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Siberia
SFN Addict
Brazil
2322 Posts |
 Posted - 01/02/2005 : 09:15:49 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Storm
It is time for a New Age ...
The Age of Enlightenment....
The Age of Reason...
The Age of Science....
The Age of.....
We must continue to evolve ....
Not to stagnate...
Not to become a true believer...
This is where the little quote I've claimed as my favorite a long time ago comes back to mind: whatever, dude (not Dude, though ). |
"Why are you afraid of something you're not even sure exists?"
- The Kovenant, Via Negativa
"People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs."
-- unknown
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Storm
SFN Regular
USA
708 Posts |
Posted - 01/02/2005 : 16:44:24 [Permalink]
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You have a firm belief that if a situation involves an unknown factor, then there must absolutly be a possibility of a supernatural or paranormal explanation.
This is false.
What you claim of me is false Doc I never claimed that. I just think that many things that are labeled paranormal are actually normal. i.e. Ghosts.
But this does not prove consciouss life afte death...
What God are you talking about Renae?
If it is the christian God than that is not mine
I do not puposefully misinterpet anything Doc
I truly try to understand, Reason, Research
I am not as stupid, naive, as you may think I am..
I have evolved and continue to do so..
So what were you tying to convey ...
Sounds like New Age Do you mean the New age groups/
Forgive me if I understood I was thinking when you meant New Age I though you meant in Science ...
I shall remain on my track in believing that ghostly phenomenon has to do with energy possibly decomposing energy...
Say what you want but when it comes out to be true don'y forget who brought it forth first
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 01/02/2005 : 18:47:20 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Storm
I shall remain on my track in believing that ghostly phenomenon has to do with energy possibly decomposing energy...
But, energy doesn't decompose. That's what Einstein told us.quote:
Say what you want but when it comes out to be true don'y forget who brought it forth first
It's a deal, so long as you let me know when you're on your deathbed so we can come a gloat if it has not been shown to be true by then. After all, it's not much of a deal if only one side gets to gloat, right?
The arrogance of this "predicition" is astounding. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Storm
SFN Regular
USA
708 Posts |
Posted - 01/02/2005 : 19:35:31 [Permalink]
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If it does not decompose than what Dave?
Define it for me plain and simple
One must be arrogant aometimes
Gloat all you want...
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 01/02/2005 : 19:50:48 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Storm
If it does not decompose than what Dave?
Then what? Then I tell you that the roll-eyes are very tiring. If you're so put-upon by my responses, you don't have to read them.
Energy gets transferred from one thing to another, and that's it. It doesn't "decompose." You are the one who brought Einstein into this discussion, anyway, quoting him as saying "energy doesn't die" or some such. You should know what you're talking about if you're going to quote someone in support of your position.quote:
Define it for me plain and simple
How many more definitions do you want? You've already been given two that I remember. I'm the one who should be rolling my eyes here, not you.quote:
One must be arrogant aometimes
Yeah, but it just makes you look like a jackass when you're arrogant but can't define what it is you're arrogant about.quote:
Gloat all you want...
If the "deal" is still on, I will. If, on the other hand, you choose to face reality, I won't gloat at all, as that would be cruel. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Storm
SFN Regular
USA
708 Posts |
Posted - 01/02/2005 : 20:32:41 [Permalink]
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The rolling eyes are only for not understanding ,maybe not knowing, wondering...
it is by know means meant to insult you or anyone. Maybe decompose was not the right word ...
I know that energy gets transferred...
although by definition decomposing can be a form of transference...
can it not...
1 : to separate into constituent parts or elements or into simpler compounds
The rolling eyes to me and when in my posts is not meant to insult |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 01/02/2005 : 20:46:19 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Storm
The rolling eyes are only for not understanding ,maybe not knowing, wondering...
it is by know means meant to insult you or anyone.
"Smileys" are meant to help convey emotion. Rolling your eyes at someone typically indicates exasperation with that person; an "oh, not again" feeling; a "why is this person talking to me" kind of thing.
You're a mother: you should know this. Isn't "don't roll your eyes at me" a part of your standard repartee with your kids yet? Maybe they have to be teenagers before that happens.
Anyway, thanks for letting us all know that you're using a smiley in a decidedly non-standard way.quote:
Maybe decompose was not the right word ...
I know that energy gets transferred...
although by definition decomposing can be a form of transference...
can it not...
1 : to separate into constituent parts or elements or into simpler compounds
Yeah, but all the energy within those parts is still within those parts, or has dispersed as heat as decomposition occurs (compost heaps get warm). |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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dv82matt
SFN Regular
760 Posts |
Posted - 01/02/2005 : 20:59:44 [Permalink]
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Storm.
I find myself having difficulty decoding some of your posts.
Energy does not decompose but it can be changed from on form to another. Perhaps you are alluding to the idea of spiritual energy which manifests as ghosts. This is an interesting idea but unfortunately it is unsupported by empirical evidence so you are not likely to find any skeptics willing to entertain the idea.
I suspect that you are reasoning from a fundamental assumption that ghosts or spiritual energy do exist and then interpreting various events and observations as examples of that assumtion. For example suppose I am thinking about an old aquaintence and then surprise surprise the phone rings and it is her. If I believed that telepathy was a "self-evident" truth then it would be reasonable for me to conclude that my thinking about her caused her to pick up the telephone and call me. There is no empirical evidence that telepathy does exist but since to me it is a "self-evident" truth it is simple to counter this by saying "absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" besides I have just generated my own personal evidence telepathy is valid. In this way I could argue from any arbitrary assumption and convince myself (though probably not others) that it was valid.
The point is that while you are entitled to your beliefs, by definition skeptics follow the evidence and sound reasoning from the evidence. If you hope to convince a skeptic you must present evidence for your beliefs.
