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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
 Posted - 01/03/2005 : 08:28:56 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Storm
The big deal is that all types of energy spread out like the energy in that hot pan does (unless somehow they're hindered from doing so)Very interesting ...
Let us not forget though that energy can be hindered or blocked...
Yet the reason for their occurring is the same, the tendency for concentrated energy not to stay localized, to disperse if it has a chance and isn't hindered somehow.
Maybe in our death our energy is blocked hindered somehow in some way that ghostly phenomenon occurs..
Maybe it is even more evident in hauntings that have to do with murder, suicide, etc that somehow this energy is not dispersed but hindered or blocked
Sometimes dude it does give a reading...
Once we went to this antique shop in Bartow {florida}on an investigation
On some antique chairs my meter recorded high electromagnetic fields when no appliances or high electrical fields were around
Residual energy?
Bwahahahahahahahahahaha!
Oh, wait. You're serious.........
OK. Here's the thing, all you've done is repeat the same unsupported conjecture which is the basis for ghost hunting. You also haven't explained why ghosts have an EMF signature when living humans and dead corpses do not. It occurs to me that the Sun has an EMF signature. Does that make it a ghost?
Here's the listing of unsupported assertions that ghost hunting makes.
1) In the case of replay hauntings, the event was so traumatic that it somehow psychically imprinted the emotion and horror of the event onto the surrounding area. As that area changes, the haunting degrades and disappates.
2) In the case of intelligently moved hauntings, the individual whos soul is imprinted upon an area is due to a psychic linkage or familiarity with the area. With changes to the area (such as renovations and repair), the haunting degrades and disappates. Few hauntings last over 100 years.
3) An elemental is an intelligent haunting so far degraded that only the strong emotion which psychically linked it to the area is still present. Only the most violent spirits last this long.
4) As humans are inherently psychic, those which are particularly attunded to their psychic abilities are able to interact with the psychic beings known as ghosts. (This also explains why humans are able to imprint on an area and animals aren't. Spectral animals are blamed on the psychic imprint of the human present.)
The preceding has been the product of years of study of hauntings and metaphysics. Authors used in this have been Hans Holtzer and Harry Price. They are presented as they actually are, unsupported conjecture to explain alledged phenomenon which is non-repeatable, investigated poorly, and not adequately measured. |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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Storm
SFN Regular
USA
708 Posts |
Posted - 01/03/2005 : 09:14:07 [Permalink]
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One of the most difficult things which I have said before is how would we measure this? Should we stand by the people as they are murdered? Suicidal? Just because it is so difficult to measure as sensitive as the subject might be. Does not constitute the theory as false. It leaves it as a anomoly. This I cannot ignore
Valiant Dancer love those theories that you put forth... Even if they are not yours 
Hanz Holzer
Harry Price
Good Men |
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Paulos23
Skeptic Friend
USA
446 Posts |
Posted - 01/03/2005 : 10:31:31 [Permalink]
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Gaaahhhh....
Sorry Valiant Dancer, but I just have to step in here...
quote:
Originally posted by Storm
One of the most difficult things which I have said before is how would we measure this? Should we stand by the people as they are murdered? Suicidal? Just because it is so difficult to measure as sensitive as the subject might be. Does not constitute the theory as false. It leaves it as a anomoly. This I cannot ignore
Valiant Dancer love those theories that you put forth... Even if they are not yours
Hanz Holzer
Harry Price
Good Men
Those where not theories he put forth, those where unsupported assertions. Don't you know the difference?
Theory: Explanation based on on scientific study and rasoning.
Unsupported Assertion: A declaration that is made emphatically with no supporting evidence. |
You can go wrong by being too skeptical as readily as by being too trusting. -- Robert A. Heinlein
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. -- Aldous Huxley |
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Storm
SFN Regular
USA
708 Posts |
Posted - 01/03/2005 : 10:47:28 [Permalink]
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Oh than you there Paulos for catching that...
I was just thinking in future terms....
I would not say unsupported....
Maybe by you...
Maybe not enough support... |
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Paulos23
Skeptic Friend
USA
446 Posts |
Posted - 01/03/2005 : 11:02:30 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Storm
Oh than you there Paulos for catching that...
I was just thinking in future terms....
I would not say unsupported....
Maybe by you...
