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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
 Posted - 02/11/2005 : 19:58:14 [Permalink]
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quote:
We can't be 100% certain of anything since we do not possess absolute knowledge.
I can be, and am, 100% certain that no human being can shit out an SUV.
It's an absurdity to say that you can't know with 100% certainty that such a thing is impossible.
There are countless things that I can state with 100% certainty.
I am not the biological father of any person who posts on this forum. 100% certainty.
I cannot survive without oxygen for more than a few minutes. 100% certainty.
I cannot see through solid and opaque objects with just my biological eyes. 100% certainty.
Dave_W cannot leap 1000 feet into the air using only his own body for motive force. 100% certainty.
And on and on and on.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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R.Wreck
SFN Regular
USA
1191 Posts |
Posted - 02/12/2005 : 10:12:34 [Permalink]
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"So, is it possible that one of these days I will crap a full sized Lincoln Navigator out my ass?"
-astropin, this thread
"It's Impossible... to stick a Cadillac up your nose"
-Steve Martin, Let's Get Small
(I don't know what it is about the automotive / bodily orifice interface that lends itself so well to this topic. Maybe great minds really do think alike). |
The foundation of morality is to . . . give up pretending to believe that for which there is no evidence, and repeating unintelligible propositions about things beyond the possibliities of knowledge.
T. H. Huxley
The Cattle Prod of Enlightened Compassion
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astropin
SFN Regular
USA
970 Posts |
Posted - 02/12/2005 : 10:34:45 [Permalink]
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| I'll take that as a complement. Steve is one of my childhood hero's. I find that in general, comedians tend to be smarter than average. In some cases, allot smarter. |
I would rather face a cold reality than delude myself with comforting fantasies.
You are free to believe what you want to believe and I am free to ridicule you for it.
Atheism:
The result of an unbiased and rational search for the truth.
Infinitus est numerus stultorum |
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R.Wreck
SFN Regular
USA
1191 Posts |
Posted - 02/12/2005 : 10:44:40 [Permalink]
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quote:
I'll take that as a complement. Steve is one of my childhood hero's.
Turned out to be a fairly good actor too. |
The foundation of morality is to . . . give up pretending to believe that for which there is no evidence, and repeating unintelligible propositions about things beyond the possibliities of knowledge.
T. H. Huxley
The Cattle Prod of Enlightened Compassion
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Starman
SFN Regular
Sweden
1613 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2005 : 02:49:42 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dude
I am not the biological father of any person who posts on this forum. 100% certainty.
How about biological mother? Any certainty there?
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chaloobi
SFN Regular
1620 Posts |
Posted - 02/15/2005 : 08:05:30 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by filthy
quote:
Originally posted by astropin
So, is it possible that one of these days I will crap a full sized Lincoln Navigator out my ass?
If you do, I'd like to place an order for a new S-10 Chevy Blazer (the small one; not the SUV piece of shit).
LMAO. |
-Chaloobi
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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard
3192 Posts |
Posted - 02/15/2005 : 10:10:33 [Permalink]
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| As a kid I had a buddy who could flatuate on que, with songs such as Mary had a little lamb. Perhaps he has seen some improvement down there. |
"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History
"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini |
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Wendy
SFN Regular
USA
614 Posts |
Posted - 02/15/2005 : 11:59:43 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by BigPapaSmurf
As a kid I had a buddy who could flatuate on que, with songs such as Mary had a little lamb. Perhaps he has seen some improvement down there.
I'm not sure I'd call that an improvement!  Personally, I'd prefer a friend that could shit out an SUV. Too bad that's impossible.
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Millions long for immortality who don't know what to do on a rainy afternoon.
-- Susan Ertz
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dv82matt
SFN Regular
760 Posts |
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astropin
SFN Regular
USA
970 Posts |
Posted - 02/17/2005 : 11:29:14 [Permalink]
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| Cool Site! Thanks dv82matt |
I would rather face a cold reality than delude myself with comforting fantasies.
You are free to believe what you want to believe and I am free to ridicule you for it.
Atheism:
The result of an unbiased and rational search for the truth.
