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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 01/08/2005 : 03:51:26 [Permalink]
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A priest is a man who is called "Father" by everyone except his own children, who are obliged to call him "Uncle."
-- Italian saying
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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Doomar
SFN Regular
USA
714 Posts |
Posted - 01/09/2005 : 12:04:52 [Permalink]
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"God who gave us life, gave us liberty. And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are a gift from God? That they are not to be violated but with His wrath? Indeed I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just, that His justice cannot sleep forever...."
"I swear upon the altar of God, eternal hostility to every form of tyranny over the mind of man."
Thomas Jefferson |
Mark 10:27 (NKJV) 27But Jesus looked at them and said, “With men it is impossible, but not with God; for with God all things are possible.”
www.pastorsb.com.htm |
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Doomar
SFN Regular
USA
714 Posts |
Posted - 01/09/2005 : 12:06:05 [Permalink]
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"The reason that Christianity is the best friend of Government is because Christianity is the only religion that changes the heart."
Who said this? Any guess? |
Mark 10:27 (NKJV) 27But Jesus looked at them and said, “With men it is impossible, but not with God; for with God all things are possible.”
www.pastorsb.com.htm |
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Doomar
SFN Regular
USA
714 Posts |
Posted - 01/09/2005 : 12:21:30 [Permalink]
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"… at the time of the adoption of the Constitution, and of the amendment to it, now under consideration, the general, if not the universal, sentiment in America was, that Christianity ought to receive encouragement from the State, so far as such encouragement was not incompatible with the private rights of conscience, and the freedom of religious worship. An attempt to level all religions, and to make it a matter of state policy to hold all in utter indifference, would have created universal disapprobation, if not universal indignation." 2 Supreme Court Justice Joseph Story (1838)
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Mark 10:27 (NKJV) 27But Jesus looked at them and said, “With men it is impossible, but not with God; for with God all things are possible.”
www.pastorsb.com.htm |
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Doomar
SFN Regular
USA
714 Posts |
Posted - 01/09/2005 : 12:24:31 [Permalink]
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"How can there be respect for private property and every other right, how can there be men in office who restrain themselves from power grabbing and every other abuse, if there is no solid and enduring belief in right and wrong?
Thus, religious conviction is vital to the health of the state."
Steve Ferrell(Idaho)
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Mark 10:27 (NKJV) 27But Jesus looked at them and said, “With men it is impossible, but not with God; for with God all things are possible.”
www.pastorsb.com.htm |
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Doomar
SFN Regular
USA
714 Posts |
Posted - 01/09/2005 : 12:29:28 [Permalink]
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Mr. President, The small progress we have made after four or five weeks' close attendance and continual reasonings with each other — our different sentiments on almost every question, several of the last producing as many noes as ayes — is, me—thinks, a melancholy proof of the imperfection of the human understanding. We, indeed, seem to feel our own want of political wisdom since we have been running about in search of it. We have gone back to ancient history for models of government, and examined the different forms of those republics which, having been formed with the seeds of their own dissolution, now no longer exist. And we have viewed modern States all round Europe, but find none of their Constitutions suitable to our circumstances.
"In this situation of this assembly, groping as it were in the dark to find political truth, and scarce able to distinguish it when presented to us, how has it happened, sir, that we have not hitherto once thought of humbly applying to the Father of lights, to illuminate our understandings? In the beginning of the contest with Great Britain, when we were sensible of danger, we had daily prayer in this room for the divine protection. Our prayers, sir, were heard; and they were graciously answered. All of us who were engaged in the struggle must have observed frequent instances of a superintending Providence in our favor. To that kind Providence we owe this happy opportunity of consulting in peace on the means of establishing our future national felicity. And have we now forgotten that powerful Friend? Or do we imagine that we no longer need His assistance? I have lived, sir, a long time; and, the longer I live, the more convincing proofs I see of this truth — that God governs in the affairs of men. And, if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without His aid? We have been assured, sir, in the sacred writings that "except the Lord build the house they labor in vain that build it." I firmly believe this; and I also believe that without His concurring aid we shall succeed in this political building no better than the builders of Babel. We shall be divided by our little partial local interests, our projects will be confounded, and we ourselves shall become a reproach and byword to future ages. And, what is worse, mankind may hereafter from this unfortunate instance despair of establishing governments by human wisdom, and leave it to chance, war and conquest.
"I therefore beg leave to move that henceforth prayers imploring the assistance of Heaven, and its blessings on our deliberations, be held in this Assembly every morning before we proceed to business, and that one or more of the clergy of this city be requested to officiate in that service." 8
Who said (or wrote) this and to whom was it said? |
Mark 10:27 (NKJV) 27But Jesus looked at them and said, “With men it is impossible, but not with God; for with God all things are possible.”
www.pastorsb.com.htm |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 01/09/2005 : 14:51:07 [Permalink]
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Ohhhh.... I can quote-mine also! It's a fun way to dig up out-of-context statements that appear to support your arguments, and are not easily refuted without some research to examine the entirety of the quote and the context it was made in!
