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Starman
SFN Regular

Sweden
1613 Posts

Posted - 01/12/2005 :  01:52:31   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Starman a Private Message
Edge::What do you believe to be true but cannot prove?
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Plyss
Skeptic Friend

Netherlands
231 Posts

Posted - 01/12/2005 :  03:52:40   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Plyss a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Starman

Edge::What do you believe to be true but cannot prove?




Great reading, thanks for posting that.
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furshur
SFN Regular

USA
1536 Posts

Posted - 01/12/2005 :  08:48:54   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send furshur a Private Message
I have never seen a satisfactory explanation as to why your pee stinks after eating asparagus.

...well I haven't...




If I knew then what I know now then I would know more now than I know.
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Wendy
SFN Regular

USA
614 Posts

Posted - 01/12/2005 :  08:56:26   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Wendy a Yahoo! Message Send Wendy a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by furshur

I have never seen a satisfactory explanation as to why your pee stinks after eating asparagus.

I have never seen a satisfactory explanation as to why I should eat asparagus.

Edited to add: My pee doesn't stink!

Millions long for immortality who don't know what to do on a rainy afternoon.
-- Susan Ertz
Edited by - Wendy on 01/12/2005 08:57:30
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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard

3192 Posts

Posted - 01/12/2005 :  09:35:30   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send BigPapaSmurf a Private Message
You see 'stink' is an objective term and cannot be qualified properly, a better question is,

Why do most humans have a stronger aversion to the odor produced by urine excreted after ingesting asparagus than to that of urine excreted without the prior ingestion of asparagus?

"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History

"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini
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astropin
SFN Regular

USA
970 Posts

Posted - 01/12/2005 :  11:20:43   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send astropin a Private Message
I believe there is other life in our universe, not necessarily intelligent.

I would rather face a cold reality than delude myself with comforting fantasies.

You are free to believe what you want to believe and I am free to ridicule you for it.

Atheism:
The result of an unbiased and rational search for the truth.

Infinitus est numerus stultorum
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Kil
Evil Skeptic

USA
13477 Posts

Posted - 01/12/2005 :  11:36:54   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Kil's Homepage  Send Kil an AOL message  Send Kil a Yahoo! Message Send Kil a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by astropin

I believe there is other life in our universe, not necessarily intelligent.


quote:
Monty Python:
So remember when you're feeling very small and insecure
How amazingly unlikely is your birth
And pray that there is intelligent life somewhere up in space
Cause there is bugger-all down here on Earth


Galaxy Song

Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.

Why not question something for a change?

Genetic Literacy Project
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astropin
SFN Regular

USA
970 Posts

Posted - 01/12/2005 :  11:47:15   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send astropin a Private Message
Read the article by RANDOLPH NESSE, M.D. at http://www.edge.org/q2005/q05_print.html

What do you think? I think he just might be an educated idiot.

I would rather face a cold reality than delude myself with comforting fantasies.

You are free to believe what you want to believe and I am free to ridicule you for it.

Atheism:
The result of an unbiased and rational search for the truth.

Infinitus est numerus stultorum
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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard

3192 Posts

Posted - 01/12/2005 :  12:19:58   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send BigPapaSmurf a Private Message
I think were way off topic here, we are listing what is not known instead of "What science cannot explain"

Science is everything, what is not is what science cannot explain. Our failure in understanding has no bearing on the actual science involved.

We will never have a scientific proof of imagination so anything therein cannot be properly tested.

Edit: Also on the topic of reality, science cannot explain (to humans) that which may undectectable by any means humans are capable of devoloping or encountering. that does not mean science could not explain those phenomenon to non-human organisms.

"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History

"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini
Edited by - BigPapaSmurf on 01/12/2005 12:23:40
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Isaiah
Skeptic Friend

USA
83 Posts

Posted - 01/12/2005 :  15:51:48   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Isaiah's Homepage Send Isaiah a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by furshur

I have never seen a satisfactory explanation as to why your pee stinks after eating asparagus.

...well I haven't...



http://allergyadvisor.com/Educational/April03.htm
quote:
In February we discussed beeturia. Now we will cover two more food idiosyncrasies: why urine becomes malodorous after the ingestion of asparagus, and why water tastes sweet after the ingestion of artichoke.
The ingestion of asparagus is associated with the production of malodorous (described as "rotten or boiling cabbage" or "vegetable soup") urine. This occurs in approximately 40-43% of people (a figure of 79% was observed in the United States) within an hour after eating only a few spears of asparagus.
It has been shown to remain with individuals for virtually a lifetime. Those who produce this odor assume that everyone does, and those who do not produce it have no idea of its potential olfactory consequences.1,2,3,4,5

Why does this occur?
This phenomena has been regarded as either the result of an inborn error of metabolism or an inherited (autosomal dominant) trait.5,6

But this appears to be not true. The urinary excretion of a pungent odorous substance after asparagus is eaten appears to be universal and the variable is the ability to detect the related odor. The detection of the odor constitutes a specific smell hypersensitivity. Those who can smell the odor in their own urine would thus be able to smell it in the urine of anyone who has eaten asparagus, whether or not that person was able to smell it himself. It is possible that this odor sensitivity is a genetic hypersensitivity or general hyperosmia rather than an inborn error of metabolism. Studies have suggested that it is a genetically determined specific hypersensitivity (controlled by a single autosomal dominant gene).6,7

