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latinijral
Banned
197 Posts |
 Posted - 02/16/2005 : 17:46:43 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Cuneiformist
quote:
Originally posted by latinijral
Uhh!!!! Was not about that Randi did or not know who Moefaux is?Or do I have to refresh your poor memory again?
Let's make $10000. Don't be so cheap.
Dumbass. Don't be so obtuse. It's obvious that there's a misunderstanding regarding the nature of the bet. Dave was betting your mother doesn't know who latinijral is, but you were talking (again-- Zzzzzzzzz) about this Randi-MoeFaux thing. So no, you don't need to refresh Dave's memory. You need to calm down and relax and move on to another topic...
Double Dumbass:
Read this quote from Dave :
"I bet Randi knows her by her real name, and not a misspelling of her forum handle".
I bet Randi hkows who MoeFaux is.
The stripper , ex girlfriend of Penn who recieved $5000 cash from the JREF and that forced them to change the rules after the scandal was revealed.
MoeFaux is also known as MOFOBABE.
Chris Bidlack is also known as WOo WOO Bidlack, the other guy who recieved benefits from the JREF while his own father was the formal director of the JREF ( a pretended "skeptic" educational foundation).
Do I hear some chicken sound here?
KOKOKOKOKO
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Father of the new skepticism
Cuneiformist "But yeah, I'm sick of latinijral. And his "new "skepticism"! |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 02/16/2005 : 17:57:42 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by latinijral
The problem with you is your fanatism that blind your eyes. It is not my problem.
Your problem is that your fanaticism has blinded you to reasonable discourse. And yes, it is your problem.
Look, here's the old thread. These are all the things you linked to:- In CONCLUSION of the JREF/KRAMER/JAMES RANDI Affair (28 pages)
- The paranormal donation of $ 5000 from JREF to...... (18 pages)
- Call for papers.....from Randi (1 page)
- NSFW (2 pages)
- In CONCLUSION of the Carlos Swett Affair (6 pages)
- The Slammer Tour (1 big page of photos)
- I miss Denise - part 2 (11 pages)
Now, on which of the 57 pages in which of the 7 links would I find information which conclusively shows that the scholarships were given to MoeFaux and Chris Bidlack in a criminal manner?quote:
Refuse?The problem with you is that you don't want to read it. Those are your words.
No, I said I don't want to read another 40 pages to find it. I'll gladly read it if you point to where it is.quote:
I can quote your poor memory asking me if I am sure Chris Bidlack was the "other" one WHO received the schoolarship.
Right. I never asked you "who is Chris Bidlack?" Instead, I told you that I cannot find any evidence that Chris Bidlack received a JREF scholarship.quote:
I do. It is supposed to be an Educational Foundation using money from conributors. If they changed the rules after they gave both schoolarships then they are pretending to hide something unethical and fraudulent.
I have yet to see any evidence that they changed the rules. Point it out to me in the 57 pages of stuff you've already linked to.quote:
If you don't care, what and why are you asking for something you pretend to deny like a JREF cultist.
I'm asking because you're here on my forum making accusations of criminal activity against a public organization. Do you not see how that could present a liability for me, that I have an obligation to follow up? I followed it up by asking you for more information, which you have yet to produce. If you were to stop posting, the matter - as far as the SFN is concerned - would end (at least until someone at the JREF is charged with fraud). But you won't let it drop, yet you continue to refuse to move forward with your claims.quote:
If the own father of Chris Bidlack ( the formal director of the JREF when Chris received the money) doesn't know what outstanding contribution his son did , it is because there is not any outstanding contribution. Not even from the stripper MOFO , and I mean skeptic contribution , not the "other kind".
No, that's what you have to prove. I'm not defending the JREF, but neither do I care enough to attack the group. It's your accusation, you back it up. You must prove that they made no "outstanding contribution." Simply saying "well, where is it?" will never be sufficient to prove your case.quote:
An Educational Foundation like the JREF is in the obligation to tell it to the genral public . It is part of their goals.
No, educating the public is their goal. Telling people who their scholarships go to is not one of their goals.quote:
But ....in this case they have NADA ( nothing) because it is just a fraudulent and unethical episode.Period.
No, that's what you have to prove.quote:
Or do you still think that outstanding contributions to skepticism should remain in secret?
That they chose not to divulge the information publicly is none of my business.quote:
Before in this board, there are threee "skeptics forums " that discusssed the topic.Why not here?
