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verlch
SFN Regular
781 Posts |
 Posted - 12/12/2004 : 15:30:40
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http://w3.kill-9.com/apache_kills.mpeg
Here is a video of Iraq men getting blasted. The are the enemy and they are setting up a gernade launcher next to the road in the middle of the night. From 5 miles away this Apache helicopter dusts the enemy, they couldn't even hear the copter! I've never seen anything like this in my life!
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What came first the chicken or the egg?
How do plants exist without bugs in the soil, and bugs in the soil without plants producing oxygen?
There are no atheists in foxholes
Underlying the evolutionary theory is not just the classic "stuff" of science — conclusions arrived at through prolonged observation and experimentation. Evolution is first an atheistic, materialistic world view. In other words, the primary reason for its acceptance has little to do with the evidence for or against it. Evolution is accepted because men are atheists by faith and thus interpret the evidence to cor-respond to their naturalistic philosophy.
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. II Timothy 4:3,4
II Thess. 2:11 And for this cause God shall
send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
You can not see the 'wind', but you can see its effect!!!!
Evolution was caused by genetic mistakes at each stage?
Radical Evolution has 500 million years to find fossils of fictional drawings of (hard core)missing links, yet they find none.
We have not seen such moral darkness since the dark ages, coencides with
teaching evolution in schools. (Moral darkness)
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places, EPH 6:12.
"Thus, many scientists embracing naturalism find themselves in the seeming dilemma recently articulated by biochemist Franklin Harold: "We should reject, as a matter of principle, the substitution of intelligent design for the dialogue of chance and necessity [i.e., Darwinian evolution]; but we must concede that there are presently no detailed Darwinian accounts of the evolution of any biochemical system, only a variety of wishful speculations."
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tomk80
SFN Regular
Netherlands
1278 Posts |
Posted - 12/12/2004 : 16:01:21 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by verlch
http://w3.kill-9.com/apache_kills.mpeg
Here is a video of Iraq men getting blasted. The are the enemy and they are setting up a gernade launcher next to the road in the middle of the night. From 5 miles away this Apache helicopter dusts the enemy, they couldn't even hear the copter! I've never seen anything like this in my life!
Sorry, I don't like people getting killed. Getting all excited over it disgusts me. |
Tom
`Contrariwise,' continued Tweedledee, `if it was so, it might be; and if it were so, it would be; but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic.'
-Through the Looking Glass by Lewis Caroll- |
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard
USA
4907 Posts |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 12/12/2004 : 18:11:11 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Ricky
Verlch, you come here preaching the Bible, but then show a video of men getting killed while laying wounded on the ground.
That's not killing, that's murdering. I'm pretty sure it is a violation of the Geneva Convention. |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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tkster
Skeptic Friend
USA
193 Posts |
Posted - 12/12/2004 : 18:18:57 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by verlch
http://w3.kill-9.com/apache_kills.mpeg
Here is a video of Iraq men getting blasted. The are the enemy and they are setting up a gernade launcher next to the road in the middle of the night. From 5 miles away this Apache helicopter dusts the enemy, they couldn't even hear the copter! I've never seen anything like this in my life!
Oh Dear ... my eyes ... |
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verlch
SFN Regular
781 Posts |
Posted - 12/12/2004 : 21:59:07 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Ricky
Even worse, the last man was wounded on the ground and they killed him anyway.
Verlch, you come here preaching the Bible, but then show a video of men getting killed while laying wounded on the ground.
Oh go pound sand that was the enemy and I didn't or ever would pull a trigger to kill somebody. Unless some army was marching to take over my city in Oregon and I had to kill them to protect my loved ones. That is the only way I would take the life of another human is an act of war on my house! That man was going to take an American life the next morning and you don't care? Perhaps taking up arms against America is the wrong thing to do! Do you think they feel sorry when they wipe out Americans, Jews or even their own people...
We have laws there, they break them and that is the punishment. When you break a law in America you get punished by the law. Only a liberal would question the logic of that! When you grew up I bet all you had to do was have time outs! Where was your father, and did he tan your hide? |
What came first the chicken or the egg?
