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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 02/12/2005 : 14:16:12
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I put this in humor 'cause I think it's funnier'n a square wheel at the roller derby.
It seems the tag team of Sarfati and Ham (sounds like a sleazy law firm) read a news article that bent a bowline-on-a-bight into the crotch of their collective knickers.
quote:
A “national embarrassment”
by Ken Ham and Dr. Jonathan Sarfati, AiG
February 12, 2005
In one of several recent salvos lobbed by the secular media at AiG–USA and its future Creation Museum, a commentary on the online news service of USA Today (an American national newspaper) declared last week (February 4) that the museum near Cincinnati, Ohio, USA is a “national embarrassment.”
The USATODAY.com commentator also stated or implied that people who believe creation and reject evolution are “gullible,” “ignorant,” of “low intelligence” and tell “lies.”
The author, Andrew Kantor, is just one of many secular journalists recently who has openly attacked creationists/Christians in a mocking and snide way, using ad hominem arguments and fear tactics. Kantor's attack is just another attempt (and a quite feeble one, as we will show) to undermine the Bible's credibility and the Christian faith as a whole. The author, by the way, describes himself as a “technology writer, pundit, and know-it-all who covers technology for the Roanoke [Virginia, USA] Times.”
Here is our summary of some of the illogical content that can be found in his commentary: evolution (molecules-to-man) is fact and is science; if one doesn't believe evolution, one has rejected science; technology is built on good science; not believing evolution means one can never develop technology; so, if students aren't taught molecules-to-man evolution as fact, or that dinosaurs lived millions of years before people, then the world is doomed.
It continues on, listing a whole scad of scientists believing in YEC that I'm too lazy to research, but if I were not, I'd probably find so much out of context, and so many straw men, that I would regret even starting.
I have got to go see that museum. AiG is so defenisive of it that it must truly be a monument to ignorance, spectacular beyond compare.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard
USA
4907 Posts |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
 Posted - 02/12/2005 : 18:06:13 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Ricky
They also have this list, but I'm not even going to attempt to look into that.
Is anyone of them named Steve? |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 02/13/2005 : 00:35:54 [Permalink]
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I looked at a couple of names randomly.
Nothing on Google except her mention on the list:
Dr Kimberly Berrine, Microbiology & Immunology
Dr Thomas Barnes,University of Texas at El Paso, deceased. He was the head of some creation research group.
Dr Harold Coffin
Two out of three did seem to be legit scientists that were also apparently dedicated Bible believers. It doesn't make their science legitimate. The page Coffin's info is on has some nonsense about creation and evolution at the bottom.
The first bio I looked at that was linked from the AiG page to another AiG page had some anecdote about how the guy was born again then decided when his wife suggested it to him that God made genetics as is all at once. That's the guy's 'proof'. |
| Edited by - beskeptigal on 02/13/2005 00:37:05 |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 02/13/2005 : 03:42:53 [Permalink]
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AiG sets great store by people holding doctorates, whether their field has anything to do with the biological sciences or not; whether they research in their fields or not; whether they are named 'Steve' or not. Sarfati himself holds a PhD in chemestry and Carl Weyland is an MD., but neither have published in the journals nor worked in their fields in many years. A few esoteric letters behind a name does not a scientist make.
quote:
The evidence for dinosaurs living more recently has nothing to do with any parallel with petrified wood. Rather, one strong support for a younger age is the presence of red blood cells and sizable hemoglobin fragments in T. rex bones (see Sensational dinosaur blood report! and reply to critic) and Identification of proteinaceous material in the bone of the dinosaur Iguanodon “dated” to 120 million years old (Connect Tissue Res. 2003; 44 Suppl 1:41–6.).
TO has the full story on this, by Dr. Gary Hurd and it's worth a read. AiG blew a molehill into a mountain as did ICR. They ended up gibbering about 'unfossilized dinosaur bone.'
quote:
Kantor's demonizing doesn't stop there. In his view, if you want your student to be a scientist, then do not take him to the Creation Museum. In referring to AiG's future museum, Kantor states: “Worse, every kid whose parents take him to places like that [the Creation Museum] can probably be scratched from the list of ‘America's future scientists.'”