Because it doesn't advance our mission, except to make an example of your lack of skepticism.quote:
Now the Skeptick friends Network alsoknew about it.
But few people here have ever heard of the JREF, much less donated to it. Have you really failed to comprehend the fact that this skeptic's forum isn't full of people who also post on the JREF forums, unlike at least two of the "other forums?"quote:
How many times I have to tell you the facts are in the links I posted in the thread you closed?
And how many times do I have to ask you for a page number before you'll provide it?quote:
Uhh!!!! Was not about that Randi did or not know who Moefaux is?
The bet wasn't. You made the claim that Randi should know who MoeFox is, even though "MoeFox" never posted at JREF and Randi probably knew MoeFaux by her real name. I asked you if your mother knows you post to message boards as "latinijral," and you sugg |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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latinijral
Banned
197 Posts |
Posted - 02/16/2005 : 18:36:26 [Permalink]
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Before the $5000 JREF schoolarship scandal :
Quote:
The Foundation recognizes excellence in student work. We offer several scholarships for students. The newsletter Swift from time to time publishes scholarly papers and essays from students. We invite student readers to send contributions, and we encourage instructors to bring student work to our attention.
source: http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.randi.org/education/
How the JREF changef the rules AFTER the $5000 MOE FAUX scoolarship scandal :
Quote:
The James Randi Educational Foundation is proud to offer scholarships and awards to students and educators the Foundation feels have demonstrated outstanding work in promoting rational and critical thinking. The scholarships are not awarded on a particular time scale. These awards can be given to both specific applicants as well as to those who have come to the attention of the James Randi Educational Foundation as deserving without formally applying. Scholarship submissions are encouraged to be sent to James Randi at randi@randi.org. Submissions are not required to have any set format; they need only be your way of alerting Mr. Randi to the applicant#65533;s work in rational and critical thinking, as well as the applicant#65533;s educational goals.
source: http://www.randi.org/education/
http://www.skepticalcommunity.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=1022&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=160
They changed the rules.
That is a fact.
QOUTE :
The JREF just gave an intern the $5000 scolarship as a surprise. She had not even applied for it. James Randi was impressed with her during her internship duties and rewarded her the scholarship near the end of her internship.
The guidelines for the scholarship indicated an application and review process were necesary to be eligible for the scholarship. James Randi felt he could give it to anyone he pleased. The guidelines were then changed to reflect this.
Members of the forum were surprised to hear about this gift because the JREF has been known to be so short of money in the past. Linda explained that TAM had been such a success because of the large donation given by either Johnny Carson or a foundation that donates money for Johnny Carson.
The scholarship gift was revealed by a member of the forum who was an ex-boyfriend of the intern. (He did not reveal her name, she came forward and identified herself.) His reveal took place in the 400 page thread that resulted from Hal's announcement to no longer house threads on JREF that were not "on mission," particularly the Entertainment forum which houses the Community sub-forum. His reveal inflamed the intern's friends on the forum and as a result a lot of tension was added to an already volatile situation.
Side issues erupted that IMO, had no real bearing on the scandal. Those would include what the intern did with the award and what her previous occupation was and speculations that she did not have a financial need. Her internship was a "gift" from Penn Jillette, the intern's recent boyfriend, which spawned accusations of nepotism.
Another person who did apply got $2000. I don't know if anyone else applied.
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Father of the new skepticism
Cuneiformist "But yeah, I'm sick of latinijral. And his "new "skepticism"! |
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 02/16/2005 : 19:15:50 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by latinijral
Do I hear some chicken sound here?
Funny-- all I hear are crickets chirping. Anyow...
quote:
Double Dumbass:
Read this quote from Dave :
"I bet Randi knows her by her real name, and not a misspelling of her forum handle".
I bet Randi hkows who MoeFaux is.
*Yawn* No, here's the exchange, braniac.
1) Dave said:quote:
"It's no surprise at all. I bet Randi knows her by her real name, and not a misspelling of her forum handle. Does your mother know who "latinijral" is?"
2) To which you responded:quote:
How much you "wanna bet"?
Now unfortunately, your counter-challenge is ambiguous. For while Dave uses the word "bet" in the second sentence, he also challenges you in his third and final sentence. That is, he suggests that your mother doesn't know the internet handle latinijral is yours.
