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Isaiah
Skeptic Friend
USA
83 Posts |
 Posted - 01/26/2005 : 18:10:50
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So, what do you think?
Quit Smoking or Quit Your Job, U.S. Company Says:
quote:
CHICAGO (Reuters) - The owner of a Michigan company who forced his employees to either quit smoking or quit their jobs said on Wednesday he also wants to tell fat workers to lose weight or else.
A ban on tobacco use -- whether at home or at the workplace -- led four employees to quit their jobs last week at Okemos, Michigan-based Weyco Inc., which handles insurance claims.
The workers refused to take a mandatory urine test demanded of Weyco's 200 employees by founder and sole owner Howard Weyers, a demand that he said was perfectly legal.
'If you don't want to take the test, you can leave,' Weyers told Reuters. 'I'm not controlling their lives; they have a choice whether they want to work here.'
Next on the firing line: overweight workers.
'We have to work on eating habits and getting people to exercise. But if you're obese, you're (legally) protected,' Weyers said.
KVCC hiring rule: Smokers need not apply:
quote:
If you smoke and want a full-time job at Kalamazoo Valley Community College, you can forget it.
A new hiring policy that took effect on Jan. 1 tells job seekers that tobacco users will not be considered for full-time employment at KVCC.
Part-timers looking to move up a rung to a full-time position can't if they smoke or use other tobacco products.
Officials say the new policy is an effort to contain health-care costs, based on national research suggesting that tobacco use increases medical claims.
About three dozen employees, or 10 percent of the college's full-time staff, use tobacco, according to an employee survey.
The sanctions will not affect full-timers hired prior to the new regulation, however.
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For Real Things I Know - http://solomonj.blogspot.com
"My point is, that you cannot use lack of evidence for one possibility as proof for another." - Dude
“I would rather delude myself with comforting fantasies than face a cold reality” - Isaiah, altered from astropin |
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 01/26/2005 : 19:06:24 [Permalink]
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It's a curious set of examples. On the one hand, it's easy to side with the company: because smokers have higher insurance, ordering employees to stop smoking will ostensibly lower health insurance rates and thus keep costs down.
The question, though, is how far can a company go in this direction? It was suggested that obesity was next. I don't know if that lowers rates for health insurance (presumably it should, since there are strong correlations between obesity and health problems-- especially later in life), but what next? What about drinking? Suppose I go bungie jumping or engage in some "extreme" sport on the weekends? surely those activities are riskier than something like quietly reading books and magazines! Can he order people to live in certain (safer) neighborhoods? Demand that their children not watch TV and movies where the characters smoke (since some studies have suggested that this leads to greater chances of teen smoking)?
A simpler solution might be to draw the line at health insuranc costs-- the company covers so much of the bill, and whatever the cost of the premium over that is met by the employee. This way, employees are free to do as they wish, and the company meets its goal of managing costs! Indeed, many companies do this already (not because of smokers, but because health insurance is too high for many smaller businesses)! |
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard
USA
4907 Posts |
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Starman
SFN Regular
Sweden
1613 Posts |
Posted - 01/27/2005 : 02:35:36 [Permalink]
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I am not allowed to smoke at my work place or smoke in the clothes that I wear to work. This as it might affect my co-workers health.
What I do on my free time is not really my companies business, but I was asked if I smoked before I was hired. |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 01/27/2005 : 02:50:04 [Permalink]
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Don't airline stewards have weight restrictions?. Police and fire are sometimes required to respond to certain events when off duty. I've had jobs with mandatory on call hours. I can't think of any off hand but I'm sure I've heard of jobs where you can't embarrass the company while off duty.
If you can require people to be physically fit for a job then smoking might be an issue. Maybe they have data that smokers cannot go 8 hours without smoking and still perform well on the job.
I will say you can smell offensive odors for a while after someone has had a cigarette. I doubt it is unhealthy for the co-worker, but it can be unpleasant. If you had any public contact it could potentially put customers off.
And on the opposite side, there are a lot of bar jobs and a few restaurants that the worker has to breath the equivalent of smoking via second hand smoke. I just thought I'd throw that in. |
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Starman
SFN Regular
Sweden
1613 Posts |
Posted - 01/27/2005 : 04:01:42 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by beskeptigal
I doubt it is unhealthy for the co-worker, but it can be unpleasant.
When I started my employment, there were a few of my co-workers (including my boss) who had asthma. Oxygen deprivation is very unpleasant. |
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woolytoad
Skeptic Friend
313 Posts |
Posted - 01/27/2005 : 05:00:46 [Permalink]
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I sorta agree, but the methods are extreme. Where my mom works, they offer extra benefits for participating in after work exercise (well they used to until some dweeb decided to cancel the program). Say, run around the reservoir 3 days a week for the next month and you get something. Keep it up, you get something better.
Guess what? Most employees participated, and the amount they spent on medical benefits went down.
