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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
 Posted - 01/01/2005 : 16:16:51 [Permalink]
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quote:
Storm:
but if you look at in the context of residual energy then you have a beginning and it might be through the use of these instruments that the evidence can brought forth
nothing paranormal, supernatural...
but normal dispersed energy of what was once us...
our existence.
You have not demonstrated that there is any residual energy. And as long as Ghosts are not scientifically confirmed, they remain in the realm of the paranormal and the supernatural. And no amount of hypothesizing on your part will change that. You might as well say "If my aunt had wings she would be an airplane." Until you can prove your aunt has wings, you really don't have much ofa hypotheses to work from. First you need to demonstrate that your aunt really does have wings.
The bottom line Storm is you just don't get to make shit up to explain how you think what does not seem to happen, happens...
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 01/01/2005 : 18:22:30 [Permalink]
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quote:
Maybe ghosts are just decaying energy, transformed energy from a once living creature. Having our dna... Not the full conscious like you and I speak now...
And maybe, just maybe, they are a figment of your overactive imagination.
Again, you clearly lack any understanding of what energy is. What you are saying defies ALL previous observations of energy. You are stating a position that is directly contradictory to our knowledge of energy, and you do it without offering the slightest shred of evidence.
And you continue to refuse to even acknowledge the existance of things like critical thinking, logic, and scientific method.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Storm
SFN Regular
USA
708 Posts |
Posted - 01/01/2005 : 18:29:50 [Permalink]
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I do not just make up shit Kil..
Residual energy has long been one theory in the ghost field as cause of ghostly phenomenon....
You should look into some more recent research into ghostly phenomenon...
Well we are already aware of the fact that energy cannot be created or destroyed. It can only be changed from one form to another form of energy. It is time to apply this to evidence of ghost phenomenon...
Our energy merely changes upon death and maybe here lies my evidence for ghosts...
Not very supernatural or paranormal
The theory is not rocket science
It is just getting to prove it..
But ghost hunters and researchers are trying
Let us not forget that at one time certain occurances were thought to be of supernatural origin...
Now we know better..
So to I hope for the research into ghosts..
Leave the supernatural behind...
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Storm
SFN Regular
USA
708 Posts |
Posted - 01/01/2005 : 18:54:39 [Permalink]
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reguardless of if I have shown you evidence or not...
We do not know that it does not have to do with energy because how could we measure it
With this theory ghost researches are using scientific equipment to see if this may be true...
Don't you see that this brings the world of ghosts out of the supernatural realm and into the scientific...
What an advancement...
Not only that ...
People who see ghosts are sort of mediums picking up this energy..
I do not refuse to acknowledge critical thinking, scientific method
Just merly here to revise it ...
In fact I am doing my homework right now that I believe wreck asked of me on logical fallacy great website I found
http://www.fallacyfiles.org/introtof.html
So do not say to me I do not acknowledge the existence it is science and critical thinking that are my guides |
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R.Wreck
SFN Regular
USA
1191 Posts |
Posted - 01/01/2005 : 19:02:37 [Permalink]
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quote:
Well we are already aware of the fact that energy cannot be created or destroyed. It can only be changed from one form to another form of energy. It is time to apply this to evidence of ghost phenomenon...
Our energy merely changes upon death and maybe here lies my evidence for ghosts...
Learn about entropy if you want to know how energy acts. It does not just go floating around creating cold spots and moving your EMF meter. Energy tends to become less useful, that is less able to do work, every time it spontaneously changes. Look it up. |
The foundation of morality is to . . . give up pretending to believe that for which there is no evidence, and repeating unintelligible propositions about things beyond the possibliities of knowledge.
T. H. Huxley
The Cattle Prod of Enlightened Compassion
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Storm
SFN Regular
USA
708 Posts |
Posted - 01/01/2005 : 19:12:23 [Permalink]
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So what does that mean Maybe in it's sluggish, slow movement, we find ghostly phenomenon. Hence the inability to replicate or predict the phenomenon
Entropy Lacking the power to move, sluggish
Not absent of any movement just slow....
That is why ghosts are only seen every so often, etc
that would explain it...
How do you know wreck it does not cause cold spots? or effect EMF meters? How can we know if we have not measured it. Like you say to me we cannot assume.
But ghost researchers are expirimenting with this and trying to see if it correlates..
At least we are trying to provide evidence... |
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R.Wreck
SFN Regular
USA
1191 Posts |
Posted - 01/01/2005 : 19:31:13 [Permalink]
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quote:
Entropy Lacking the power to move, sluggish
Not absent of any movement just slow....