So when you wrote "'wanna bet'" after Dave's thought, it's perfectly logical to imply that you were talking about the final part. This, even when it's clear-- now that you've clarified it-- that you were talking about the second part.
So whatever-- it's a misunderstanding. Relax. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 02/16/2005 : 19:37:06 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by latinijral
Before the $5000 JREF schoolarship scandal :
[snip]
How the JREF changef the rules AFTER the $5000 MOE FAUX scoolarship scandal :
[snip]
They changed the rules.
That is a fact.
Okay. So what? These aren't even "rules," but instead a short description of the scholarship program. The original "rules" don't say anything about the JREF being forbidden from giving an intern a surprise scholarship. That they changed the public "rules" does not prove fraud.quote:
QOUTE :
The JREF just gave an intern the $5000 scolarship as a surprise. She had not even applied for it. James Randi was impressed with her during her internship duties and rewarded her the scholarship near the end of her internship....
Yeah, big deal. TamiO appears to get some of the details wrong (the other intern was given $1600, not $2000, and it was also a surprise), but she seems to only be upset that the original scholarship message implied an application process which may or may not have existed, at a time when - supposedly - JREF money was tight. It's her assumption that a formal process existed, and not a fact that one did. And Denise seems annoyed because MoeFaux was not a child, nor a "hardship case" (neither of which are required for a scholarship), and she felt - for some unknown reason - that her $100 donation was spent incorrectly.
None of this demonstrates that any crime has taken place, or even that anything unethical happened. All the "rules" change demonstrates is that the JREF felt it necessary to clarify the already-existing policy (which Linda confirmed before the change was made) that they can hand out scholarships to people who have not applied.
And neither the new "rules" nor the old forbade the JREF from giving scholarships to the family members of staff, either. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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latinijral
Banned
197 Posts |
Posted - 02/18/2005 : 13:00:15 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.
quote:
Originally posted by latinijral
Before the $5000 JREF schoolarship scandal :
[snip]
How the JREF changef the rules AFTER the $5000 MOE FAUX scoolarship scandal :
[snip]
They changed the rules.
That is a fact.
Okay. So what? These aren't even "rules," but instead a short description of the scholarship program. The original "rules" don't say anything about the JREF being forbidden from giving an intern a surprise scholarship. That they changed the public "rules" does not prove fraud.
So What? Why are you worried?
The original "rules" said : We invite student readers to send contributions, and we encourage instructors to bring student work to our attention.
I bet you know what outstanding "work" to skepticism did MoeFaux.
TheJREF is a Foundation that "works" with money of donations. They should be clear and transparent . They were not created to give "cash surprises" to strippers or to the son of the JREF director ( Hal Bidlack)
quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.
quote:
Originally posted by latinijral
QOUTE :
The JREF just gave an intern the $5000 scolarship as a surprise. She had not even applied for it. James Randi was impressed with her during her internship duties and rewarded her the scholarship near the end of her internship....
Yeah, big deal. TamiO appears to get some of the details wrong (the other intern was given $1600, not $2000, and it was also a surprise), but she seems to only be upset that the original scholarship message implied an application process which may or may not have existed, at a time when - supposedly - JREF money was tight. It's her assumption that a formal process existed, and not a fact that one did. And Denise seems annoyed because MoeFaux was not a child, nor a "hardship case" (neither of which are required for a scholarship), and she felt - for some unknown reason - that her $100 donation was spent incorrectly.
Do you know what unethical means? Do yout think all unethical procedures should be written in all rules ?
quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.
None of this demonstrates that any crime has taken place, or even that anything unethical happened. All the "rules" change demonstrates is that the JREF felt it necessary to clarify the already-existing policy (which Linda confirmed before the change was made) that they can hand out scholarships to people who have not applied.
And neither the new "rules" nor the old forbade the JREF from giving scholarships to the family members of staff, either.
Do you know what NEPOTISM is?
You seems to know all about the JREF moral . Then I encourage you to tell us what outstanding contributions to skepticism did those two schoolarship "winners".
I am waiting. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 02/18/2005 : 14:29:59 [Permalink]
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How is Randi's ethics of lack of them any skin off your nose? It's certainly none off mine.
latinijral, this fixation with Randi cannot be healthy. You need to get out more; meet new people. Go fishing; go to a really low-class gin-mill and get so drunk your lips flap like a paniced pelican; get laid on a golf course, at noon. Rassle an alligator or pick up a rattlesnake; send obscene e-mails to Bill O'Reilly and sign them 'Jeff Gannon' -- shit, do something before you end up in a place where lots of know-it-alls in white smocks look at you and go, "tsk-tsk-tsk."
