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chaloobi
SFN Regular
1620 Posts |
 Posted - 12/22/2004 : 08:35:51
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Ok, whenever you label something a conspiracy theory, it loses credibility. So the theory that the Republicans stole the election loses credibility right out of the starting gate merely because of the category it falls into. So what do the skeptics think?
The one piece of evidence I find that makes me scratch my head and wonder is the exit polls. From what I read, the following is true of the exit poll data, past and present.
1. Exit poll data has always been a reliable predictor of how states will go when the final talley is made - until to a lesser extent the 2000 election and a much greater extent the 2004 election.
2. From what I've read the exit poll inaccuracies were always in favor of Kerry in states that in the final talley went for Bush.
Does anyone think that this is not all by itself very suspicous?
Here's some other good stuff I've heard - mostly from an article I read in Harpers.
- There's a pile of annecdotal evidence of people seeing their votes marked a different way than they voted on touch screens.
- Most of the counties of Florida, in the final talley, showed more people voting Republican than were registered Republicans in the county. Sure this is possible. . . . but nowhere was the opposite true.
- There are instances of more people voting Republican than there were voters in the district.
Consider how easy it would be to steal an election in the US with automated systems that leave no paper record. In the US, voter turnout is always lower than the number of registered voters. So you will never have a situation where rigging the election would mean more votes than registered voters. You can just add a few, or change a few, in an automated system and nobody's the wiser. You make it so your guy barely wins, as in the Ohio-wins-the-election scenario.
The one point that seems to call all this in question is how difficult it would be to keep this secret. Wouldn't someone who knows what's going on go public or tip off a reporter? How could they pull it off and have everyone involved keep quiet?
So again, what do you skeptics think? Is this a hair-brained conspiracy theory? Does anyone think it's possible that this happened?
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-Chaloobi
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Paulos23
Skeptic Friend
USA
446 Posts |
Posted - 12/22/2004 : 09:05:30 [Permalink]
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Ever since they started talking about electronic voting I knew this was possible. From the discription of many of the voting machines it would be easy to do that. Heck, I can design a better voting machine that is audible and I am just a two-bit programmer.
So it is possible, but does that give it credence? No, not on that point alone. The one that gives it credence to me is the fact that they had districts with more votes there their where registered voters. That it a big red flag to me and I haven't heard an explanation for it yet.
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You can go wrong by being too skeptical as readily as by being too trusting. -- Robert A. Heinlein
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. -- Aldous Huxley |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 12/23/2004 : 02:46:05 [Permalink]
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Outside the realm of possibility?
No.
But, and this is a big BUT (no offense), there needs to be evidence to prove it. And that evidence is highly unlikely to appear. How many states have republican Sec of State in charge of the elections?
In a government controlled by the party who is potentially the cheating party, this evidence is going to be difficult to come by. Please note all the major distractions occuring right now that prevent the media from even reporting on the possibility of election fraud. Our new "endless war" for one.
I think there needs to be a thorough investigation. I don't see one ever happening.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 01/01/2005 : 15:07:18 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dude
Outside the realm of possibility?
No.
But, and this is a big BUT (no offense), there needs to be evidence to prove it. And that evidence is highly unlikely to appear. .....
I think there needs to be a thorough investigation. I don't see one ever happening.
Some investigating is/has being/been done but the mainstream media and the apathetic &/or misled public will never pay attention to it. There is a general belief that election fraud is not something that occurs in the USA. That is a hurdle we will not surpass any time soon.
As to conspiracy theories and evidence, there actually is a lot of evidence that multiple factors did affect the outcome besides votes. The exit polls are evidence, and so are some pretty convincing statistical analyses that showed Bush's % of votes varied in direct correlation to whether or not electronic voting machines were used when other variables were controlled for.
The uneven distribution of voting machines has never been properly addressed by the press. Not once have I heard the question asked, let alone answered, who made the decisions as to where those machines were placed. The same goes for provisional ballot supplies.
This information will come out. But it will mostly be ignored by the media and by a public that believes all the usual myths about the USA, "It can't happen here". |
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Doomar
SFN Regular
USA
714 Posts |
Posted - 01/09/2005 : 11:30:14 [Permalink]
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As to conspiracy theories and evidence, there actually is a lot of evidence that multiple factors did affect the outcome besides votes. The exit polls are evidence, and so are some pretty convincing statistical analyses that showed Bush's % of votes varied in direct correlation to whether or not electronic voting machines were used when other variables were controlled for.
The uneven distribution of voting machines has never been properly addressed by the press. Not once have I heard the question asked, let alone answered, who made the decisions as to where those machines were placed. The same goes for provisional ballot supplies.
This information will come out. But it will mostly be ignored by the media and by a public that believes all the usual myths about the USA, "It can't happen here".
Some excellant comments. Thank you! |
Mark 10:27 (NKJV) 27But Jesus looked at them and said, “With men it is impossible, but not with God; for with God all things are possible.”
www.pastorsb.com.htm |
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