I must disagree. By all means, take the kid and show him/her exactly what nonsense AiG passes off as science.
quote:
Of course, since TDP is proof that oil can form rapidly, it logically follows that there is no need for millions of years to form oil in the earth either, provided the conditions are right!
Which signifies what, exactly?
quote:
Recently an activist judge ruled that the school board in Cobb County, Georgia, USA, had to remove a sticker that had been placed in public school biology texts (see The sticker didn't stick). That sticker stated
This textbook contains material on evolution. Evolution is a theory, not a fact, regarding the origin of living things. This material should be approached with an open mind, studied carefully and critically considered.
Of course, evolutionists don't want their viewpoint challenged at all. The leading atheistic anti-creationist Eugenie Scott even admitted as much:
In my opinion, using creation and evolution as topics for critical-thinking exercises in primary and secondary schools is virtually guaranteed to confuse students about evolution and may lead them to reject one of the major themes in science [cited in Where Darwin Meets the Bible—by anti-creationist Larry Witham, Oxford University Press, 2002].
So let's not let kids learn there are problems with evolution, because they might end up not believing it! Then they could no longer be “intellectually fulfilled atheists,” to cite atheistic evolutionist Richard Dawkins.
Oh, cry me a river!
quote:
It is true that the Creation Museum is going to be one of those “national embar |
"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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| Edited by - filthy on 02/13/2005 04:23:23 |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 02/13/2005 : 12:23:05 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.
quote:
Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
Is anyone of them named Steve?
Four of them, by my count.
Less than 1% compared to The Steve Project. (they passed 500 a few months ago)
For those new to Skeptic Friends Network, or skepticism, and especially "The Steve Project", who may ask "Who is this Steve?"
Explanation:
Several creationist organisations like The Discovery Institute, Institution for Creational Research, and Answers In Genesis seem believe that the validity of a scientific theory is represented by the number of scientist that subscribes to it. For that, they have compiled lists of scientists who subscribe to creationism, in order to lend a false sense of credibility to creationism. Several of the names of these lists are people who are experts in fields unrelated to the theory of biological evolution, but they fail to see why their opinion shouldn't count none the less...
To make a parody of these lists, National Center for Science Education made a list of their own. But since there are so many more scientists, they decided to collect signatures from only people named Steve (in honour of Steven Gould). Read more here.
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Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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Wendy
SFN Regular
USA
614 Posts |
Posted - 02/13/2005 : 12:45:59 [Permalink]
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I notice no opening date has been set. This place is only a couple of hours away from me. Maybe I'll make the trip with the kids this summer if they're open by then. Should be a hoot!
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Millions long for immortality who don't know what to do on a rainy afternoon.
-- Susan Ertz
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Starman
SFN Regular
Sweden
1613 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2005 : 03:00:54 [Permalink]
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quote:
A “national embarrassment”
by Ken Ham and Dr. Jonathan Sarfati, AiG
The USATODAY.com commentator also stated or implied that people who believe creation and reject evolution are “gullible,” “ignorant,” of “low intelligence” and tell “lies.”
Change the and to an or and the journalist is right on the money.
Ham and Sarfati are good examples of the last one.
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"Any religion that makes a form of torture into an icon that they worship seems to me a pretty sick sort of religion quite honestly"
-- Terry Jones |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2005 : 04:27:21 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Wendy
I notice no opening date has been set. This place is only a couple of hours away from me. Maybe I'll make the trip with the kids this summer if they're open by then. Should be a hoot!
If my money gets right, I'm planning on it. I've been invited to the Rattlesnake Museum in New Mexico and have wanted to go for some time. AiG's Little Shop of Humbug would make an interesting side venture that would not be terribly far out of route. With a little luck, I'll be healthy enough to do it by motorcycle -- a project bike has finally come together, almost, after 9 years in the rebuilding (mainly due to lack time, then lack of $$$), and I want to ride it!
I'll probably go in early Fall and take 3 weeks or more for the round trip, as I doubt if I'll be able to make more than a few hundred miles a day without resorting to Oxyodone (I hate that shit!). But, we shall see....
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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