of history thrown in.
Or you could just wake up and accept the rational position of atheism.
quote:
Thus, having the legal authority is the key in this matter. God obviously has the authority and is not afraid to use it,
I can't respond to your idiocy without being extremely rude at this point. If you are truly so incapable of moral reasoning that you suggest "legal authority" as a justification for the murder of children, then you need to seek professional help.
Seek help.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Robb
SFN Regular
USA
1223 Posts |
Posted - 12/14/2004 : 07:15:03 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dude
If, in over 2000 years, you dumbasses haven't been able to puzzle out a reason for why god would murder children, then perhaps you should just accept the obvious answer. (one of two, actually) 1. (granting you the premise, again, that god exists) God is evil. Or, 2. God did not do the "bad" things attrubuted to him in the OT, and it's a huge work of fiction with occasional bits of history thrown in.
Or you could just wake up and accept the rational position of atheism.
Many christians do not have the answers to these questions and no christian has all the answers. However, we can give God the benefit of the doubt because we have a relationship with Him, we know his character from what He has done in our and others lives. Things may look unjust and unfair but maybe they are for a greater good that we cannot understand. Just as I give the benefit of the doubt to my wife. Lets say I see her at a restaurant with another man without her knowing I was at the same restaurant. Because I know her intimately and know her character even if it looks like she is doing something wrong I will know she is not. God promises he will never leave you, not that you will never experience trouble.
I think this quote applies:
"Trials are medicines which our gracious and wise Physician prescribes because we need them; and he proportions the frequency and weight of them to what the case requires. Let us trust his skill and thank him for his prescription."... Sir Isaac Newton
There is no way to prove God exists using science. Just as science cannot be used to predict peoples relationships with each other.
And thanks for the grammer lessons.
quote:
I can't respond to your idiocy without being extremely rude at this point.
Why Not?
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| Edited by - Robb on 12/14/2004 07:27:54 |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 12/14/2004 : 08:14:16 [Permalink]
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quote:
Many christians do not have the answers to these questions and no christian has all the answers. However, we can give God the benefit of the doubt because we have a relationship with Him, we know his character from what He has done in our and others lives. Things may look unjust and unfair but maybe they are for a greater good that we cannot understand.
I don't understand why anyone would harm children. Doesn't mean I'm going to give them a free pass on it though. Yet, because these horrible things are attibuted to you imaginary god, you people seem to have no problem with it.
Robb, you're a family man. Let me ask you this. If your god one day came to your house, announced himself, and said "I'm here to kill your children. I offer no explanation for my actions." and ZAP! your children are dead and your god flies off. What would your reaction be?
quote:
And thanks for the grammer lessons.
Next we'll have spelling lessons! But seriously, grammar doesn't have to be perfect, just understandable. It's impossible for me to try and insert meaning into vague run-on senteces and paragraphs, and if I do I know it won't be what the person intended.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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| Edited by - Dude on 12/14/2004 08:16:56 |
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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard
3192 Posts |
Posted - 12/14/2004 : 08:57:10 [Permalink]
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| I hereby ignore your valid hypothetical and now claim that to question Gods actions is a sin and therefor, end of discussion! |
"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History
"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini |
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Robb
SFN Regular
USA
1223 Posts |
Posted - 12/14/2004 : 09:17:27 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dude
Robb, you're a family man. Let me ask you this. If your god one day came to your house, announced himself, and said "I'm here to kill your children. I offer no explanation for my actions." and ZAP! your children are dead and your god flies off. What would your reaction be?
It would probably be what you would expect. I would be angry, confused and would not want to follow a God that did that to my children. I do not have the faith of Abraham yet. We can disagree, but that is not in God's character. He does not kill people for enjoyment or for no reason. Children do die, and God does not stop it. This is a fact. When bad things happen, God may or may not be behind it, but good will always come out of any pain and suffering if you have a relationship with God. |
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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard
3192 Posts |
Posted - 12/14/2004 : 09:21:36 [Permalink]
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But killing forty two children for making a bald joke is OK? Do you think all 42 were malicious? Perhaps only a few were the instigators and the others followed along.
So if God didnt order this act then the Bible is false about a prophet, which of course has enormous implications for the rest of the arguements. And if he did order it then... |
"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History
"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini |
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Storm
SFN Regular
USA
708 Posts |
Posted - 12/14/2004 : 10:11:23 [Permalink]
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In some point in your life you have to come to realization that God does bad things. If he doesn't than he turns the other cheek and how f*@#ed up is that. Of course that is if you have faith in God. That something good comes out of it well i cannot agree to that philosophy although I must confess that there were times in my life and significant events that at the time seemed horrible but turned out to be an evolution for me. In fact it was through divine revelation that my evolution to where I am now came about. Despite that it was the direct result of some tragic personal stuff.
If God came to my door one day and killed my children I would cast the worst of the worst black magic spell.
But then again you see in the legend of Jesus that God gave his only son to die so that we all may be saved. So if God killed his own son why not ours?
Does anyone see any symbolism behind the crucifixation of Jesus Christ? other than the regular bullshit of immediately not believing in it. I mean the actual symbolism?
