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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
 Posted - 01/10/2005 : 17:45:09 [Permalink]
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quote:
"How can there be respect for private property and every other right, how can there be men in office who restrain themselves from power grabbing and every other abuse, if there is no solid and enduring belief in right and wrong?
Thus, religious conviction is vital to the health of the state."
Steve Ferrell(Idaho)
This statement is worthy only of contempt. It takes a truly monumental idiot to think that religion is the source of ethics.
Same for that other quote old Doomar put up there about christianity being the only religion that can change a persons heart...
I have to restrain myself from lashing out at this type of statement. Arrogant bastards.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 01/10/2005 : 17:52:02 [Permalink]
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I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth. -- Umberto Eco
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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Doomar
SFN Regular
USA
714 Posts |
Posted - 01/15/2005 : 21:40:50 [Permalink]
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Dave W has asked for actual cases where teachers were disciplined for praying on their own time. It is rude of you to ignore it.
I'm thinking subverted support at this point.
If Dave W is inclined to learn about this, he has the ability to look it up himself, I think. But, what the hey, I spent 2 minutes and found this:
In Phoenix Arizona, Sherri Steckel, a tenured Bethune Elementary school teacher, was fired in Jan. 1993 without warning on charges of unprofessional conduct for "religious activities." Behaviors listed by the Phoenix Elementary Board of Education as "unprofessional" included folding her hands in what they called "prayer position" during the in-class moment of silence. She was also accused of daily praying in class because one fifth grade student thought he heard her whisper a prayer once during the moment of silence. Steckel did admit to praying for two students during non-instructional time in the school courtyard, playing instrumental praise music and a patriotic album with songs like "God Bless America" on it while students did seat work, and once using a lesson which centered on the biblical message of honoring father and mother. According to one of her former colleagues, Steckel was "a top reading teacher in the district. They brought in people from all over the district to observe her because she got top reading scores with children." [The Arizona Republic, Feb. 26, 1993, cited in Religious Rights Watch, June 1993.]
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Mark 10:27 (NKJV) 27But Jesus looked at them and said, “With men it is impossible, but not with God; for with God all things are possible.”
www.pastorsb.com.htm |
| Edited by - Doomar on 01/15/2005 21:44:29 |
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Doomar
SFN Regular
USA
714 Posts |
Posted - 01/15/2005 : 21:46:26 [Permalink]
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(4) Monday Evening
Most Gracious Lord God, from whom proceedeth every good and perfect gift, I offer to thy divine majesty my unfeigned praise & thanksgiving for all thy mercies towards me. Thou mad'st me at first and hst ever since sustained the work of thy own hand; thou gav'st thy Son to die for me; and hast given me assurance of salvation, upon my repentance and sincerely endeavoring to conform my life to his holy precepts and example. Thou art pleased to lengthen out to me the time of repentance and to move me to it by thy spirit and by the word, by thy mercies, and by thy judgments; out of a deepness of thy mercies, and by my own unworthiness, I do appear before thee at this time; I have sinned and done very wickedly, be merciful to me, O God, and pardon me for Jesus Christ sake; instruct me in the particulars of my duty, and suffer me not to be tempted above what thou givest me strength to bear. Take care, I pray thee of my affairs and more and more direct me in thy truth, defend me from my enemies, especially my spiritual ones. Suffer me not to be drawn from thee, by the blandishments of the world, carnal desires, the cunning of the devil, or deceitfulness of sin. work in me thy good will and pleasure, and discharge my mind from all things that are displeasing to thee, of all ill will and discontent, wrath and bitterness, pride & vain conceit of myself, and render me charitable, pure, holy, patient and heavenly minded. be with me at the hour of death; dispose me for it, and deliver me from the slavish fear of it, and make me willing and fit to die whenever thou shalt call me hence. Bless our rulers in church and state. bless O Lord the whole race of mankind, and let the world be filled with the knowledge of Thee and thy son Jesus Christ. Pity the sick, the poor, the weak, the needy, the widows and fatherless, and all that morn or are borken in heart, and be merciful to them according to their several necessities. bless my friends and grant me grace to forgive my enemies as heartily as I desire forgiveness of Thee my hevenly Father. I beseech thee to defend me this night from all evil, and do more for me than I ccan think or ask, for Jesus Christ sake, in whose most holy name & words, I continue to pray, Our Father, & c.
Taken from George Washington's prayer journal |
Mark 10:27 (NKJV) 27But Jesus looked at them and said, “With men it is impossible, but not with God; for with God all things are possible.”
www.pastorsb.com.htm |
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Doomar
SFN Regular
USA
714 Posts |
Posted - 01/15/2005 : 21:55:41 [Permalink]
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"BECAUSE no People can be truly happy, though under the greatest Enjoyment of Civil Liberties, if abridged of the Freedom of their Consciences, as to their Religious Profession and Worship: And Almighty God being the only Lord of Conscience, Father of Lights and Spirits; and the Author as well as Object of all divine Knowledge, Faith and Worship, who only doth enlighten the Minds, and persuade and convince the Understandings of People, I do hereby grant and declare, That no Person or Persons, inhabiting in this Province or Territories, who shall confess and acknowledge One almighty God, the Creator, Upholder and Ruler of the World; and profess him or themselves obliged to live quietly under the Civil Government, shall be in any Case molested or prejudiced, in his or their Person or Estate, because of his or their conscientious Persuasion or Practice, nor be compelled to frequent or maintain any religious Worship, Place or Ministry, contrary to his or their Mind, or to do or super any other Act or Thing, contrary to their religious Persuasion.