How do plants exist without bugs in the soil, and bugs in the soil without plants producing oxygen?
There are no atheists in foxholes
Underlying the evolutionary theory is not just the classic "stuff" of science — conclusions arrived at through prolonged observation and experimentation. Evolution is first an atheistic, materialistic world view. In other words, the primary reason for its acceptance has little to do with the evidence for or against it. Evolution is accepted because men are atheists by faith and thus interpret the evidence to cor-respond to their naturalistic philosophy.
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. II Timothy 4:3,4
II Thess. 2:11 And for this cause God shall
send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
You can not see the 'wind', but you can see its effect!!!!
Evolution was caused by genetic mistakes at each stage?
Radical Evolution has 500 million years to find fossils of fictional drawings of (hard core)missing links, yet they find none.
We have not seen such moral darkness since the dark ages, coencides with
teaching evolution in schools. (Moral darkness)
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places, EPH 6:12.
"Thus, many scientists embracing naturalism find themselves in the seeming dilemma recently articulated by biochemist Franklin Harold: "We should reject, as a matter of principle, the substitution of intelligent design for the dialogue of chance and necessity [i.e., Darwinian evolution]; but we must concede that there are presently no detailed Darwinian accounts of the evolution of any biochemical system, only a variety of wishful speculations."
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 12/12/2004 : 22:34:09 [Permalink]
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quote:
Oh go pound sand that was the enemy and I didn't or ever would pull a trigger to kill somebody. Unless some army was marching to take over my city in Oregon and I had to kill them to protect my loved ones. That is the only way I would take the life of another human is an act of war on my house!
You wouldn't kill, but you condone the killing? You never cease to boggle the minds of rational people. Coward.
quote:
That man was going to take an American life the next morning and you don't care?
The wounded guy they shot with the Apache's cannon was going to do... what exactly? You're a sick little fuck if you think that was ok. The guy was wounded, probably seriously, and they blasted him to pieces with a cannon that can defeat the armor of most TANKS.
I've been in the military, served some time during the first gulf war. As my recolection goes, it's a violation of the Geneva convention to shoot at a human target with a weapon of that destructive capacity, for any reason. You can destroy vehicles (occupied or not, due to the capacity of vehicles to carry larger weapons) with those, but aiming them at people is a war crime.
The US has changed, apparently, how we interpret the rules. I have seen the C-131 gunships and Appaches used agianst human targets many times since 9/11.
Shooting the wounded guy with that weapon is over the top however.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard
USA
4907 Posts |
Posted - 12/12/2004 : 23:17:26 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by verlch
quote:
Originally posted by Ricky
Even worse, the last man was wounded on the ground and they killed him anyway.
Verlch, you come here preaching the Bible, but then show a video of men getting killed while laying wounded on the ground.
Oh go pound sand that was the enemy and I didn't or ever would pull a trigger to kill somebody. Unless some army was marching to take over my city in Oregon and I had to kill them to protect my loved ones. That is the only way I would take the life of another human is an act of war on my house!
Where exactly do you think Iraqis live? Afghanistan? Verlch, you miss the very simple fact that that is where they live. Furthermore, you miss the fact that he was wounded on the ground. That is an execution, not war.
quote:
That man was going to take an American life the next morning and you don't care? Perhaps taking up arms against America is the wrong thing to do! Do you think they feel sorry when they wipe out Americans, Jews or even their own people...
If they were in America, maybe. But they weren't. How can you kill an American who is in Iraq if there are no Americans in Iraq?
But you are missing the whole point. The point is not that he was killed, its how he was killed.
quote:
We have laws there,
This may be the funniest thing Verlch has said. I just wish it was satire instead of Verlch being serious.
quote:
they break them and that is the punishment. When you break a law in America you get punished by the law. Only a liberal would question the logic of that! When you grew up I bet all you had to do was have time outs! Where was your father, and did he tan your hide?
Do you know where they are? I'll give you a hint, its doesn't begin with an A-m-e-r. 