Maybe not enough support...
Well, until there is scientific evidence that lends creadence to any of them, they are unsupported and should be treaded as such.
I am not saying these things don't happen, but after years of obersvations you think someone would have gotten something concreate. |
You can go wrong by being too skeptical as readily as by being too trusting. -- Robert A. Heinlein
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. -- Aldous Huxley |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 01/03/2005 : 11:30:17 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Paulos23
Gaaahhhh....
Sorry Valiant Dancer, but I just have to step in here...
quote:
Originally posted by Storm
One of the most difficult things which I have said before is how would we measure this? Should we stand by the people as they are murdered? Suicidal? Just because it is so difficult to measure as sensitive as the subject might be. Does not constitute the theory as false. It leaves it as a anomoly. This I cannot ignore
Valiant Dancer love those theories that you put forth... Even if they are not yours
Hanz Holzer
Harry Price
Good Men
Those where not theories he put forth, those where unsupported assertions. Don't you know the difference?
Theory: Explanation based on on scientific study and rasoning.
Unsupported Assertion: A declaration that is made emphatically with no supporting evidence.
No need to appologize, Paulos. It is a fair representation of what I was trying to convey. Storm chooses not to question the unsupported assertations, so there can be no resolution fro her.
I will add one other.
Unsupported conjecture: Declarations of what might be given the premise of the unsupported assertation.
She continues to ignore the lack of gauss readings when in close proximity of corpses and live humans. Why the soul gains the additional ability to produce EM fields after separation from the body is beyond me. It is illogical. |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 01/03/2005 : 11:42:07 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Storm
Oh than you there Paulos for catching that...
I was just thinking in future terms....
I would not say unsupported....
Maybe by you...
Maybe not enough support...
No. I imagine that you wouldn't say unsupported as you have yet to show critical thinking on this subject. You have consistantly failed to address why the soul, when still attached to a physical body does not produce EM field, but when separated from it, it all of a sudden can produce EM fields.
You have consistantly ignored requests for sources for the "scientific" claims. You have consistantly ignored questions by responding that we should in effect do your homework and investigate your claims. I don't know how many times this has to be pointed out to you, but in logic (of which courses are available from any college or community college) the burden of proof is on the claimant. (That's you, Sunshine.)
You consistantly rely on appeals to ignorance to seem worldly or scholarly. You substitute conjecture for proof. You substitute expert opinion from authors who had flawed methodologies for actual scientific study.
Holtzer and Price may have been good men, but their methodology sucked by way of science. Price's study of the Borley Rectory relied heavily on mediums and conjecture. |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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Storm
SFN Regular
USA
708 Posts |
Posted - 01/03/2005 : 11:46:53 [Permalink]
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Valiant Dancer I do question the unsupported Assertions ...
You seem to focus much on gauss meters Valiant....
Ihave never said in much support of gauss meters and measuring...
I have used it myself and have actually found some interesting findings....
One they can be read on humans..
But only on some....
When I went to the antique shopin Bartow on an investigation Imeasured many things with my gauss but nothing ..
Only high readings near electrical sources
Except for a few old chairs which measured just as high as an electrical source although no electrical force was found...
It was measured high though only for a certain distiance in height and in with...
as if the energy was still in the chair
I do not constitute this as paranormal supernatural but just something we have not been able to understand as of yet... |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 01/03/2005 : 11:58:13 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Storm
Valiant Dancer I do question the unsupported Assertions ...
You seem to focus much on gauss meters Valiant....
Ihave never said in much support of gauss meters and measuring...
I have used it myself and have actually found some interesting findings....
One they can be read on humans..
But only on some....
When I went to the antique shopin Bartow on an investigation Imeasured many things with my gauss but nothing ..
Only high readings near electrical sources
Except for a few old chairs which measured just as high as an electrical source although no electrical force was found...
It was measured high though only for a certain distiance in height and in with...
as if the energy was still in the chair
I do not constitute this as paranormal supernatural but just something we have not been able to understand as of yet...
Written like one who consistantly fails to read the entire post, again.
Sorry, without actual scientific basis for the methodology, why do you use it? It is illogical to continually use a methodology which has no basis. You continue to recount entertaining stories of things you investigated, but no methodology comes up to validate your readings nor does it constitute any sort of controls to attempt to validate the medthodology.