AND that all Persons who also profess to believe in Jesus Christ, the Saviour of the World, shall be capable (notwithstanding their other Persuasions and Practices in Point of Conscience and Religion) to serve this Government in any Capacity, both legislatively and executively, he or they solemnly promising, when lawfully required, Allegiance to the King as Sovereign, and Fidelity to the Proprietary and Governor, and taking the Attests as now established by the Law made at New-Castle, in the Year One Thousand and Seven Hundred, entitled, An Act directing the Attests of several Officers and Ministers, as now amended and confirmed this present Assembly. "
Taken from: Charter of Privileges Granted by William Penn, esq.
to the Inhabitants of Pennsylvania and Territories, October 28, 1701 (1)
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Mark 10:27 (NKJV) 27But Jesus looked at them and said, “With men it is impossible, but not with God; for with God all things are possible.”
www.pastorsb.com.htm |
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Doomar
SFN Regular
USA
714 Posts |
Posted - 01/15/2005 : 22:00:30 [Permalink]
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ART. 22. Every person who shall be chosen a member of either house, or appointed to any office or place of trust, before taking his seat, or entering upon the execution of his office, shall take the following oath, or affirmation, if conscientiously scrupulous of taking an oath, to wit:
" I, A B. will bear true allegiance to the Delaware State, submit to its constitution and laws, and do no act wittingly whereby the freedom thereof may be prejudiced."
And also make and subscribe the following declaration, to wit:
" I, A B. do profess faith in God the Father, and in Jesus Christ His only Son, and in the Holy Ghost, one God, blessed for evermore; and I do acknowledge the holy scriptures of the Old and New Testament to be given by divine inspiration."
And all officers shall also take an oath of office.
In what state of the union was this article part of their constitution? (only 13 to guess)
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Mark 10:27 (NKJV) 27But Jesus looked at them and said, “With men it is impossible, but not with God; for with God all things are possible.”
www.pastorsb.com.htm |
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Doomar
SFN Regular
USA
714 Posts |
Posted - 01/15/2005 : 22:02:59 [Permalink]
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XVIII. That no person shall ever, within this Colony, be deprived of the inestimable privilege of worshipping Almighty God in a manner, agreeable to the dictates of his own conscience; nor, under any presence whatever, be compelled to attend any place of worship, contrary to his own faith and judgment; nor shall any person, within this Colony, ever be obliged to pay tithes, taxes, or any other rates, for the purpose of building or repairing any other church or churches, place or places of worship, or for the maintenance of any minister or ministry, contrary to what he believes to be right, or has deliberately or voluntarily engaged himself to perform.
An article taken from: Constitution of New Jersey; 1776 (1)
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Mark 10:27 (NKJV) 27But Jesus looked at them and said, “With men it is impossible, but not with God; for with God all things are possible.”
www.pastorsb.com.htm |
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Doomar
SFN Regular
USA
714 Posts |
Posted - 01/15/2005 : 22:06:53 [Permalink]
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"We therefore, the Representatives of the United States of America, in general Congress assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions, do, in the name and by the authority of the good people of these colonies, solemnly publish and declare, That these united colonies are, and of right ought to be, free and independent States; that they are absolved from all allegiance to the British Crown, and that all political connection between them and the State of Great Britain is, and ought to be, totally dissolved; and that as free and independent States they have full power to levy war, conclude peace, contract alliances, establish commerce, and to do all other acts and things which independent States may of right do. And for the support of this declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes, and our sacred honor."
I'm guessing the ACLU would not be happy with this declaration. Are you?
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Mark 10:27 (NKJV) 27But Jesus looked at them and said, “With men it is impossible, but not with God; for with God all things are possible.”
www.pastorsb.com.htm |
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Doomar
SFN Regular
USA
714 Posts |
Posted - 01/15/2005 : 22:11:12 [Permalink]
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XXXIX. And whereas the ministers of the gospel are, by their profession, dedicated to the service of God and the care of souls, and ought not to be diverted from the great duties of their function; therefore, no minister of the gospel, or priest of any denomination whatsoever, shall, at any time hereafter, under any presence or description whatever, be eligible to, or capable of holding, any civil or military office or place within this State.