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Why continue? Because we must. Because we have the call. Because it is nobler to fight for rationality without winning than to give up in the face of continued defeats. Because whatever true progress humanity makes is through the rationality of the occasional individual and because any one individual we may win for the cause may do more for humanity than a hundred thousand who hug their superstitions to their breast.
- Isaac Asimov |
| Edited by - Ricky on 12/12/2004 23:18:08 |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 12/13/2004 : 02:26:08 [Permalink]
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There is also the thought that our troops have no business being in Iraq in the first place. They are there only because the back-stabbing, cowardiy ignoramus that calls himself 'president' wanted to invade Iraq and lied his ass off to get it going.
And now our military and ourselves, as well as the Iraqis are paying for this obscene debacle.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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Starman
SFN Regular
Sweden
1613 Posts |
Posted - 12/13/2004 : 06:25:53 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dude
As my recolection goes, it's a violation of the Geneva convention to shoot at a human target with a weapon of that destructive capacity, for any reason. You can destroy vehicles (occupied or not, due to the capacity of vehicles to carry larger weapons) with those, but aiming them at people is a war crime.
Could not find that with a quick search. (Anyone?)
Found this.
You should not use weapons or attacks that cause excessive injury or suffering.
Don't know if its applicable here.
Not compared with many other weapons (Any artillery for instance).
It is prohibited to kill or wound an enemy who is surrendering or who is hors de combat.
He is not surrendering, but is he out of combat?
(Probably yes, but is the Apache crew able to take the risk?)
War is hell and the rules can seem absurd!
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 12/13/2004 : 06:38:09 [Permalink]
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I'm not entirely certain of the rules, but I think that if you are under attack or attacking, you can shoot the enemy with whatever you happen to have that will shoot, be it rifle or a howitzer.
The point is moot anyway because that's the way it's done, always.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard
3192 Posts |
Posted - 12/13/2004 : 06:50:53 [Permalink]
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This is all I could find, I doubt this will fall under the GC.
Art. 31. No physical or moral coercion shall be exercised against protected persons, in particular to obtain information from them or from third parties.
Art. 32. The High Contracting Parties specifically agree that each of them is prohibited from taking any measure of such a character as to cause the physical suffering or extermination of protected persons in their hands. This prohibition applies not only to murder, torture, corporal punishments, mutilation and medical or scientific experiments not necessitated by the medical treatment of a protected person, but also to any other measures of brutality whether applied by civilian or military agents.
Art. 33. No protected person may be punished for an offence he or she has not personally committed. Collective penalties and likewise all measures of intimidation or of terrorism are prohibited.
Art. 147. Grave breaches to which the preceding Article relates shall be those involving any of the following acts, if committed against persons or property protected by the present Convention: wilful killing, torture or inhuman treatment, including biological experiments, wilfully causing great suffering or serious injury to body or health, unlawful deportation or transfer or unlawful confinement of a protected person, compelling a protected person to serve in the forces of a hostile Power, or willfully depriving a protected person of the rights of fair and regular trial prescribed in the present Convention, taking of hostages and extensive destruction and appropriation of property, not justified by military necessity and carried out unlawfully and wantonly.
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"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History
"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 12/13/2004 : 07:09:20 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by verlch
Unless some army was marching to take over my city in Oregon and I had to kill them to protect my loved ones. That is the only way I would take the life of another human is an act of war on my house!
You stupid %¤# !!!
That guy setting up the grenade launcher was defending HIS OWN COUNTRY against an invading aggressor. America is the army marching on the poor guys house, and he is trying to defend his family with whatever means he comes across.
quote:
That man was going to take an American life the next morning and you don't care?
Actually, I do care. Your ignorant sentiments are making me cheer for those Iraqi freedom fighters.
(actually, I mourn for the loss of any life in Iraq. It's just that Americans have no business being there in the first place, so if I have to choose, I prefer American soldiers killed, rather than Iraqi militia)
quote:
Perhaps taking up arms against America is the wrong thing to do!