You continually believe the unsupported assertations of others and base your unsupported conjecture on it. You do not exhaustively investigate natural causes for the phenomenon experienced. You readily discount any natural causes that you do find.
And you want us to take you seriously enough to expend more effort into validating your conjecture? Where is the logic in that?
Critical thought requires that we analyze claims through evidence supplied. You have provided incomplete evidence at best and presented challenges to investigate in lieu of evidence typically.
It is increasingly obvious that you cannot apply critical thought. I give up. This will be the last post I will direct at you as you cannot analyze full arguements presented to you nor can you impartially analyze your assertations to provide sources for it.
Good luck, you'll need it. |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 01/03/2005 : 12:11:28 [Permalink]
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Simple question, Storm: did you move the chair?
More complex question: did you move the chair and remeasure it? |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Storm
SFN Regular
USA
708 Posts |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 01/03/2005 : 14:24:23 [Permalink]
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Well, if you didn't move the chairs (sorry, I got the singular the first time through) to see if the strange EMF reading "followed" the chairs, you've got no evidence that the chairs themselves were responsible for whatever EMF readings you got.
This, the most basic scientific procedure you could have done, and you missed the opportunity. Without it, the idea that the source of the EMF reading was the chairs is unsupported speculation. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Storm
SFN Regular
USA
708 Posts |
Posted - 01/03/2005 : 14:54:19 [Permalink]
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While you may be right in the fact that I did not move the chairs. I did measure the distances from the chair..
Seeing how far out the gauss was effected..
So next time Dave I will move the chair..
This does not mean though that I did not try scientific to see what was going on? What anomoly might be causing this measure. Something very natural I suppose
I must say I do not go into Houses supposedly to haunted with any more conviction that it is natural or supernatural..
I try to go in open minded to both possibilities...
Look what I got...
A meter that moves by itself? |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 01/03/2005 : 19:14:37 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Storm
While you may be right in the fact that I did not move the chairs. I did measure the distances from the chair..
Seeing how far out the gauss was effected..
Did you measure above the chairs? How about underneath them? Between them? Did you measure the same area, one floor up? How about on the floor below?
If we assume a point magnetic source, the strange readings ought to extend in a roughly spherical shape from the source, and they ought to drop off with the cube of the distance.quote:
So next time Dave I will move the chair..
Good. Don't forget to re-measure both the chairs and the empty space.quote:
This does not mean though that I did not try scientific to see what was going on?
No. I could make many measurements of the field around a major transformer, and still have no idea how those fields are generated or what the transformer is. Science is about explaining the world. Measurements don't explain anything, they only provide us with clues as to what the explanation might be. Science isn't a bunch of sterile facts.quote:
What anomoly might be causing this measure. Something very natural I suppose
Maybe, maybe not. You'll never find out if you don't do the science needed to learn the reason for the EMF readings.quote:
I must say I do not go into Houses supposedly to haunted with any more conviction that it is natural or supernatural..
I try to go in open minded to both possibilities...
That's fine, but going in without trying making an effective attempt to learn doesn't answer any questions, and you wind up with the same equality of possibilities.quote:
Look what I got...
A meter that moves by itself?
You don't know that the meter moved by itself. You didn't see it move. Once again, you're assuming that which is not in evidence. You assumed that the chairs were causing the EMF readings, and you assume that the meter moved "by itself." The proper conclusion for both, with your limited knowledge, is "I don't know," but you keep jumping at the paranormal "brass rings." This is why you're considered a "woo-woo," despite your protestations of rationality. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Storm
SFN Regular
USA
708 Posts |
Posted - 01/10/2005 : 19:05:41 [Permalink]
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quote:
Entropy. The Second Law of Thermodynamics. That is why your energy fantasy is implausible
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In many real-world chemicals and things the second law can be obstructed or hindered for millions of years.
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Blockage of the second law is absolutely necessary for us to be alive and happy. Not one of the complex chemical substances in our body and few in the things we enjoy would exist for a microsecond if the second law wasn't obstructed. Its tendency is never eliminated but, fortunately for us, there are a huge number of compounds in which it is blocked for our lifetimes and even far longer
Doesn't Sound implausabile to me...
Especially taking into account The Second Law of Thermodynamics |
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