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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26024 Posts |
 Posted - 12/19/2004 : 19:20:48 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Storm
Ricky I do not know those answers. But from talking to you all and doing the research that I have already accomplished I think it might have to do with our life energy. How have we measured this dispertion of energy when we die.
A better question to ask would be "what is life energy?" After all, asking the question of how we should measure it before it's ever discovered is putting the cart before the horse.quote:
Say for instance a murder scene.Some ghosts are seen at places where a great tragedy has taken place like a murder, suicide. Have we measured if there is a change in the environment on the last breath of this victim. I do not think so.
How do you propose to ethically make before-and-after measurements of the scene of a murder or suicide? You would have to know that a murder or a suicide were about to take place.quote:
So we do not know if it is effected or not.
No known energy would be effected by a murder or a suicide. What makes you think that "life energy" would be?quote:
This life force you mentioned are we talking about a conscious force? I think in Star Wars the life force was the will of the mind.
Go watch Episode I, and thusly erase your ignorance. Beyond that, you're not seriously suggesting that a work of fiction is the basis for your speculations, are you? |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Storm
SFN Regular
USA
708 Posts |
Posted - 12/19/2004 : 19:40:58 [Permalink]
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My basis for speculation has nothing to do with Star Wars the movie. Someone mentioned that in a post. My ignorance Dave of the force in Star Wars was that it was the will inside of one that could control the outside forces, environment. Use the force Luke. The life force energy that I am debating here is associated with death and it's impact on our environment. Dave I have questioned what this life force or energy is since my beginning here on SFN. Through numerous threads. I feel as Filthy has said I have just scratched the surface of this ambigious speculation. This anomaly.
I have said that before Dave I cannot get the evidence of a murder scene that would propose much difficulty. But this does not mean something does not happen. That the environment is not effected thus producing Ghostly Apparitions. Was that paragraph long enough for all you so tight about the grammar, puncuation, etc... |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26024 Posts |
Posted - 12/19/2004 : 20:14:05 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Storm
My basis for speculation has nothing to do with Star Wars the movie. Someone mentioned that in a post. My ignorance Dave of the force in Star Wars was that it was the will inside of one that could control the outside forces, environment. Use the force Luke.
Yeah, except it's provided by virus-like things.quote:
The life force energy that I am debating here is associated with death and it's impact on our environment.
No, that's something you'll need to demonstrate. First, you've got to detect this "life force energy."quote:
Dave I have questioned what this life force or energy is since my beginning here on SFN. Through numerous threads.
And where has your questioning led? To an answer?quote:
I feel as Filthy has said I have just scratched the surface of this ambigious speculation. This anomaly.
filthy knows I have great respect for him, but he also knows when he's talking out his ass. He said as much.quote:
I have said that before Dave I cannot get the evidence of a murder scene that would propose much difficulty. But this does not mean something does not happen.
No, but it means you've got no evidence that anything does happen. Again, I ask you: what makes you think that this "life force energy" is affected by the method of death when no other known energy is so affected? |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Storm
SFN Regular
USA
708 Posts |
Posted - 12/19/2004 : 20:25:19 [Permalink]
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but we are saying no energy has been dectected because none has been measure like in a murder scene. Dave do tou reallty think I can prove this tight away. Now that would be ignorant of you. What makes me thin that there is energy that effects the environment upon death and decay is
1} the fact that you told me the energy dissapatessometimes slowly on a decomposing body
2} the fact that energy gets dispalced or dispersed into the environment. energy does not die.
3} apparitions are known to be seen at murder scenes. maybe there is something in the amount of energy caused my the emotions of the persons involved and that upon the death that energy gets spit out into the environment. hence the apparitions.
No, it means you have no evidence that it does not |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26024 Posts |
Posted - 12/19/2004 : 21:34:11 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Storm
but we are saying no energy has been dectected because none has been measure like in a murder scene.
Right. You've got no evidence of the energy you'd like to find. None.quote:
Dave do tou reallty think I can prove this tight away.
No, I expect that some evidence of such an energy would have come to light in the last hundred-plus years. None has. Are you so arrogant to think that you're the first person to have had this idea?quote:
Now that would be ignorant of you.
