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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
 Posted - 03/21/2005 : 05:45:48 [Permalink]
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Well, Randal Terry should watch himself down here in FL. Floridians are known to shoot people that attack them.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Renae
SFN Regular
543 Posts |
Posted - 03/21/2005 : 06:03:48 [Permalink]
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Somebody please tell me this isn't really happening. That Bush didn't really say we have a "culture of life" while killing Iraqui and US soldiers and chortling over the number of people he executed while governor of Texas. That the righteous numbnutses in congress really didn't have a special session to legislate away Terri's husband's wishes and use a vegetative woman as a political football.
Please tell me that America's hypocrisy and bullshit meter will register this parade of repugnant nonsense and generate appropriate levels of outrage.
Please? |
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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard
3192 Posts |
Posted - 03/21/2005 : 06:29:43 [Permalink]
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| Sorry, if you hadnt noticed, the idiots are in charge of the world and that leads to such problems. Better get used to it. |
"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History
"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini |
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belt
New Member
USA
17 Posts |
Posted - 03/21/2005 : 07:18:23 [Permalink]
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Man....if you really believe in Heaven, which do you think that Terri would choose? This PVS, or total happiness in heaven?
Better yet, if you believe she has a soul, aren't these people basically condemning her (what I can only imagine is a healthy) soul to a broken body that has no hope of recovery?
Sounds like, if you are of religious/spiritual persuasion you would want to do what's best for HER soul, not the emotions of her parents. |
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belt
New Member
USA
17 Posts |
Posted - 03/21/2005 : 07:20:46 [Permalink]
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Also,
MSNBC had a poll asking whether the govt should get involved in the schiavo case. 62% against them being involved and 28% for.
at the time I looked it had 156,000 votes cast. Obviously it's not scientific, as plenty of people could be screwing with the system but....I don't know. just thought I'd share. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 03/21/2005 : 08:00:42 [Permalink]
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| Isn't it the Republicans who argue for States' rights, typically? This is a clear usurpation of the rights of a State, and also of judicial power (by the legislative and executive branches). The hypocrisy on the part of everyone in Congress (and President Bush) who has complained about activist judges is overwhelming. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Siberia
SFN Addict
Brazil
2322 Posts |
Posted - 03/21/2005 : 08:40:46 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by belt
Man....if you really believe in Heaven, which do you think that Terri would choose? This PVS, or total happiness in heaven?
Better yet, if you believe she has a soul, aren't these people basically condemning her (what I can only imagine is a healthy) soul to a broken body that has no hope of recovery?
Sounds like, if you are of religious/spiritual persuasion you would want to do what's best for HER soul, not the emotions of her parents.
Not if they thought she was going to eternal damnation, instead of Heaven. |
"Why are you afraid of something you're not even sure exists?"
- The Kovenant, Via Negativa
"People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs."
-- unknown
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belt
New Member
USA
17 Posts |
Posted - 03/21/2005 : 09:37:15 [Permalink]
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| But then....if she were going to eternal damnation...why would they want to keep her alive? |
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Wendy
SFN Regular
USA
614 Posts |
Posted - 03/21/2005 : 09:44:49 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by belt
Man....if you really believe in Heaven, which do you think that Terri would choose? This PVS, or total happiness in heaven?
quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.
Isn't it the Republicans who argue for States' rights, typically? This is a clear usurpation of the rights of a State, and also of judicial power (by the legislative and executive branches).
These are the two points I logged in to make, but as often happens, someone said it better (and sooner) than I could.
I'll just say amen.
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Millions long for immortality who don't know what to do on a rainy afternoon.
-- Susan Ertz
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thetrue
New Member
9 Posts |
Posted - 03/21/2005 : 10:48:58 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by beskeptigal
Terri doesn't eat or drink
She doesn't eat or drink because Michael Schiavo will not allow her to. He will not even allow a test to verify that she can. There is a nurse who has given a recent affidavit claiming that Terri had been fed by her by mouth previously. Michael has consistently decided against any rehabilitative attempts. Bottom line is that Michael does not want her to and will not allow her to.
Her family has always wanted to try to help her and has always wanted to try to offer her rehabilitative care. Over the years Michael has successfully prevented it. Her family is willing to care for her. He is not. He could divorce his wife and allow her family, who still cherishes her light and life, to care for her offer her a chance at rehabilitation. Yet he still refuses.
Miracles can and do happen. Google coma and persistent vegetative state recoverers and you'll find that it happens. A woman in a two decade long coma recently awoke, asked questions, and requested food and drink. The physicians were astounded. The brain is a marvelous organ. Experts are still astounded even in this day and age. No one claims to have all the answers. No one claims to know all there is to know about neurological functioning. How about erring on the side of a chance? How about allowing the chance for rehabiliation? Let's see what gains could be made. Experts could again be astounded.
And astounded or not, miracles or not...Terri has a family that is committed to loving her, caring for her and feeding her as she is. It is amazingly unselfish and beautiful, and in my opinion that is a miracle in and of itself.
"my power is made perfect in weakness" |
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pfretzschner
Skeptic Friend
USA
67 Posts |
Posted - 03/21/2005 : 10:59:46 [Permalink]
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Thetrue: how convenient for you that that there are such clear distinctions between good and evil in this case. Michael Schiavo: bad! Parents: good!