What is evident is that there also appears to exist a specific hyposmia (hyposphresia) or anosmia, wherein certain individuals are unable to smell the odor even from the most fetid urines. A later study suggested that both phenomena coexist. Some people are excretors while others are nonexcretors; some people are perceivers (able to smell the odor) while others are nonperceivers (do not smell it). But this still needs further investigation.7

Several metabolites have been found present in the urine after ingesting asparagus and at least two different ones have been held responsible for the characteristic odor. Specifically six discrete sulphur-containing alkyl compounds have been identified, namely methanethiol, dimethyl sulphide, dimethyl disulphide, bis-(methylthio)methane, dimethyl sulphoxide and dimethyl sulphone. But other have also been found present.4,7,8

One study has indicated that a substance, namely methylmercaptan, appeared in the urine of 40% of the subjects and suggested that its excretion was an expression of an autosomal dominant gene.7

S-methyl thioacrylate and its methanethiol addition product S-methyl-3 (methylthio) thiopropionate have been postulated to be the odor-causing compounds in most studies that have been performed, but the metabolic pathway leading to their formation has not been identified.2,3,7,9

The isolation of sulfur-containing compounds from the urine after asparagus ingestion is, however, no indication that they themselves contribute to the odor, as they may be insufficiently volatile. Due to many queries about the methods used, more investigations are needed.7,8

...

1. Mitchell SC. Asparagus and malodorous urine. Br J Clin Pharmacol 1989 May;27(5):641-2.
2. Richer C, Decker N, Belin J, Imbs JL, Montastruc JL, Giudicelli JF. Odorous urine in man after asparagus. Br J Clin Pharmacol 1989 May;27(5):640-1.
3. White RH. Occurrence of S-methyl thioesters in urines of humans after they have eaten asparagus. Science 1975 Sep 5;189(4205):810-11.
4. Mitchell SC. Food idiosyncrasies: beetroot and asparagus. Drug Metab Dispos 2001;29:539-43.
5. Mitchell SC, Waring RH, Land D, Thorpe WV. Odorous urine following asparagus ingestion in man. Experientia 1987 Apr 15;43(4):382-3.
6. Hoffenberg L. A note on polymorphism: the ability to smell urinary metabolites of asparagus. Diastema 1983;11:37-8.
7. Lison M, Blondheim SH, Melmed RN. A polymorphism of the ability to smell urinary metabolites of asparagus. Br Med J 1980 Dec 20-27;281(6256):1676-8.
8. Waring RH, Mitchell SC, Fenwick GR. The chemical nature of the urinary odour produced by man after asparagus ingestion. Xenobiotica 1987 Nov;17(11):1363-71.


For Real Things I Know - http://solomonj.blogspot.com

"My point is, that you cannot use lack of evidence for one possibility as proof for another." - Dude

“I would rather delude myself with comforting fantasies than face a cold reality” - Isaiah, altered from astropin
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Wendy
SFN Regular

USA
614 Posts

Posted - 01/12/2005 :  16:10:42   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Wendy a Yahoo! Message Send Wendy a Private Message
Nicely done, Isaiah! I almost forgive you for hurting my feelings. (I'm pretty emotional, you know.)

quote:
Originally posted by BigPapaSmurf
I think were way off topic here, we are listing what is not known instead of "What science cannot explain"

Science is everything, what is not is what science cannot explain. Our failure in understanding has no bearing on the actual science involved.

We will never have a scientific proof of imagination so anything therein cannot be properly tested.

I agree completely.


Millions long for immortality who don't know what to do on a rainy afternoon.
-- Susan Ertz
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furshur
SFN Regular

USA
1536 Posts

Posted - 01/13/2005 :  06:23:24   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send furshur a Private Message
Thanks for answering the 'pee thing' Isaiah.
So I guess we are down to the what is the mechanism of gravity and why latinurinal devotes his life to hating Randi.



If I knew then what I know now then I would know more now than I know.
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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard

3192 Posts

Posted - 01/13/2005 :  09:19:00   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send BigPapaSmurf a Private Message
He needed the 5g's for his own scholarship? Or my favorite, his overly obsessive homoerotic attraction to Randi, manifested as hate when Randi choose another for the award.

I suggest Lithium.

"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History

"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini
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Dude
SFN Die Hard

USA
6891 Posts

Posted - 01/13/2005 :  11:54:59   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Dude a Private Message
He's pissed because he (or his friend, its not totally clear) sent in a tape of the WTC attack and expected to win Randi's $1M. Needless to say he was laughed at.

He seems to have held this grudge for a couple of years.


Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson

"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin

Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth
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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard

3192 Posts

Posted - 01/13/2005 :  12:30:10   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send BigPapaSmurf a Private Message
Claiming what exactly, ghosts as pilots? even the missle/pentagon Conspiracy-theory wouldnt qualify.

"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History

"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini
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