No, what's ignorant is thinking that what we're discussing is something new.quote:
What makes me thin that there is energy that effects the environment upon death and decay is
1} the fact that you told me the energy dissapatessometimes slowly on a decomposing body
As heat and food (which ultimately becomes more heat). Does heat make "apparitions?"quote:
2} the fact that energy gets dispalced or dispersed into the environment. energy does not die.
Again, as heat. Our wayward hiker wasn't so lucky as to plummet into a peat bog and become oil over the course of thousands or millions of years.quote:
3} apparitions are known to be seen at murder scenes.
Define "apparition." After all, I can't tell what you're talking about. You seem to agree that some apparitions (at least) are simply tricks of the light and/or hallucinations. Surely your speculative "life force" isn't responsible for those.quote:
maybe there is something in the amount of energy caused my the emotions of the persons involved and that upon the death that energy gets spit out into the environment. hence the apparitions.
What kind of energy would be affected by a person's emotions? I suppose the answer to that is "life energy," but you still haven't defined what "life energy" is, or how it might be affected by emotions. These are basic steps in forming a hypothesis. Define the phenomenon, and make predictions about it.quote:
No, it means you have no evidence that it does not
And you still don't seem to understand that the "default position" is not that a phenomenon exists until it is disproven. Quite the contrary. If you think there's a phenomenon to be measured, it is up to you to provide the positive evidence, otherwise I've got no reason to take it (or you) seriously. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 12/19/2004 : 21:50:32 [Permalink]
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I think Storm's "life energy" might really be N-rays.
Or at least that's my hypothesis.
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
| Edited by - H. Humbert on 12/19/2004 21:51:39 |
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furshur
SFN Regular
USA
1536 Posts |
Posted - 12/20/2004 : 06:56:42 [Permalink]
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Just to get somewhat back on topic for a minute.
It was freaking cold this morning and I saw a curious thing. There was some sort of white gas coming out of the tailpipes of all of the cars driving around. There was also a white gas coming out of the sewer grates.
Could the goverment be putting something in the gasoline to cause this?
I'll bet the 'white gas' gas coming out of the cars and the chemtrails are related!!
What do you think!
Maybe it is not gas at all from the cars but, spirits from the released life force from all the ancient animals that made up the fossil fuel!
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If I knew then what I know now then I would know more now than I know. |
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard
USA
4907 Posts |
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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard
3192 Posts |
Posted - 12/20/2004 : 11:06:59 [Permalink]
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| Now THAT I have experienced. Of course always followed by God's list of Demons for me to kill! |
"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History
"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini |
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R.Wreck
SFN Regular
USA
1191 Posts |
Posted - 12/20/2004 : 13:28:35 [Permalink]
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Dave, you're going to hurt yourself beating your head against this wall. Sit back, take a break, have a Rolling Rock or six.
Storm, until you demonstrate at least a rudimentary understanding of energy as currently defined by science, many here will have a hard time taking your claims seriously. And if you want to further the science and discover new things, you definitely need to understand the things already discovered (standing on the shoulders of giants, as they say).
So at the risk of a bruise to my own forehead:
Here is a basic overview of energy.
And here is basic heat transfer.
Please read and try to understand these references. Only If we are all discussing energy from the same basic level of understanding can we get somewhere on the concepts of "life energy" or any other energy related topic. |
The foundation of morality is to . . . give up pretending to believe that for which there is no evidence, and repeating unintelligible propositions about things beyond the possibliities of knowledge.
T. H. Huxley
The Cattle Prod of Enlightened Compassion
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 12/20/2004 : 14:41:29 [Permalink]
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Hm. I fear I've been misunderstood. When I wrote of 'energy' and 'just scratching the surface,' I was refering to the overall energy of the universe, not that insignificent amount quietly dissipating from a fresh corpse, even if that corpse should be mine own, energetic and ambitious (yeah, right!) self.