Don't take any of what I said to mean I have Faith |
Storm |
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Robb
SFN Regular
USA
1223 Posts |
Posted - 12/14/2004 : 12:27:07 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by BigPapaSmurf
But killing forty two children for making a bald joke is OK? Do you think all 42 were malicious? Perhaps only a few were the instigators and the others followed along.
So if God didnt order this act then the Bible is false about a prophet, which of course has enormous implications for the rest of the arguements. And if he did order it then...
I don't have an answer for you right now on Elisha and the bears. I admit it is perplexing to me. I will look at it tonight and see if I can understand what was going on. I am at work so I can't study right now. |
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the_ignored
SFN Addict
2562 Posts |
Posted - 12/14/2004 : 14:45:16 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Doomar
quote:
Originally posted by Dude
It's completely pointless to continue this thread. Doomar just claims that anything god does is A-OK because it's god doing it. I think he fails to realize that he's contradicting himself even in the title of the thread. If, as Doomar claims, no action taken by god can (by definition) be unjust or unmerciful, why bother asking why "bad stuff" is attributed to god?
It probably is pointless for you, Dude, however, some of us think the so called "bad" things God does have a greater purpose and meaning. Our lack of understanding for why He did or allowed certain things is the reason for this thread. Our misunderstanding who God is and His multiple roles, the most misunderstood being the Judge of the earth, is the reason we are discussing this subject. Consider that a Judge in a court of law has the responsibility and power to condemn a man to death in certain states. If a lay person takes on this role and brings about the death of another, he is a murderer, because he is not enbued with that responsibility in society. Even if he condemns an evil person, not having the legal right to do it makes him an accomplice to 1st degree murder. Thus, having the legal authority is the key in this matter. God obviously has the authority and is not afraid to use it, Skeptic Friends not withstanding.
How many judges order the exections of the infant children of the defendants? |
>From: enuffenuff@fastmail.fm
(excerpt follows):
> I'm looking to teach these two bastards a lesson they'll never forget.
> Personal visit by mates of mine. No violence, just a wee little chat.
>
> **** has also committed more crimes than you can count with his
> incitement of hatred against a religion. That law came in about 2007
> much to ****'s ignorance. That is fact and his writing will become well
> know as well as him becoming a publicly known icon of hatred.
>
> Good luck with that fuckwit. And Reynold, fucking run, and don't stop.
> Disappear would be best as it was you who dared to attack me on my
> illness knowing nothing of the cause. You disgust me and you are top of
> the list boy. Again, no violence. Just regular reminders of who's there
> and visits to see you are behaving. Nothing scary in reality. But I'd
> still disappear if I was you.
What brought that on? this. Original posting here.
Another example of this guy's lunacy here. |
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 12/14/2004 : 15:00:21 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Doomar
God obviously has the authority and is not afraid to use it, Skeptic Friends not withstanding.
Who or what gives god that authority?
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
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Storm
SFN Regular
USA
708 Posts |
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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard
3192 Posts |
Posted - 12/15/2004 : 06:25:45 [Permalink]
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"Revomed unapropriate comment" bps
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"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History
"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini |
| Edited by - BigPapaSmurf on 12/15/2004 06:27:46 |
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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard
3192 Posts |
Posted - 12/15/2004 : 06:34:25 [Permalink]
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quote:
Scoffers are typically quick to demand good methodology when dealing with extraordinary claims, insisting on such things as replications, control groups, double-blind experiments, and the rule of parsimony (Ockham's Razor). They often write of the cognitive fallacies committed by paranormalists. In the process, however, they overlook the same need for rigor in many areas they defend. Thus, alternative medicine is denounced for its failure to demonstrate claims with proper experiments, ignoring the absence of experimental evidence in many areas of orthodox medicine (for example, in surgery). And scoffers denounce "psychic" counsellors but don't bother to do controlled experiments comparing them to orthodox advisors such as psychiatrists, clinical psychologists, and social workers.
How silly, of course we dont compare the two, one says "I am trying to find out about the brain and personalities from data extrapolated and collected over many years and the other says I am going to make conclusions based on 100% bullshit. Why compare the two?, Of course Psychology isnt perfect it doesnt claim to be , but it will change if new data is presented. Whereas ParaPsi has no data to begin with.
That site is lame imo, it justifies psychics as unknown quantities, which is not the case and not how proper science is done. |
"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History
"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 12/15/2004 : 11:00:56 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Robb
God promises he will never leave you, not that you will never experience trouble.
I think this quote applies:
"Trials are medicines which our gracious and wise Physician prescribes because we need them; and he proportions the frequency and weight of them to what the case requires. Let us trust his skill and thank him for his prescription."... Sir Isaac Newton
There is no way to prove God exists using science. Just as science cannot be used to predict peoples relationships with each other.
This is actually quite funny since Isaac Newton was an ass outside science.
All bad shit that has happened to me in my life has made me a church-loathing atheist/agnostic. I'm sure your God intended this. So don't be offended, because God ment me to say to you and Doomar that you can go and stuff your faith and Bible up eachother's rectums. It's His devine message to you (through me).
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Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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