Perhaps your intention is merley to share your beliefs. If so then feel free but don't expect much agreement with your views on spirituality or ghosts. I've noticed that this forum seems to be frequented by skeptics.
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Storm
SFN Regular
USA
708 Posts |
Posted - 01/03/2005 : 08:29:38 [Permalink]
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Then maybe Dave it is in the dispersed heat...not rolling my eyes only questioning
I am strictly talking science here ....
not the paranormal or the supernatural...
My beliefs in life after death are completely different ...
But what if we talk ghosts in a scientific way....
not in conscious life after death....
Please no one be affended by my I only mean it to question, to think there is just no real thinking smiley
Rolling eyes does not go in my family and I have 4 kids....
so if you are a regular here you will know that is not an insult |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 01/03/2005 : 12:00:54 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Storm
Then maybe Dave it is in the dispersed heat...
I am strictly talking science here ....
not the paranormal or the supernatural...
But what if we talk ghosts in a scientific way....
Okay, let's talk ghosts in a completely scientific way. To do so, we must begin by precisely defining what a "ghost" is. Can you do so in an absolutely scientific way? You haven't, yet. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Siberia
SFN Addict
Brazil
2322 Posts |
Posted - 01/03/2005 : 12:58:33 [Permalink]
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Just a footnote: Storm keeps asking what's a ghost to us.
I'm one of those people that think an electron is an electron, a proton is a proton and a quark is a quark. I'm pretty much sure all (decent) physicists agree on what a proton is, what an electron is and what a quark is, as much as everyone knows what a circle is and what a triangle is.
If something's as subjective to a point you ask what it is to US, what you, me or anyone say is simply irrelevant. For you it may be residual energy (whatever the heck that means), for me it is a figment of very gullible imaginations. Who's right?
There's where science comes in. Until you prove there's such thing as residual energy, my hypothesis (figment of your gullible imagination) is as valid as yours (residual energy). And both are just pure speculation. Got it? |
"Why are you afraid of something you're not even sure exists?"
- The Kovenant, Via Negativa
"People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs."
-- unknown
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Renae
SFN Regular
543 Posts |
Posted - 01/04/2005 : 06:38:53 [Permalink]
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Storm, against my better judgment, I'm gonna try one more time here. And then, if you would, please don't pretend to misunderstand me when what's really true is that you simply don't have a logical argument.
I was raised to believe in a God that was NOT angry or vindictive. The God my parents believed in did not punish, did not judge, and did not control. This God was like a profoundly loving father who felt disappointment and sadness when people did bad things. Instead of causing earthquakes and killing innocents, He wept. And it was in His sorrow that we were to find our own conscience, our own regret, and our own desire to change. How much more powerful this inner change is when it arises from a genuine desire to be good, rather than from a fear of punishment?
I realize this God probably bears no resemblence to the God of the fundies, or the God of the Old Testament, and I don't care. This is the God that I see in my darkest moments and I care not a whit how others perceive Him. I trust my personal truth above a 5,000 year old book of fables, which is probably why I will never embrace organized religion.
There is so much hatred and judgment in this world, Storm. Why would you embrace a God that cannot rise above it?
What do you think "grace" means? Or forgiveness? |
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Storm
SFN Regular
USA
708 Posts |
Posted - 01/04/2005 : 14:44:23 [Permalink]
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What God do you think I worship Renae? Not the Hebrew or Christian one. Who is your God? I was once on my way to Gettysburg Pennyslavania to become a lutheran pastor. but my paths and beliefs have changed. I have gone back to my ancestral roots. I worship a pantheon of gods and goddesses from the nordic/germanic line. My Gods and Goddesses focus on nature, psyche, inner strenghth.
Did you know hell was the nordic land of the dead? Not a place where evil people went.
Grace to me is unconditional love one must feel for humanity. It is the outward expression of this unconditional love. Men like Jesus posessed grace.
Forgivness as well is an expression of unconditional love..
To be healthy in body and psyche one must forgive...
To carry burdens effects both the mind and the body and the spirit
All of us fall short at some time in our life, we take it out on others, especially those we love ..
Whether you want to label these things as sins..
I do not think so...
Although there are others who commit awful atrosities in this world...
Should they be forgiven....
Ones who hurt little children...
I say kill the M@#$%R F*&^%$s and let God sought em out !
This is why I can no longer worship the Christian God...
One must be all forgiving...
Last time we had someone like that around they hung him up on a cross... |
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Siberia
SFN Addict
Brazil
2322 Posts |
Posted - 01/04/2005 : 15:19:27 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Renae
I was raised to believe in a God that was NOT angry or vindictive. The God my parents believed in did not punish, did not judge, and did not control. This God was like a profoundly loving father who felt disappointment and sadness when people did bad things. Instead of causing earthquakes and killing innocents, He wept. And it was in His sorrow that we were to find our own conscience, our own regret, and our own desire to change. How much more powerful this inner change is when it arises from a genuine desire to be good, rather than from a fear of punishment?
So was I.
But still, no matter how much I try to believe, I can't. I simply can't have the faith that, says, my mother has. It's against my nature, I think. |
"Why are you afraid of something you're not even sure exists?"
- The Kovenant, Via Negativa
"People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs."
-- unknown
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 01/04/2005 : 15:34:31 [Permalink]
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From the RR forum, second post: quote:
Simply put, God spared a whole lot of "innocents", a life time of suffering.
third post: quote:
well put
Excuse me? That is disgusting. Does poster #2 even have a clue what these people's lives were like? Suffering? Well gee, I'm surprised they weren't all out there killing themselves right and left.
And of course the people who lost everything only need to turn to Jesus to heal their pain.
No wonder some people hate Americans. |
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