As a friend, I advise.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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Paulos23
Skeptic Friend
USA
446 Posts |
Posted - 02/18/2005 : 14:40:42 [Permalink]
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I agree with Filthy here. Latinijral, you need to not take this so personally. If the JREF is corrupt, what can we do about as non-members of it?
One word, Nothing. |
You can go wrong by being too skeptical as readily as by being too trusting. -- Robert A. Heinlein
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. -- Aldous Huxley |
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Siberia
SFN Addict
Brazil
2322 Posts |
Posted - 02/18/2005 : 14:56:01 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by filthy
...get laid on a golf course, at noon.
Hey, that's an interesting idea...
A great sunday program, too. Must try that sometime. |
"Why are you afraid of something you're not even sure exists?"
- The Kovenant, Via Negativa
"People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs."
-- unknown
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard
USA
4907 Posts |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 02/18/2005 : 20:46:52 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by latinijral
So What? Why are you worried?
That's what I've been asking you.quote:
The original "rules" said : We invite student readers to send contributions, and we encourage instructors to bring student work to our attention.
And note that that sentence does not end with "and this is the only way we hand out scholarships."quote:
I bet you know what outstanding "work" to skepticism did MoeFaux.
Bet? $10,000? Pay up.quote:
TheJREF is a Foundation that "works" with money of donations. They should be clear and transparent .
I don't see where they haven't been clear. Linda certainly explained MoeFaux's scholarship in no uncertain terms.quote:
They were not created to give "cash surprises" to strippers or to the son of the JREF director ( Hal Bidlack)
What does MoeFaux's being an ex-stripper have to do with anything? And do you have any evidence that no other people besides Chris Bidlack were considered for a scholarship? After all, if he won it over others, on his merits, then it wasn't due to any nepotism, real or imagined. Or would I be correct in guessing that if the son of a high-school principal made honor roll, you would shout "nepotism" also, despite the kid's grades?quote:
Do you know what unethical means?
Absolutely.quote:
Do yout think all unethical procedures should be written in all rules ?
Well, considering there were no formal rules for the scholarships at all, and there still aren't, I don't know why you're asking me.quote:
Do you know what NEPOTISM is?
Yes, I do. Do you have any proof that Chris Bidlack received a scholarship?quote:
You seems to know all about the JREF moral .
Morals are different from ethics. I know nothing about the morals of the JREF.quote:
Then I encourage you to tell us what outstanding contributions to skepticism did those two schoolarship "winners".
I am waiting.
You still don't get it, do you? It's not up to me to prove that any "outstanding contributions" were made by anyone. And since the standard is subjective, it would be impossible for me to do so to your satisfaction, anyway. Of course, that's the point: whatever you're presented with, you would simply deem it "not outstanding" (regardless of what anyone else thinks) and continue spewing your vitriol.
Tell me, latinijral, what did the other scholarship winner (in the same year MoeFaux got hers) do which was an "outstanding contribution?" And why aren't you screaming about his scholarship, too? In fact, why don't you list all of the other JREF scholarship winners, and their contributions? |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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latinijral
Banned
197 Posts |
Posted - 02/20/2005 : 16:34:00 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Ricky 
latinijral isn't here to do anything about Randi. He isn't here to change anything at all. He isn't here to correct Randi or to make things right. He is pissed off at Randi for whatever reason (the most likely one being they ignored his friend's claim). He is simply on a smear campaign. He feels Randi did something to him and he wants to get Randi back.
But his lack of evidence and his logical fallacies are enough to make any skeptic weep. So there is really only one thing left I can do... ignore.
Hello Ricky:
You are acting as a believer....not as a real skeptic as we.
At least Dave have potential....you are so weak.
I am teaching you how to be a part of the new skepticism without chains with pseudoskeptics cults and leaders with a strange past.
Relax and get a life.
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Father of the new skepticism
Cuneiformist "But yeah, I'm sick of latinijral. And his "new "skepticism"! |
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latinijral
Banned
197 Posts |
Posted - 02/20/2005 : 18:05:46 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.
quote:
Originally posted by latinijral
I bet you know what outstanding "work" to skepticism did MoeFaux.