Again, I know squat about quantum physics, and not a hell of a lot about the regular kind, but let's ask the questions: What of the energy put forth by internal furnace of a star? What of that eminating and absorbed by a black hole? What unthinkable force was hurled into (????) by the so-called Big Bang? And what might be unleashed by the 'Big Crunch,' if such indeed is the untimate fate of the universe, as hypothosized? What is exactly the force currently called 'dark matter?" And so forth.
It boggles the mind and I'm not sure that we've even found the surface, much less scratched it.
Our bodies absorb and release energy constantly. We breath, eat, and defecate. When it is too hot for us, or we have exerted ourselves, we sweat, throwing off energy. When we are too cold, we shiver as we lose some of the energy of body temperature. It is all basically energy exchange in a biological vessel. When we die, what energy we have not exchanged simply dissapates, heat into the atmosphers, flesh into other, biological vessels, until there is nothing left except bone. And sooner or later, the scattered bones of Dave's hiker would have been gnawed away by other biological vessels; rodents and notably, porcupines.
So, as the existence of a 'soul' is very much in doubt, what is left to fuel a ghost?
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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Storm
SFN Regular
USA
708 Posts |
Posted - 12/20/2004 : 16:38:59 [Permalink]
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| Are you defining ghost as the conscious soul of a dead person that lingers on? That has not gone to the light? As my neighbor firmly believes. Or can we maybe think of ghost as this energy that dissapates and heats the atmosphere? What is left to fuel a ghost? That is a good question Filthy? But how can we measure that? |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26024 Posts |
Posted - 12/20/2004 : 17:20:30 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Storm
Or can we maybe think of ghost as this energy that dissapates and heats the atmosphere? What is left to fuel a ghost? That is a good question Filthy? But how can we measure that?
I dare say the heat dissapated by a window air conditioner over the course of a day is far greater than that in a corpse. Are air conditioners places where many "apparitions" are seen?
How about foundries? They throw off tons of heat.
Just what is an "apparition," anyway?
filthy, I misunderstood you before, obviously. However, physicists do have a firm grasp of all of the energy transfers involved in those things you mentioned, except the Big Bang, Big Crunch (if any), and the so-called "dark energy," which is purely theoretical now (but I've yet to hear of any physicists claiming that it might be affected by the emotional states of the dying). |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Storm
SFN Regular
USA
708 Posts |
Posted - 12/20/2004 : 18:29:36 [Permalink]
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| Well dave we do not know exactly what an apparition is. According to webster it is an unusual or unexpected sight. A ghostly figure. It is the so called appearence of one who is dead. It can also be though the appearence of a living person like in bi location. Since no known studies have been done than how can we say that it is not so? No Dave it would not be found in Air conditions. I think it has to do with things like us , animals. Somehow I feel it ties in to our level of consciousness. It may not lie in the amount of heat but the type of heat. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 12/20/2004 : 19:07:03 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Storm
Are you defining ghost as the conscious soul of a dead person that lingers on? That has not gone to the light? As my neighbor firmly believes. Or can we maybe think of ghost as this energy that dissapates and heats the atmosphere? What is left to fuel a ghost? That is a good question Filthy? But how can we measure that?
To the best of my knowledge, there is no way to measure it.
But if we assume ghosts of people, it follows that we must also assume that the original owner of the pork chop I ate for supper just might be coming back to haunt me. Is it not so?
quote:
filthy, I misunderstood you before, obviously. However, physicists do have a firm grasp of all of the energy transfers involved in those things you mentioned, except the Big Bang, Big Crunch (if any), and the so-called "dark energy," which is purely theoretical now (but I've yet to hear of any physicists claiming that it might be affected by the emotional states of the dying).
Yeah, I dig it. Got a little carried away, for a minute. But the universe is so incredably vast! It seems that I read about something new all the time. Stars forming in apparent dust clouds; stars dying in a hell far beyond the imagination of the most rabid fundie -- amazing! The violence and the energy involved defies belief! What new wonders await us?
Edited to add: Storm, does it not seem reasonable that the energy we aquire and cast off ultimatly is absorbed into the enviornment in which we lived? That seems a much more reasonable explanation than a supernatural one.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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| Edited by - filthy on 12/20/2004 19:21:13 |
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