Fun!
quote:
"Say nothing of my religion. It is known to my god and myself alone."
-- Thomas Jefferson, in a letter to John Adams, 11 January 1817, in Lester Cappon, ed. The Adams-Jefferson Letters, (1959) p. 506, quoted from Jeremy Koselak, "The Exaltation of a Reasonable Deity: Thomas Jefferson's Critique of Christianity"
quote:
"[Our] principles [are] founded on the immovable basis of equal right and reason."
-- Thomas Jefferson, to James Sullivan, 1797. ME 9:379
quote:
"All, too, will bear in mind this sacred principle, that though the will of the majority is in all cases to prevail, that will, to be rightful, must be reasonable; that the minority possess their equal rights, which equal laws must protect, and to violate which would be oppression."
-- Thomas Jefferson, First Inaugural Address, March 4, 1801
quote:
"It is surely time for men to think for themselves, and to throw off the authority of names so artificially magnified."
-- Thomas Jefferson, letter to William Short, August 4, 1820
quote:
"I am really mortified to be told that, in the United States of America, a fact like this can become a subject of inquiry, and of criminal inquiry too, as an offence against religion; that a question about the sale of a book can be carried before the civil magistrate. Is this then our freedom of religion? and are we to have a censor whose imprimatur shall say what books may be sold, and what we may buy? And who is thus to dogmatize religious opinions for our citizens? Whose foot is to be the measure to which ours are all to be cut or stretched? Is a priest to be our inquisitor, or shall a layman, simple as ourselves, set up his reason as the rule for what we are to read, and what we must believe? It is an insult to our citizens to question whether they are rational beings or not, and blasphemy against religion to suppose it cannot stand the test of truth and reason."
-- Thomas Jefferson, letter to N. G. Dufief, Philadelphia bookseller, 1814, after being prosecuted for selling de Becourt's book, Sur la Création du Monde, un Systême d'Organisation Primitive, which Jefferson himself had purchased
quote:
"Because religious belief, or non-belief, is such an important part of every person's life, freedom of religion affects every individual. State churches that use government power to support themselves and force their views on persons of other faiths undermine all our civil rights. Moreover, state support of the church tends to make the clergy unresponsive to the people and leads to corruption within religion. Erecting the "wall of separation between church and state," therefore, is absolutely essential in |
Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Doomar
SFN Regular
USA
714 Posts |
Posted - 01/09/2005 : 15:49:36 [Permalink]
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| Thank you, Dude. Some excellant stuff! |
Mark 10:27 (NKJV) 27But Jesus looked at them and said, “With men it is impossible, but not with God; for with God all things are possible.”
www.pastorsb.com.htm |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 01/10/2005 : 08:54:45 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Doomar
Prayer is free speech when done by an individual.
That is just what I'm talking about, individuals praying in public, not forced or coerced, by by there own motivations. Is the attempt to stifle any individual teacher or administrator praying in public actually a violation of their free speech rights?
Did you just ignore the rest of it, Doomar? This type of religious activity has been regularly upheld as a fundamental right. What was forbidden was institutionally led prayer. |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 01/10/2005 : 08:57:21 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Doomar
"God who gave us life, gave us liberty. And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are a gift from God? That they are not to be violated but with His wrath? Indeed I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just, that His justice cannot sleep forever...."
"I swear upon the altar of God, eternal hostility to every form of tyranny over the mind of man."
Thomas Jefferson
Dave W has asked for actual cases where teachers were disciplined for praying on their own time. It is rude of you to ignore it.
I'm thinking subverted support at this point. |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 01/10/2005 : 09:24:49 [Permalink]
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In the attitude of silence the soul finds the path in an clearer light, and what is elusive and deceptive resolves itself into crystal clearness. Our life is a long and arduous quest after Truth. -- Mahatma Gandhi
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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| Edited by - filthy on 01/10/2005 09:28:09 |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 01/10/2005 : 10:26:05 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Valiant Dancer
I'm thinking subverted support at this point.
Don't forget poisoning the well. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 01/10/2005 : 12:09:33 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.
quote:
Originally posted by Valiant Dancer
I'm thinking subverted support at this point.
Don't forget poisoning the well.
Yup, prejudical language as a side product.
What do you think he'll respond with?
Changing the subject?
Affirming the consequent?
Illicit major?
Form over content?
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Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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Wendy
SFN Regular
USA
614 Posts |
Posted - 01/10/2005 : 12:37:54 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Valiant Dancer
What do you think he'll respond with?
I predict he will abandon this thread, create yet another Member Name (maybe Doomar___), and start a new topic in which he will post repeatedly - mostly by quote mining.
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Millions long for immortality who don't know what to do on a rainy afternoon.
-- Susan Ertz
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 01/10/2005 : 12:44:13 [Permalink]
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I decided that it was not wisdom that enabled [poets] to write their poetry, but a kind of instinct or inspiration, such as you find in seers and prophets who deliver all their sublime messages without knowing in the least what they mean. -- Socrates
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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