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 Bush daughter flashes "Satan" sign
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie

USA
4826 Posts

Posted - 01/21/2005 :  09:39:10  Show Profile  Visit Valiant Dancer's Homepage Send Valiant Dancer a Private Message
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6852171/

The irony here is just too delicious.

Evidentally, Texan doesn't translate well.

Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils

Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion

Siberia
SFN Addict

Brazil
2322 Posts

Posted - 01/21/2005 :  10:33:23   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Siberia's Homepage  Send Siberia an AOL message  Send Siberia a Yahoo! Message Send Siberia a Private Message
Haha!
Here's no big deal, usual rock-fan cumpliment, but in Chile that very gesture symbolizes a man who's been cheated on by his wife/mistress/girlfriend.

And the American 'ok' gesture here is taken as badly as the middle finger one.

Gotta love different cultures...

"Why are you afraid of something you're not even sure exists?"
- The Kovenant, Via Negativa

"People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs."
-- unknown
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie

USA
4826 Posts

Posted - 01/21/2005 :  10:43:57   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Valiant Dancer's Homepage Send Valiant Dancer a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Siberia

Haha!
Here's no big deal, usual rock-fan cumpliment, but in Chile that very gesture symbolizes a man who's been cheated on by his wife/mistress/girlfriend.

And the American 'ok' gesture here is taken as badly as the middle finger one.

Gotta love different cultures...



I believe the thumbing a ride gesture is insulting to Mexicans.

IIRC, the OK gesture in the US equates to calling someone a homosexual.

Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils

Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion
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Siberia
SFN Addict

Brazil
2322 Posts

Posted - 01/21/2005 :  11:08:09   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Siberia's Homepage  Send Siberia an AOL message  Send Siberia a Yahoo! Message Send Siberia a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Valiant Dancer

[quote]Originally posted by Siberia

IIRC, the OK gesture in the US equates to calling someone a homosexual.


Yep, same here

"Why are you afraid of something you're not even sure exists?"
- The Kovenant, Via Negativa

"People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs."
-- unknown
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend

Sweden
9688 Posts

Posted - 01/21/2005 :  15:39:44   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Dr. Mabuse an ICQ Message Send Dr. Mabuse a Private Message
I always knew that George Bush was The Anti-Christ. Now I have positive proof!

Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3

"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse

Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder.
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Storm
SFN Regular

USA
708 Posts

Posted - 01/21/2005 :  16:44:34   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Storm's Homepage Send Storm a Private Message
In the Pagan tradition it is the sighn of the Horned God. The Horned God turned into the Devil with the advent of Christianity. The Old Gods became new Devils....
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard

USA
3834 Posts

Posted - 01/24/2005 :  00:39:57   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send beskeptigal a Private Message
We were having a discussion about this very thing here on the Bad Astronomy BB.

It wasn't just Jenna. Mr and Ms W Bush both flashed the gesture several times during the inauguration ceremonies. A few people at the BABB responded quite negatively to my comment that I thought Bush handlers should have advised against the gesture given current events and the view by some terrorist recruiters that the US is "The Great Satan", and Bush is really on a religious 'crusade' invading their lands. Since the BABB does not allow religious or political threads it was hard to respond there. So I have invited folks here if they were interested.

This site had a pretty complete list as far as I can tell on all the interpretations one might see in the gesture. They called it a "Cornu".
quote:
This is a hand gesture which has been misinterpreted as a Satanic recognition signal in many books on Satanism. For example, Michael Warnke refers to this gesture as a recognition signal for "the Brotherhood" in The Satan Seller. The cornu gesture is prominently displayed by all of the people on the cover of Frattarola's America's Best Kept Secret. Mary Ann Herold lists it twice in A Basic Manual on the Occult for Law Enforcement Agencies. A cornu, also described as an "Italian Horn", is listed as a "Demonic Symbol" on the Madrak's Demonbusters web site.[88] The glossary of the Watch Network's Be Aware! handbook defines "Horned Hand" as "The 'horned hand' is the sign of recognition between those who are in the occult".[89] Thomas Carder's ChildCare Action Project/Christian Analysis of American Culture web site defines the "horned hand or the mano cornuto" thus:

"This gesture is the satanic salute, a sign of recognition between and allegiance of members of satanism or other unholy groups. It is also called the Il Cornuto. In other 'circles,' whether displayed as a hand gesture or worn as an amulet, it is supposed to ward off evil (the evil eye) as are the hamsa hand (three finger - two thumbed hand), the eye-in-hand (eye in the palm), and the mano fico ('mano' meaning hand and 'fico' meaning woman's genitals)."[90]

Eventually the cornu or "horned hand" showed up in several police manuals. Lou Sloat's Texas Ritualistic Crime Information Network Occult Crime Manual lists the cornu as a "horned hand sign" in an untitled list of symbols attributed to Satanism.[91] Other examples include:

# "A satanic salute or sign among members; represents devil's horns. Often used innocently by adolescent heavy metal groupies without knowing its alternate meaning."[92]

# "Originally used by Pseudo-Satanists as a secret hand sign to gain access to rituals, the sign is now widely used by Self-styled Satanists to indicate that they are in league with Satan."[93]

The "cornu", "mano cornuto" or "horned hand" salute is made by raising one's hand with the index and little fingers extended and the other fingers and thumb folded against the palm. In different contexts this means quite a few things, including the following:

# In Wicca this is used in some traditions as the sign of the Horned God. Warnke may have been aware of this, as he is using it in reference to what he describes as "witches" here.

# In some Native American traditions this is the sign of the Buffalo.

# Anton LaVey adopted this as a Satanic salute, resulting in it being advertised as such by books such as these.

# It is a recognition signal used by the Piru (Bloods) gang members in Los Angeles.

# It is a symbol of the Texas Longhorns football team.

# It is a slang hand sign in American sign language for the colloquial expression "[bad word deleted]".

This last interpretation of this hand sign pretty much sums up the content of most of the books that list it as a purely Satanic symbol. Incidentally, the image of the hand with the eye in the palm that Carder referred to is a common image in Tibet and in the art of the Native American mound builders.
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