YES! When in America. Outside America, it's the right thing to do. American military forces have no business being offensive (yes, pun intended) anywhere but on American soil.
quote:
We have laws there, they break them and that is the punishment.
The American that ordered the murder of the wounded guy was committing a crime by ordering to shoot. You hypocrite! Two evils does not make it right.
(Edited spelling) |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
| Edited by - Dr. Mabuse on 12/13/2004 07:11:19 |
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Starman
SFN Regular
Sweden
1613 Posts |
Posted - 12/13/2004 : 07:23:21 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
quote:
Originally posted by verlch
Perhaps taking up arms against America is the wrong thing to do!
YES! When in America. Outside America, it's the right thing to do.
Under certain circumstances it might be the right thing to do.quote:
American military forces have no business being offensive (yes, pun intended) anywhere but on American soil.
If a place outside American soil is used to stage attacks on Americans, they definitely have this right. Again under certain circumstances. |
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tomk80
SFN Regular
Netherlands
1278 Posts |
Posted - 12/13/2004 : 08:12:12 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by verlch
Oh go pound sand that was the enemy and I didn't or ever would pull a trigger to kill somebody. Unless some army was marching to take over my city in Oregon and I had to kill them to protect my loved ones. That is the only way I would take the life of another human is an act of war on my house! That man was going to take an American life the next morning and you don't care? Perhaps taking up arms against America is the wrong thing to do! Do you think they feel sorry when they wipe out Americans, Jews or even their own people...
We have laws there, they break them and that is the punishment. When you break a law in America you get punished by the law. Only a liberal would question the logic of that! When you grew up I bet all you had to do was have time outs! Where was your father, and did he tan your hide?
You may not take up the weapons yourself in this case, but you sure seemed to love people getting killed. It's one thing to know of the realities of war. Furthermore, I won't make any judgements on the actions of the pilots. They are in the middle of it, and maybe their actions were justified, I don't know and for the moment I can't do anything about it.
However, what disgusts me, is posting such videos on message boards, all but drooling over how cool it is that some people get killed before they even have a clue that they are targets. And I can tell you that I don't like such videos being posted and ask you not to do that again. And I can tell you that you should, in my opinion, do some serious introspection if you delight in seeing real life videos of people getting killed.
edited: readability |
Tom
`Contrariwise,' continued Tweedledee, `if it was so, it might be; and if it were so, it would be; but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic.'
-Through the Looking Glass by Lewis Caroll- |
| Edited by - tomk80 on 12/13/2004 08:13:58 |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 12/13/2004 : 08:28:16 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by verlch
quote:
Originally posted by Ricky
Even worse, the last man was wounded on the ground and they killed him anyway.
Verlch, you come here preaching the Bible, but then show a video of men getting killed while laying wounded on the ground.
Oh go pound sand that was the enemy and I didn't or ever would pull a trigger to kill somebody. Unless some army was marching to take over my city in Oregon and I had to kill them to protect my loved ones. That is the only way I would take the life of another human is an act of war on my house! That man was going to take an American life the next morning and you don't care? Perhaps taking up arms against America is the wrong thing to do! Do you think they feel sorry when they wipe out Americans, Jews or even their own people...
We have laws there, they break them and that is the punishment. When you break a law in America you get punished by the law. Only a liberal would question the logic of that! When you grew up I bet all you had to do was have time outs! Where was your father, and did he tan your hide?
But yet you veritably revel in the death of others that you consider the "enemy". I see the action as necessary, but not something to be celebrated. Everyone killed in this unnecessary and wasteful war has parents and friends who love them. Reveling in the suffering and death of others is not a trait of Christianity. This just goes to reiterate the hypocricy that is verlch.
Ricky is incorrect in his assessment of the death of the wounded individual. In this case, you have three hostiles which are engaged. After firing, one is down and still moving. Combat logic dictates that you keep firing until the individual surrenders or quits moving.This is the nature of war. That the Iraqi individuals who were setting up a mortar to defend their land is immaterial to the subject at hand. |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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