Taken from the State of New York Constitution, April 20th, 1777 |
Mark 10:27 (NKJV) 27But Jesus looked at them and said, “With men it is impossible, but not with God; for with God all things are possible.”
www.pastorsb.com.htm |
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Doomar
SFN Regular
USA
714 Posts |
Posted - 01/15/2005 : 22:14:03 [Permalink]
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XXXI. That no clergyman, or preacher of the gospels of any denomination, shall be capable of being a member of either the Senate, House of Commons, or Council of State, while he continues in the exercise of the pastoral function.
XXXII.(5) That no person, who shall deny the being of God or the truth of the Protestant religion, or the divine authority either of the Old or New Testaments, or who shall hold religious principles incompatible with the freedom and safety of the State, shall be capable of holding any office or place of trust or profit in the civil department within this State.
Constitution of North Carolina : December 18, 1776 |
Mark 10:27 (NKJV) 27But Jesus looked at them and said, “With men it is impossible, but not with God; for with God all things are possible.”
www.pastorsb.com.htm |
| Edited by - Doomar on 01/15/2005 22:15:27 |
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Doomar
SFN Regular
USA
714 Posts |
Posted - 01/15/2005 : 22:18:34 [Permalink]
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If any bill shall not be returned by the president within ten days (Sundays excepted) after it shall have been presented to him, the same shall be a law, in like manner as if he had signed it, unless the Congress by their adjournment prevent its return, in which case it shall not be a law.
From where is this statement taken? |
Mark 10:27 (NKJV) 27But Jesus looked at them and said, “With men it is impossible, but not with God; for with God all things are possible.”
www.pastorsb.com.htm |
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Doomar
SFN Regular
USA
714 Posts |
Posted - 01/15/2005 : 22:21:01 [Permalink]
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III. That all men have a natural and unalienable right to worship Almighty God according to the dictates of their own consciences and understandings, as In their opinion shall be regulated by the word of God; and that no man ought, or of right can be compelled to attend any religious worship, or erect or support any place of worship, or maintain any minister, contrary to the dictates of his conscience; nor can any man be justly deprived or abridged of any civil right as a citizen, on account of his religious sentiments, or peculiar mode of religious worship; and that no authority can, or ought to be vested in, or assumed by any power whatsoever, that shall in any case interfere with, or in any manner control the rights of conscience, in the free exercise of religious worship: Nevertheless, every sect or denomination of Christians ought to observe the Sabbath or Lord's day, and keep up some sort of religious worship, which to them shall seem most agreeable to the revealed will of God.
Taken from: Constitution of Vermont - July 4, 1786 |
Mark 10:27 (NKJV) 27But Jesus looked at them and said, “With men it is impossible, but not with God; for with God all things are possible.”
www.pastorsb.com.htm |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 01/15/2005 : 22:25:05 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Doomar
If Dave W is inclined to learn about this, he has the ability to look it up himself, I think.
You're the one making the claim. Why should I spend time looking up stuff to support your position?quote:
But, what the hey, I spent 2 minutes and found this:
Okay, so you're saying you had no actual knowledge of any teacher being disciplined for praying on his/her own before you made a statement which implied that such punishments are ubiquitous.
And now, all you could come up with was third-hand reporting (it only exists here on the web), cited from Religious Rights Watch (but the Christian Coalition doesn't appear to keep back copies online), which cited the Arizona Republic (but it doesn't have archives prior to 1999). I've got no way to verify this stuff, Doomar, in anything like the same amount of time you took to propose it as truth. It would take more like two days to check this.
Besides which, the summary is crappy, as it says, "Behaviors listed..." but then only lists a single behaviour, and a secondary single accusation (which may or may not be a part of why she was fired). I'm led to believe that the Phoenix board leveled many charges at her, but that the Christian Coalition declined to list them all.
More importantly, you can't verify this easily, either. You may be perpetuating a lie for political gains. But, even taken as it is, it claims Steckel admitted to basing lessons on the Bible, so it's not a case where a teacher was punished just for praying on her own.
Try again. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Doomar
SFN Regular
USA
714 Posts |
Posted - 01/15/2005 : 22:29:48 [Permalink]
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"While we devoutly return thanks to the beneficent Being who has been pleased to breathe into them the spirit of conciliation and forgiveness, we are bound with peculiar gratitude to be thankful to him that our own peace has been preserved through so perilous a season, and ourselves permitted quietly to cultivate the earth and to practice and improve those arts which tend to increase our comforts."
Who spoke these words to Congress?
a. John Adams
b. John Quincy Adams
c. George Washington
d. Thomas Jefferson |
Mark 10:27 (NKJV) 27But Jesus looked at them and said, “With men it is impossible, but not with God; for with God all things are possible.”
www.pastorsb.com.htm |
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Doomar
SFN Regular
USA
714 Posts |
Posted - 01/15/2005 : 22:33:23 [Permalink]
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Dave, why should you spend your time replying to such a fool as myself?
However, I did have knowledge of many cases before making the statement, only where on the net to find them, I did not know, having read or heard of them long before the net even existed. |
Mark 10:27 (NKJV) 27But Jesus looked at them and said, “With men it is impossible, but not with God; for with God all things are possible.”
www.pastorsb.com.htm |
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