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Storm
SFN Regular
USA
708 Posts |
 Posted - 01/22/2005 : 19:31:07
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The Satanic Panic
I read the great article on False Memory in the Kil report.. I am very familiar with it, for I have done much research from a psychological point of view and of course for woo woo reasons on False Memory and Satanic Ritual Abuse. There was a big explosion in the early 1980's here in America involving day care centers. So check this site out.
http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/5202/SatanicPanic.htm
[Moved to the Social Issues folder - Dave W.]
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 01/22/2005 : 20:42:10 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Storm
The Satanic Panic
I read the great article on False Memory in the Kil report.. I am very familiar with it, for I have done much research from a psychological point of view and of course for woo woo reasons on False Memory and Satanic Ritual Abuse. There was a big explosion in the early 1980's here in America involving day care centers. So check this site out.
http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/5202/SatanicPanic.htm
[Moved to the Social Issues folder - Dave W.]
Interesting site, Storm. I'll admit I haven't paid a lot of attention to the Satanist movement, if such it be. There are such a bewildering assortment of cults and beliefs.......
I'll have to check it out further.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
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Storm
SFN Regular
USA
708 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2005 : 16:38:57 [Permalink]
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| "Questioning the Validity of False Memory Syndrome," That is the one I read. |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 01/24/2005 : 02:34:07 [Permalink]
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Here's a whole list of similar cases during our modern day witch hunts that I think started with the McMartin case in CA.
I actually donated money to Dawn Wilson's defense in the Little Rascal's Day Care case in North Carolina. I saw a Frontline program on it and was outraged at the life sentence Dawn got after refusing a plea bargain and being convicted. The conviction has since been over turned. Everyone's convictions were eventually overturned but the prosecutors kept retrying Robert Kelly, one of the defendants. He happened to be the one 'man' at the daycare, and we all know that must have meant he was a pervert.  Finally charges against him were also dropped. |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 01/24/2005 : 10:03:13 [Permalink]
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| What often happened in these cases was the manipulation of children to “remember” the "correct" answer. That is, the answer that the investigators wanted to hear. Children do lie. And they will do it to not disappoint an adult authority figure. Especially if the kids are rewarded for the "correct" answers and admonished for remembering incorrectly. We need to understand that this is not the recovery of repressed traumatic memories of sexual abuse. It is more akin to brainwashing. False memories aside, these cases have nothing to do with the kind of traumatic repression that the FMSF is addressing and denying. They use these cases to bolster their claims. They love to cite them for dramatic effect. But in the end, it is comparing apples to oranges. |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Paulos23
Skeptic Friend
USA
446 Posts |
Posted - 01/24/2005 : 11:44:22 [Permalink]
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Something like this happened hear in Washington State. I forget the town name, but I will look it up if anyone asks. A sheriff thought he was dealing with a child sex ring, and lots of people got imprisened. It turned out that they where falsely imprisened after many of the kids recanted on their stories that their case workers and the sheriff had them tell.
I remeber this well because it was in the local newspaper for a year. It was like watching a witch hunt. |
You can go wrong by being too skeptical as readily as by being too trusting. -- Robert A. Heinlein
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. -- Aldous Huxley |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 01/24/2005 : 16:08:19 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Paulos23
Something like this happened hear in Washington State. I forget the town name, .....
Wenatchee.
I see the difference you are talking about Kil. I wonder though, if the route of gaining the false belief differs, indoctrination in real time vs indoctrination of past event memories, but perhaps the underlying mechanisms are the same.
The kids in these cases often came to believe the abuse occurred even years later. In the case of supposed recovered memories, there is also some mechanism for the memories such as hypnosis or a counselor asking if it could be a cause of symptoms until the cause becomes real to the person. It isn't really so different.
Even if the recovered memories are spontaneous, things the person has read or learned might lead that person to self counseling themselves into the memory. |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 01/24/2005 : 20:33:24 [Permalink]
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quote:
beskeptigal:
I see the difference you are talking about Kil. I wonder though, if the route of gaining the false belief differs, indoctrination in real time vs indoctrination of past event memories, but perhaps the underlying mechanisms are the same.
And perhaps not.
quote:
beskeptigal:
The kids in these cases often came to believe the abuse occurred even years later. In the case of supposed recovered memories, there is also some mechanism for the memories such as hypnosis or a counselor asking if it could be a cause of symptoms until the cause becomes real to the person. It isn't really so different.
The similarities are probably superficial. Children process information differently than adults do. Their minds are much more malleable and they are much more likely to want to please a person in authority than adults are. As for maintaining a belief that the memory is real, there could be many reasons for that. Cognitive dissonance comes to mind as but one of what may be dozens of reasons for clinging to a false memory.
quote:
beskeptigal:
Even if the recovered memories are spontaneous, things the person has read or learned might lead that person to self counseling themselves into the memory.
You seem to want one answer to cover all cases of false or recovered memories. Again, there are literally dozens of possibilities. And none of them may be mutually exclusive.
If you want to know where I am coming from on this please read my"A Cherry Picker's Guide To Choosing Evidence For Traumatic Repression Or False Memory Syndrome." |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 01/25/2005 : 01:32:57 [Permalink]
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| I understand where you're coming from and I totally agree, Kil. I was just pointing out alternative ideas. I am not convinced one way or the other if we are just seeing versions of how memory functions, (or should I say malfunctions), or whether we are seeing some unique psychiatric syndrome. I will say after this discussion, I have a better idea of the question in the poll on the syndrome than I did at first. |
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