And as a former asthma sufferer. Smoking should be outright banned. Absolutely nothing good comes from it. |
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moakley
SFN Regular
USA
1888 Posts |
Posted - 01/27/2005 : 05:58:24 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by beskeptigal
And on the opposite side, there are a lot of bar jobs and a few restaurants that the worker has to breath the equivalent of smoking via second hand smoke. I just thought I'd throw that in.
Even Charlotte, NC, near the heart of tobacco land is considering a ban on all smoking in public buildings.
I have no problem with companies deciding who to hire based upon a no smoking policy.
When do the overweight and obese start to miss out on job opportunities because of their unhealthy life styles ? |
Life is good
Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. -Anonymous |
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furshur
SFN Regular
USA
1536 Posts |
Posted - 01/27/2005 : 07:00:06 [Permalink]
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I think it is absurd to give someone a urinalysis to determine if they smoke, and then use that as a weapon to fire them. If they are worried about the health cost to the company then charge smokers a fee to offset the cost to the company for the insurance. I strongly disagree with firing someone for engaging in a legal activity while not at work.
Some ex-smokers tend to be the most rabid anti-smoking advocates. I bet the CEO of this company is an ex-smoker who can't stand that some people still smoke. Complete conjecture on my part without a shread of evidence, but what the hey.
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If I knew then what I know now then I would know more now than I know. |
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Wendy
SFN Regular
USA
614 Posts |
Posted - 01/27/2005 : 07:41:50 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by furshur
I think it is absurd to give someone a urinalysis to determine if they smoke, and then use that as a weapon to fire them. If they are worried about the health cost to the company then charge smokers a fee to offset the cost to the company for the insurance. I strongly disagree with firing someone for engaging in a legal activity while not at work.
I agree completely. Bill the employee for the additional cost, forbid smoking on the premises, and/or during work hours. Telling people what they can do in their own homes on their own time is outrageous.
quote:
Originally posted by furshur
Some ex-smokers tend to be the most rabid anti-smoking advocates. I bet the CEO of this company is an ex-smoker who can't stand that some people still smoke. Complete conjecture on my part without a shread of evidence, but what the hey.
For what it's worth, I'm an ex-smoker.  |
Millions long for immortality who don't know what to do on a rainy afternoon.
-- Susan Ertz
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Siberia
SFN Addict
Brazil
2322 Posts |
Posted - 01/27/2005 : 07:50:12 [Permalink]
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| Yeah. But see, next is the obese. Next the handicapped. |
"Why are you afraid of something you're not even sure exists?"
- The Kovenant, Via Negativa
"People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs."
-- unknown
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furshur
SFN Regular
USA
1536 Posts |
Posted - 01/27/2005 : 08:59:14 [Permalink]
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Wendy, I too am an ex smoker, 20 years this summer. If they developed a cigarette that was not dangerous and tasted good - I'd start smoking again this afternoon!
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If I knew then what I know now then I would know more now than I know. |
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Wendy
SFN Regular
USA
614 Posts |
Posted - 01/27/2005 : 09:14:37 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by furshur
Wendy, I too am an ex smoker, 20 years this summer. If they developed a cigarette that was not dangerous and tasted good - I'd start smoking again this afternoon!
If it would also make my clothes and hair smell like a mountain breeze I'd be in line right behind you! 
quote:
Originally posted by Siberia
Yeah. But see, next is the obese. Next the handicapped.
Right. And that is absolutely unacceptable.
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Millions long for immortality who don't know what to do on a rainy afternoon.
-- Susan Ertz
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 01/27/2005 : 09:45:41 [Permalink]
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| What happens on the grounds of a business, i.e. no smoking, is probably a right that the owners have as a reason for termination. But telling people what they can do in their own homes, or even outside, can probably be successfully challenged in a law suit. It seems to me that the company would have to demonstrate a loss of productivity to make the rule stick in most courts... |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 01/27/2005 : 13:33:53 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Starman
quote:
Originally posted by beskeptigal
I doubt it is unhealthy for the co-worker, but it can be unpleasant.
When I started my employment, there were a few of my co-workers (including my boss) who had asthma. Oxygen deprivation is very unpleasant.
So are you talking about an allergic reaction to some remaining particulates or chemicals emanating from the smoker's clothes or skin?
If a person with asthma had such an allergy then co-worker accommodation of some kind might be in order but you are talking about something exceptional. |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 01/27/2005 : 13:41:52 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by moakley
When do the overweight and obese start to miss out on job opportunities because of their unhealthy life styles ?
Maybe when they prove it isn't genetic. Once you quit smoking, and get past the relapse period, you don't have many people taking up smoking again. Once you lose weight, even if you can, the vast majority gain it back. There are differences.
They have banned smoking in bars around here too. Some owners are rebelling and refusing the orders. Daily fines were threatened. From there I haven't kept up on the news.
Just so folks know my comments were just comments and did not indicate my position on the matter. I don't smoke and prefer a smoke free world myself. I can smell a lit cigarette across the park. I don't like it when folks smoke nearby even outside. |
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