Bet? $10,000? Pay up.
That is the question you been refusing to respond for so long.
Just do it. Accepted.
quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.
quote:
Originally posted by latinijral
TheJREF is a Foundation that "works" with money of donations. They should be clear and transparent .
I don't see where they haven't been clear. Linda certainly explained MoeFaux's scholarship in no uncertain terms.
Of course , if you are still acting as a Linda's believer.
quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.
quote:
Originally posted by latinijral
They were not created to give "cash surprises" to strippers or to the son of the JREF director ( Hal Bidlack)
What does MoeFaux's being an ex-stripper have to do with anything? And do you have any evidence that no other people besides Chris Bidlack were considered for a scholarship? After all, if he won it over others, on his merits, then it wasn't due to any nepotism, real or imagined. Or would I be correct in guessing that if the son of a high-school principal made honor roll, you would shout "nepotism" also, despite the kid's grades?
On a school everybody is able to see the grades.
In the JREF is top secret.Nepotism and unethical.
quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.
quote:
Originally posted by latinijral
Do you know what unethical means?
Absolutely.quote:
Do yout think all unethical procedures should be written in all rules ?
Well, considering there were no formal rules for the scholarships at all, and there still aren't, I don't know why you're asking me.
Just beacuse it is not written it doesn't mean some things can become unethical. That is a fact.
quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.
quote:
Originally posted by latinijral
Do you know what NEPOTISM is?
Yes, I do. Do you have any proof that Chris Bidlack received a scholarship?
If you read the page I linked you will find it.
quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.
quote:
Originally posted by latinijral
You seems to know all about the JREF moral .
Morals are different from ethics. I know nothing about the morals of the JREF.
And nothing about the JREF ethics.
quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.
quote:
Originally posted by latinijral
Then I encourage you to tell us what outstanding contributions to skepticism did those two schoolarship "winners".
I am waiting.
You still don't get it, do you? It's not up to me to prove that any "outstanding contributions" were made by anyone. And since the standard is subjective, it would be impossible for me to do so to your satisfaction, anyway. Of course, that's the point: whatever you're presented with, you would simply deem it "not outstanding" (regardless of what anyone else thinks) and continue spewing your vitriol.
Tell me, latinijral, what did the other scholarship winner (in the same year MoeFaux got hers) do which was an "outstanding contribution?" And why aren't you screaming about his scholarship, too? In fact, why don't you list all of the other JREF scholarship winners, and their contributions?
You don't get it. I can not prove you the negative. It is the first principle you need to know if you pretend to be a skeptic. You have potential.
Tell me : what outstanding contributions to skepticism they made in order to recieve a cash schoolarship from the JREF? |
Father of the new skepticism
Cuneiformist "But yeah, I'm sick of latinijral. And his "new "skepticism"! |
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R.Wreck
SFN Regular
USA
1191 Posts |
Posted - 02/20/2005 : 18:07:29 [Permalink]
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What a waste of bandwidth! |
The foundation of morality is to . . . give up pretending to believe that for which there is no evidence, and repeating unintelligible propositions about things beyond the possibliities of knowledge.
T. H. Huxley
The Cattle Prod of Enlightened Compassion
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 02/20/2005 : 18:42:09 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by latinijral
quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.
quote:
Originally posted by latinijral
I bet you know what outstanding "work" to skepticism did MoeFaux.
Bet? $10,000? Pay up.
That is the question you been refusing to respond for so long.
Just do it. Accepted.
No, you bet me that I knew what MoeFaux did to earn her scholarship. I don't. I win the bet. Pay up.quote:
If you read the page I linked you will find it.
I searched the linked page for the word 'bidlack', but it doesn't appear there at all. Is it on another page? If so, which one?quote:
You don't get it. I can not prove you the negative.
Great, so you can't prove that MoeFaux did nothing "outstanding" to earn her scholarship. You can't prove your claims. Some "skeptic" you turned out to be.quote:
Tell me : what outstanding contributions to skepticism they made in order to recieve a cash schoolarship from the JREF?
You don't get it: I'm not claiming that they made any contributions to skepticism. All I've been doing is asking you to support your negative claims. And the fact that you refuse to even discuss scholarship winners other than MoeFaux and Bidlack tells me you've got no motivation for your claims but malice. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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