Infinitus est numerus stultorum |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 02/17/2005 : 11:39:11 [Permalink]
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While I would encourage anyone to learn about epistemology, I'm not sure how it's relevent to this particular discussion unless we want to start talking about how we can know that some things are impossible.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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dv82matt
SFN Regular
760 Posts |
Posted - 02/17/2005 : 14:43:05 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dude
While I would encourage anyone to learn about epistemology, I'm not sure how it's relevent to this particular discussion unless we want to start talking about how we can know that some things are impossible.
I think it goes to the heart of the argument, because I don't think that everyone is using the word "knowledge" or "knowing" in the same context.
For example if we do not grant a logical framework for knowledge then all knowledge is impossible. In fact even the knowledge that all knowledge is impossible is impossible. This logical contradiction is of no consequence as we are not reasoning within a logical framework. All statements become meaningless. The set of all knowledge is an empty set.
So if we are to have knowledge we must grant logic, but it doesn't end there. If we only grant pure logic and nothing else, then we still can say nothing about the real, physical world. In order for logic to get a handle on the real world we have to formalize the real world. Render it in abstractions and symbols. This amounts to knowledge based on evidence, and sound reasoning from the the evidence, or natural philosophy, or science.
After this we have practical knowledge, or common sense. Common sense is very useful and relevant to daily living but is generally oversimplified or just plain wrong. Most of us think on the level of practical knowledge most of the time.
Then comes spiritualism in all of it's multifaceted glory. On some level it is based on common sense, but it goes beyond common sense. Often these beliefs will seem perfectly logical to the person holding the beliefs but obviously flawed to an outsider.
In the hierarchy of knowledge, absolute knowledge by definition has nothing behind it, not even logic, so we cannot say anything with certainty when talking about absolute knowledge.
Dude, you seem to be thinking on a practical level with your statements of impossibility, although some of them do rise to higher standards.
On a practical level it is impossible for a mouse to survive on the surface of the sun for a week, on a scientific level it is, as far as we know, merely hugely unlikely. |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 02/17/2005 : 15:01:28 [Permalink]
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quote:
On a practical level it is impossible for a mouse to survive on the surface of the sun for a week, on a scientific level it is, as far as we know, merely hugely unlikely.
That is a factually wrong statement.
The claim that it's just highly improbable is based on some application of quantum wave functions to the macroscopic scale. Which is just another inapropriate use if quantum theory.
quote:
In the hierarchy of knowledge, absolute knowledge by definition has nothing behind it, not even logic, so we cannot say anything with certainty when talking about absolute knowledge.
Find me a human who can shit out an SUV, and I'll agree with you.
What your doing is conflating certainty based on evidence with "absolute knowledge".
Let me rephrase one of my 100% certainty claims.
It is impossible for me to be the biological mother of anyone who posts on this forum.
As a normal male of the species, who has not been modified in any fantastic (yeah, we've all seen the stupid movie) way to bear children, I can make this claim with 100% certainty.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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dv82matt
SFN Regular
760 Posts |
Posted - 02/17/2005 : 16:34:55 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dude
quote:
On a practical level it is impossible for a mouse to survive on the surface of the sun for a week, on a scientific level it is, as far as we know, merely hugely unlikely.
That is a factually wrong statement.
The claim that it's just highly improbable is based on some application of quantum wave functions to the macroscopic scale. Which is just another inapropriate use if quantum theory.
Actually, as Dave pointed out, (earlier this thread) all that is required is brownian motion and a ton of luck. Also are you an expert on quantum mechanics? Unless you are you shouldn't categorically state what is not allowable under quantum theory. Quantum mechanics is hardly in line with common sense.
quote:
quote:
In the hierarchy of knowledge, absolute knowledge by definition has nothing behind it, not even logic, so we cannot say anything with certainty when talking about absolute knowledge.
Find me a human who can shit out an SUV, and I'll agree with you.
Whether a human can shit out an SUV or not is irrelevant. You're missing the forest for the trees.
quote:
What your doing is conflating certainty based on evidence with "absolute knowledge".
I am not conflating them. I'm attempting seperate them so that when someone speaks of absolute knowledge you do not equate that with scientific knowledge or some other type of knowledge.
quote:
Let me rephrase one of my 100% certainty claims.
It is impossible for me to be the biological mother of anyone who posts on this forum.
As a normal male of the species, who has not been modified in any fantastic (yeah, we've all seen the stupid movie) way to bear children, I can make this claim with 100% certainty.
Yeah that makes it a logical impossibility. The way you had it originally made me wonder. |
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard
USA
4907 Posts |
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