Terri Schiavo is dead. The decision to let her body die rests with her husband. NOT with her parents. NOT with the federal government. And certainly not with you. |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 03/21/2005 : 11:03:56 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by thetrue
quote:
Originally posted by beskeptigal
Terri doesn't eat or drink
She doesn't eat or drink because Michael Schiavo will not allow her to. He will not even allow a test to verify that she can.
All information I have indicates that this statement is untrue. Michael tried every way possible to help her. He only sought to terminate her life based on medical evidence that she will not reasonably or even likely recover.
quote:
There is a nurse who has given a recent affidavit claiming that Terri had been fed by her by mouth previously.
Every time Terri's feeding tube is removed, someone miraculously sees such a thing, but not under the direct supervision of normal medical staff.
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Michael has consistently decided against any rehabilitative attempts. Bottom line is that Michael does not want her to and will not allow her to.
The evidence of his actions prior to him seeking her removal from life saving equipment does not bear out your accusation. Please provide proof of your claim.
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Her family has always wanted to try to help her and has always wanted to try to offer her rehabilitative care. Over the years Michael has successfully prevented it.
It is the legal responsibility of the spouse to direct medical care for an incapacitated spouse. That is the law by which the parents are stuck.
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Her family is willing to care for her. He is not.
I see. So this is why he continues to pay for care and any reasonable therapy.
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He could divorce his wife and allow her family, who still cherishes her light and life, to care for her offer her a chance at rehabilitation. Yet he still refuses.
No, he can't. Florida law does not allow for divorces where one of the parties are incapacitated. Her family has offered to take over financial responsibility for her care, but fail to mention that if they renege on that agreement, Michael is back on the hook for it.
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Miracles can and do happen. Google coma and persistent vegetative state recoverers and you'll find that it happens. A woman in a two decade long coma recently awoke, asked questions, and requested food and drink.
Coma, yes. Persistant Vegetative States, no. Provide proof for your assertation on PVS.
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The physicians were astounded. The brain is a marvelous organ. Experts are still astounded even in this day and age. No one claims to have all the answers. No one claims to know all there is to know about neurological functioning. How about erring on the side of a chance? How about allowing the chance for rehabiliation? Let's see what gains could be made. Experts could again be astounded.
And astounded or not, miracles or not...Terri has a family that is committed to loving her, caring for her and feeding her as she is. It is amazingly unselfish and beautiful, and in my opinion that is a miracle in and of itself.
"my power is made perfect in weakness"
And this is justification to ignore state rulings and commit a vile abridgement of seperation of powers by the US Congress? The parents of Terri have consistantly lost appeals concerning who should direct care and lost investigations of abuse. They finally have run out of state options and it takes Congress coming out with a law, which if allowed to stand, can be used as a basis to remove the direction of medical care from spouses and family members to the government. The direction within the law indicates that the federal courts may not use any state ruling as basis for their decision. Clear seperation of powers violation there.
The shell is empty. A great majority of medical opinion says so. Let it go. |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
| Edited by - Valiant Dancer on 03/21/2005 11:05:11 |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 03/21/2005 : 12:00:54 [Permalink]
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I have made an assertion concerning the seperation violation of this new legislation. I feel that since this is a positive claim, I should support it with a source.
Source: Text of S686 passed early this morning.
SEC. 2. PROCEDURE.
Any parent of Theresa Marie Schiavo shall have standing to bring a suit under this Act. The suit may be brought against any other person who was a party to State court proceedings relating to the withholding or withdrawal of food, fluids, or medical treatment necessary to sustain the life of Theresa Marie Schiavo, or who may act pursuant to a State court order authorizing or directing the withholding or withdrawal of food, fluids, or medical treatment necessary to sustain her life. In such a suit, the District Court shall determine de novo any claim of a violation of any right of Theresa Marie Schiavo within the scope of this Act, notwithstanding any prior State court determination and regardless of whether such a claim has previously been raised, considered, or decided in State court proceedings. The District Court shall entertain and determine the suit without any delay or abstention in favor of State court proceedings, and regardless of whether remedies available in the State courts have been exhausted.
Emphasis mine.
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/D?c109:1:./temp/~c109O7ePbL::
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Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 03/21/2005 : 12:09:51 [Permalink]
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The new legislation is worse than I'd imagined:In such a suit, the District Court shall determine de novo any claim of a violation of any right of Theresa Marie Schiavo within the scope of this Act, notwithstanding any prior State court determination and regardless of whether such a claim has previously been raised, considered, or decided in State court proceedings. In other words: "forget what the State courts have decided, this is now a Federal matter, and Federal judges will re-hear everything."
And how often is it that Congress considers bills which protect a single person, by name? |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 03/21/2005 : 12:15:43 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.
The new legislation is worse than I'd imagined:In such a suit, the District Court shall determine de novo any claim of a violation of any right of Theresa Marie Schiavo within the scope of this Act, notwithstanding any prior State court determination and regardless of whether such a claim has previously been raised, considered, or decided in State court proceedings. In other words: "forget what the State courts have decided, this is now a Federal matter, and Federal judges will re-hear everything."
And how often is it that Congress considers bills which protect a single person, by name?
It also commands that the District court must rule on this and not abstain from it. |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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