No no no no no!
Entropy.
quote:
The big deal is that all types of energy spread out like the energy in that hot pan does (unless somehow they're hindered from doing so) They don't tend to stay concentrated in a small space; they flow toward becoming dispersed if they can -- like electricity in a battery or a power line or lightning, wind from a high pressure weather system or air compressed in a tire, all heated objects, loud sounds, water or boulders that are high up on a mountain, your car's kinetic energy when you take your foot off the gas. All these different kinds of energy spread out if there's a way they can do so.
Get the picture? The second law of thermodynamics summarizes that totally different events involving all kinds of energy have a common cause. A blowout in a tire or a car battery shorting out or slowly running down -- what could seem to be more unlike than those! Yet the reason for their occurring is the same, the tendency for concentrated energy not to stay localized, to disperse if it has a chance and isn't hindered somehow.
A major goal in life is to find true BIG ideas that describe how the world works, to understand why and how things happen around us in terms of a small number of basic principles. Principles that can be tested and checked. You can't do better than the second law of thermodynamics. And the direction of energy flow is just a tip of the iceberg of that law.
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The foundation of morality is to . . . give up pretending to believe that for which there is no evidence, and repeating unintelligible propositions about things beyond the possibliities of knowledge.
T. H. Huxley
The Cattle Prod of Enlightened Compassion
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 01/01/2005 : 19:32:41 [Permalink]
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Let me debunk your EMF bullshit for you.
Next time you take that trinket out of it's box, hold it next to you.
Does it give a reading?
Answer.... no. It doesn't.
(granting you several of your owm premise here)
How, then, do you somehow rationalize that an EMF meter can detect what's left of a human's energy if it can't detect a living human? By the observed laws that energy follows, all energy trends to entropy. How then can you explain how your EMF detector won't detect a living person, but could detect a long dead one?
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Storm
SFN Regular
USA
708 Posts |
Posted - 01/01/2005 : 20:01:08 [Permalink]
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The big deal is that all types of energy spread out like the energy in that hot pan does (unless somehow they're hindered from doing so)Very interesting ...
Let us not forget though that energy can be hindered or blocked...
Yet the reason for their occurring is the same, the tendency for concentrated energy not to stay localized, to disperse if it has a chance and isn't hindered somehow.
Maybe in our death our energy is blocked hindered somehow in some way that ghostly phenomenon occurs..
Maybe it is even more evident in hauntings that have to do with murder, suicide, etc that somehow this energy is not dispersed but hindered or blocked
Sometimes dude it does give a reading...
Once we went to this antique shop in Bartow {florida}on an investigation
On some antique chairs my meter recorded high electromagnetic fields when no appliances or high electrical fields were around
Residual energy?
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R.Wreck
SFN Regular
USA
1191 Posts |
Posted - 01/01/2005 : 20:27:06 [Permalink]
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quote:
The big deal is that all types of energy spread out like the energy in that hot pan does (unless somehow they're hindered from doing so)Very interesting ...
Let us not forget though that energy can be hindered or blocked...
Yet the reason for their occurring is the same, the tendency for concentrated energy not to stay localized, to disperse if it has a chance and isn't hindered somehow.
Maybe in our death our energy is blocked hindered somehow in some way that ghostly phenomenon occurs..
I was afraid you'd misinterpret. Te "blocking" referred to has to do with activation energies, that is energy you must put into certain processes to initiate them, after which they proceed on their own. Besides, if the energy from a dead guy was "blocked", it would be blocked inside the dead guy and you wouldn't be able to measure it outside the corpse, so there would be no ghostly phenomena.
Perhaps you didn't read this far:
quote:
A swimmer doesn't come shooting up out of the water to the diving board, rocks in a valley don't suddenly roll up a mountain, outside air doesn't rush into a flat tire, batteries don't get charged by sitting around. Those events all would have energy spontaneously become more concentrated, the opposite of energy spreading out.
Yet that is what you are proposing actually happens. That would be contrary to natural laws.
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The foundation of morality is to . . . give up pretending to believe that for which there is no evidence, and repeating unintelligible propositions about things beyond the possibliities of knowledge.
T. H. Huxley
The Cattle Prod of Enlightened Compassion
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 01/01/2005 : 23:46:04 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Storm
With this theory ghost researches are using scientific equipment to see if this may be true...
Don't you see that this brings the world of ghosts out of the supernatural realm and into the scientific...
No, this is precisely what Beskeptigal told you is not the case.
If my hypothesis were that earthworms are responsible for moving trucks around parking lots when nobody's looking, simply using a scientific instrument like a blood-pressure meter to measure worms wouldn't make my research "scientific." I would first have to demonstrate that using a blood-pressure meter on worms actually measures something about the worms (or about trucks).
Until "ghost hunters" can demostrate that ghosts should affect electromagnetic fields and/or temperatures, using EMF meters or thermometers to "detect" them is an unscientific waste of effort.quote:
I do not refuse to acknowledge critical thinking, scientific method
Just merly here to revise it ...
A wise man once said, "to think outside the box, one must first know what's inside the box." In other words, before you try to "revise" anything about critical thinking or science, you'll need to first demonstrate that either field requires revision. Another wise man put it this way: "if it ain't broke, don't fix it."
Obviously, you feel that because science and critical thinking do not support your heartfelt beliefs, then there's something wrong with science and/or critical thinking. But you fail to do the one thing every skeptic needs to do: critically consider one's own beliefs. No, you're damn sure of them. They aren't the problem, and you seek to place the "blame" for science's failures to support your beliefs on science.quote:
So do not say to me I do not acknowledge the existence it is science and critical thinking that are my guides
Then why do you consistently reject their guidelines? |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 01/02/2005 : 03:31:25 [Permalink]
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Ok, now I'm bored. When I'm bored, I start having conversations with The Voices.
What The Voices want to know is: since energy cannot destroyed, and since ghosts are alledged to be energy, does not logic tell us that the shade of everything that ever lived and died is wafting about?
A great many people have died over the millenia and that's just counting our species. If we include ancestor and subspecies, we can take it back over 4 millions of years. Lots of people!
But say, why does a ghost have to be a defunct person? Why could it not be a horse? Or a pangolin? Or a dunkleosteous? Or the unfortunate mouse my house 'possum caught, crunched, and gobbled last week; hair, eyeballs and all? One would think that we should be buried (snicker) in ghosts.
Why, The Voices ask, would not the little detector gizmo find evidence of ghosts in a field? Or in my own, favorite haunt (chortle); the Eastern Dismal Swamp? Or might it be more likely that there are so many that the gizmo can't differentiate?
Now, I must go out and make blood sacrifice. The Voices demand it....
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 01/02/2005 : 07:38:25 [Permalink]
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quote:
Sometimes dude it does give a reading...
Only sometimes?
If it fails to give a reading EVERY time you place it next to a human (i.e. it fails to detect "energy" of humans), then how do you reach the conclusion that this device can reliably detect the (in your terms) decaying/residual energy left behind when people die?
Critical thinking, logic, scientific method.... all 100% absent from your assessment of this tool's ability to do what you say it does.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 01/02/2005 : 09:42:15 [Permalink]
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quote:
Storm:
I do not just make up shit Kil..
Residual energy has long been one theory in the ghost field as cause of ghostly phenomenon....
Ok. Then someone ells made that shit up. You just fell for it... |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 01/03/2005 : 08:02:31 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Storm
I have awnsered numerous questions. What is a ghost? Maybe you all should think about it. Other than the dogma of science that guides you almost hindering your advancement think about what I have said Think about what I proposed about energy. In fact it is not hard to comprehend
Hinders our advancement into what? Baseless conjecture?
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I do not profess that hauntings high gauss meters Valiant I have said that before. But I have no evidence they do not.
Arguementum ad Ignorantum
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Well maybe I should refrain from that look at my event with the gauss meter at the house in Tampa.
While today might not ne today At least I have that day to look forward to.
Let me ask you all What is a ghost to you? How would you conduct an investigation if you were asked?
I HAVE Awnsered numerous questions as well as try to shed some light onto the concept of energy and how I feel it plays a role in ghostly phenomenon
You have answered them with appeals to do your logic homework, appeals to ignorance, and unsupported conjecture. You have provided exactly zero in the way of sources for your unsupported assertations.
quote:
Since you all have asked me now it is my turn to ask you What is a Ghost? Remember critical thinking, open mind, contemplate. Those who immediately respond back are not serious but biased, judgemental, predisposed to ideas and ideology and dogma
If you don't know the basics of ghost hunting I suggest you look it up. Just as I researched energy 
You assume that we haven't studied yet again even though we have. This line of fallacious reasoning is really getting old. How about a different tact, like actually posting sources?
Until then, all you have is a series of unsupported assertations and your credibility continues to deteriorate. |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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